Console vs. gaming PC

How we justify all that high-dollar hardware.

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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:55 pm

Vrock wrote:on physical format

Are you insisting on physical media out of legal concerns or something else?
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:52 pm

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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:11 pm

It is possible to argue forever about why one person prefers consoles, while another, PCs for gaming. However, they do both have advantages and disadvantages. Seems like most of the discrepancy arises as the disadvantages for one might not be a big deal for another. Who would have thought that all people are not identical and therefore have different priorities and perspectives? Perhaps breaking it down into categories may help add some clarity? Doubtful, but here goes all the same:

Convenience
Even here we need to be careful about what sort of convenience we are talking about. As far as actually getting a game up and running and playing said games, generally consoles are much more convenient. You power on, insert media and play. Even multiplayer is much more convenient, particularly on the Xbox - though some may gripe about payment model and level of service MS offers. A service like Xbox live allows you to more easily connect with new players as it requires little to no pre-game configuration and planning – an experience which is perhaps not as ubiquitous on the PC.

For actually acquiring games, services such as Steam has probably tipped the scales in favor of PC gaming here. However, once downloaded, there are still potential (though infrequent for the most part) headaches with installation, and perhaps most problematic, dealing with DRM when installing and playing. Therefore, despite Steam and its copycats, PCs get no love here.

Convenience is a huge issue as this is what probably dictates whether the majority of users will actually continue to game, and all importantly for those that finance the industry, buy games. It’s consoles by a landslide for this one.

Console: 1, PC: 0

Gaming Experience
Unless on the cusp of “Next-Gen” console releases, PCs will always have the advantage here as they will be technologically superior and thereby provide a more immersive experience. However, to some, the ability to game with higher resolution textures and fancy graphics post processing just isn’t a huge deal.

In counterpoint for consoles, a well integrated multiplayer platform (again, such as Xbox live) can go a long way to improve the gaming experience itself, beyond just being more convenient. However, as I don’t normally play a lot of multiplayer games, I’m not the best person to judge this aspect and perhaps most of the more popular recent PC releases have had little or no shortcomings on the multiplayer side.

It also depends somewhat on what type of games are played, due largely to the type of input devices used (keyboard and mouse vs gamepad). However, with the availability to use controllers like the Xbox’s gamepad on the PC, I think currently the PC has a slight advantage here, as, as far as I know, no console truly supports gaming using a keyboard and mouse. I have the feeling that the next generation of consoles will be much more input agnostic, but we’ll have to wait and see. In summary, PCs get the majority of accolades here.

Console: 0.25, PC: 0.75


Backwards Compatibility and Flexibility
This one is simple. Because PCs are inherently more configurable, they are much more flexible. This results in being able to support a vaster array of input devices, as well as output devices. For example, I currently have a PC connected to both an HDTV and a monitor, that I can switch between at the click of a mouse, depending if I want to game at my desk or on the couch. Yes, it may require a few headaches to successfully get an old legacy DOS game to run on Win 7, but with a little time/tenacity, it can be done. How conveniently isn’t the issue this time. PCs also support emulation of older consoles.

Perhaps most importantly is that you can actually use PCs as computers! (Shocking, isn’t it?) While consoles have the hardware/potential to offer much less restricted net-top functionality, etc, with the exception of a pretty lackluster browser in the PS3 and a few 3rd party apps (ie, Netflix), they basically don’t and are restrictive to homebrew implementation. Therefore it’s PCs all the way here.

Console: 0, PC: 1

Value or Bang for Buck
This one is really difficult to answer as it depends on individual perspectives on valuation. For example, while most would, at first glance, declare PC gaming to be more expensive (and therefore less bang/buck) due to the initial hardware investment requirement of a PC. However, it has been astutely pointed out in this thread that most people would have a desktop anyway (at least TR forum members). For some this is valid, yet as laptops increasingly play the role of primary PCs in households, for many, simply upgrading a videocard/PSU or whatever in a current PC isn’t a possibility. Consoles definitely come out ahead here for most people as the initial investment is generally less for a console than for a gaming PC, even at console launch.

I would argue that PC games have a slight edge in price and tend to go on sale more quickly after release, though when first released popular games are often just as expensive as their console counterparts. However, as PC games still seem to be slightly cheaper across the board, they get an edge here.

Furthermore, PCs offer way more functionality as a media device, which, together with having somewhat cheaper games on average, brings a bit of recognition in this category. Due largely to the lower initial investment, however, consoles come out ahead here.

Console: 0.75, PC: 0.25


Are there relevant issues that I ignored? Probably. Do the four categories I’ve summarized deserve to be weighted equally? Probably not. But until someone conducts pilot surveys among various gamers to determine which issues are most relevant, followed by subsequent surveys in gamer populations with cross-validation to ensure that said survey questions are really getting at the constructs intended, this will have to do.

Adding up the scores we have consoles and PCs at 2 a piece. Ahh! A tie! (Who saw that coming?)

Now we can finally put this silly debate to rest and live in a world where both PC enthusiasts and console-philes can live in harmony. You’re all welcome.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:49 pm

but you like Vrock only see what you want to see and are as incapable of having this discussion.

Pure nonsense. I see what you write, and what you write doesn't make any sense. The incapability is yours, Mr. Bad Example.

