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Jason181 · Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:32 pm

tanker27 wrote:
BAH, Really. Please cite the LAW in its fullest.

And this Just in case you THINK you know the law.

Thanks for the very informative post.

I.S.T. · Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:38 pm

l33t-g4m3r wrote:
Steam blatantly price gouges

I'm sorry, what?

bthylafh · Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:53 pm

TurtlePerson2 wrote:
By the way, were you the one who started the anti-Steam troll thread a few months back? I want to make sure that I'm actually participating in a discussion and not just feeding a troll.

I don't think he's a troll per se, just a member of the tinfoil hat brigade with a questionable grip on reality.

Airmantharp · Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:17 pm

I.S.T. wrote:
l33t-g4m3r wrote:
Steam blatantly price gouges

I'm sorry, what?

I've never seen the magnitude of deals like what I've seen on Steam. Imagine if Gamestop was still in charge?

Chrispy_ · Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:57 am

What you want doesn't exist anymore. Not for big budget titles anyway.

Glorious · Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:42 am

l33t-g4m3r wrote:
Also, retail boxes that sell games with steam are illegal. That violates the first-sale doctrine

You keep saying that phrase, I do not think you know what it means.

For the billionth time, you ignorant savages, the First Sale doctrine is not a positive right. It is an AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE.

It means you cannot be successfully sued for copyright violation when reselling legally-purchased copies of a work. That's it.

It is not the inherent and natural right of man to be physically able to resell a work. It is merely legal immunity if you actually do.

(and, of course, steam is a service. You clown).

tanker27 · Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:55 am

LOL, Glorious......the words positive right and affirmative defense are complex. Most people couldnt even begin to articulate what they mean.

Firestarter · Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:59 am

thegleek wrote:
Firestarter wrote:
Get something like Keepass

Been using that for years. Best password management utility. ever.

Firestarter wrote:
store your password database on Dropbox and change all your passwords for great justice!

Now, THAT doesn't sound good to me at all. I would -never- trust anything I have to be stored with dropbox, or any public storage cloud. Even if the db file is encrypted.

You must not quite understand the encryption that keepass uses then. If you have a decent passphrase, there's a snowballs' chance in hell that anyone can get to your passwords, given the password database. You'd sooner get your password jacked by a keylogger (in which case they have your database regardless of whether you use dropbox). Of course you'd have to take action when dropbox gets dumped on a torrent or when a flaw is found in whatever algorythm keepass uses, but even then you can probably take it easy and wait a few months.

I say put it on dropbox because it's far more secure than something less convenient that doesn't get used. It's also ridiculously more secure than trying to remember the passwords that you use.

/offtopic

l33t-g4m3r · Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:17 am

Glorious wrote:
It is not the inherent and natural right of man to be physically able to resell a work.

Right, the old we don't own what we pay for bull. Then screw it. Nobody pay for anything, pirate it all. No sense handing money over for something you don't own. It's either yours to resell, or you shouldn't have paid for it.

Most people couldnt even begin to articulate what they mean.

Easy. They're fancy words that mean you're a douche who doesn't believe in rights. Take a hike, Glorious.
PS. I know what you're trying to say, and I don't care. It's all lies and propaganda that mega-corps had bribed into law. Half this stuff didn't exist 10-15 years ago. Remember, an unjust law is no law at all.

tanker27 · Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:40 am

Someone fails to understand first-sale doctrine does not apply to software. And fails to recognize the courts that back it up.

l33t-g4m3r · Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:29 am

tanker27 wrote:
Someone fails to understand first-sale doctrine does not apply to software. And fails to recognize the courts that back it up.

That would be you.

Some software publishers claim in their End User License Agreements (EULA) that their software is licensed, not sold, thus the first-sale doctrine does not apply to their works. Courts have contradicted. Bauer & Cie. v. O'Donnell and Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus are two related Supreme Court cases.

Federal district courts in California and Texas have issued decisions applying the doctrine of first sale for bundled computer software in Softman v. Adobe (2001) and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc. (2000) even if the software contains an EULA prohibiting resale. In the Softman case, after purchasing bundled software (a box containing many programs that are also available individually) from Adobe Systems, Softman unbundled it and then resold the component programs. The court ruled that Softman could resell the bundled software, no matter what the EULA stipulates, because Softman had never assented to the EULA. Specifically, the ruling decreed that software purchases be treated as sales transactions, rather than explicit license agreements. In other words, the court ruled that California consumers should have the same rights they would enjoy under existing copyright legislation when buying a CD or a book.

Sure, it may seem like a "grey" area since cases have gone both ways, but the only reason it is so, is because there was a lack of morality, and greed prevailed.

tanker27 · Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:39 pm

So whats that prove? I showed a court ruling for and you showed be a snippet of one (failing to even provide a link to the full ruling so I am cautious to accept your quotes at face value) for against. I guess its an epeen war now.

Personally I would rather have a law against the resale of software that way the real developers and artists can get their share (what little they get after the publishers dig their grubby hands in) and keep making their goods.

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:01 pm

And if we go much further down this line, the black talon of R&P will reach out and snatch this topic away.

Thanks for listening.

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