I don't care

You most certainly do, else you wouldn't be posting here. More dishonesty.

it's personal choice

Just like the personal choice whether one follows hardware trends or not, thus determining whether they can rapidly select the components necessary for a good many of the PC-faithful's arguments to hold any water.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:44 am

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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:12 pm

End User wrote:
Vrock wrote:on physical format

Are you insisting on physical media out of legal concerns or something else?

Physical media provides the highest quality, legal content available.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:23 pm

I think we can all agree that the PC would always win by a long shot if they had better support as a gaming platform from the companies that matter most. Microsoft itself has acknowledged that they've been failing at this for a long time now.

The only other console advantage I see is the ability to rent games, but even that is fading with digital downloads growing in popularity and consoles coming with bigger hard drives. In fact, cloud gaming is rendering even this argument obsolete.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:27 pm

Vrock wrote:
End User wrote:
Vrock wrote:on physical format

Are you insisting on physical media out of legal concerns or something else?

Physical media provides the highest quality, legal content available.


Definitely agree with this.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:44 pm

I think we can all agree that the PC would always win by a long shot if they had better support as a gaming platform from the companies that matter most. Microsoft itself has acknowledged that they've been failing at this for a long time now.

Conversely, I'd make the argument that by making Direct X at all, back in the day, Microsoft gave PC's a major shot in the arm which probably contributed to its meteoric rise in the '90s... a rapid inflation that probably spurred on the hype-driven marketing machines, gave us Daikatana, and fostered the mentality at 3D Realms that caused the delays of Duke Nukem Forever. Remember, Valve was an upstart when they released Half-Life, and it caught the big established cats by surprise.

That's why I keep going back to the '90s and PC gaming's heyday: There are problems associated with an industry's rapid growth, with most of those problems revolving around such themes as "losing your roots" or "becoming superficial" or "rushing to meet deadlines". Amongst all this nonsense we had some absolute gems, and it's gotten to the point that it's easier to remember the gems than the nonsense because the nonsense is still with us.

Anyway, the overall point is that if the focus of the market suddenly shifted back to PC's primarily, for both gamers and developers, we'd just witness adjustments to the different sides of a list of pros and cons; but the baggage would still be there, all the mess and corporate-think that revolves around any big-money operation. I don't think market focus will shift back to PC's "primarily", but the PC market has done an excellent job of adapting to the changing conditions and becoming more accessible and stable, for the most part, and I don't think it's ever going to disappear ("Where there's processing cycles, there will be games", as I've always said). I just think aforementioned big-money operations will prefer to focus where they perceive greater market control.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:03 pm

Vrock wrote:With enough time, money, tweaking, and desire, a PC can do anything a console can do, and do it better, I absolutely don't dispute that. You PC guys seem to think you're scoring a point by saying that, but in reality all it shows is how much you really miss the point of consoles to begin with.


I don't mean this in a snide way as I play console but I personally believe consoles have missed the point of consoles if you get my drift.

The nintendo wii has formatting issues and nintendo publicly declares it doesn't care if it works on all or even most TV's properly, the xbox 360 requires you pay extra(live gold) to unlock the abiltiy to pay extra(On disk DLC) to unlock the abiltiy to pay extra(regular DLC and content updates) for the 60 dollar game you bought, meanwhile my ps3 allows people to access my credit card account and steel my information.

I personally agree with the idea of a fluid streamlined direct minamalistic system. I personally feel like we haven't seen a product like that since the gamecube and I don't expect to. How are friend codes easier than matchmaking on steam? I feel like atleast I know what I'm getting with the fragmented but target services on a pc these days but I honestly don't know what I'm doing with my console, I pay 60 or is it 80 a year now for an ADD SUPPORTED xbox live account(Why am I the only one who thinks that is the most ridiculous thing since cable bills plus commercials).

End of the day the STUPID consumer that consoles are supposed to be target at don't have to be simple, streamlined, price competative, functional, safe or any of that stuff. Those Gits that lead the pack just have to think it is. Microsoft cracked this a long time ago, marketing can cover up a poorly run business or sell a horrible product and bring it success any day of the week. Just reflect on the near 100 percent failure rate of the xbox. I ask you how many people that you know with xboxes more than 2 years old have not had it red ring? In most other industries that is grounds for a recall. Every Every Every person I know with an xbox older than 2 years has gotten the red ring and is on box 2 or 3. Doesn't matter xboxes are selling better than ever, Mr IQ 85 still runs out to get it on sale at walmart on black Friday.

I appreciate what xbox live did for online last gen but it has not appreciably improved in any way but rather had monetized every aspect of the experience without adding appreciable value. Mean while I know what I deal with when on amazon, steam, or some other online content provider for PC. Playing games will never be as simple as just playing games ever again, except maybe on handhelds and your phone for the next couple years till they goof that up too.

I play all platforms and I prefer pc, I like the games on the consoles this is why I promote both based on software. I don't hate the boxes but I don't think they are what others think they are. Its like the mac conundrum, mac's just work... lol yeah but they don't do 2/3 or what I can on my pc in an efficient or functional way lol. Its easy to just work when you don't really do anything if you get what I mean. Its like saying motorcycles are the future of transportation because they have good mileage when there is just more that goes into vehicles than mileage, and has been for a long time. Novelty has a cost, people act like it doesn't... the question is the novelty even there to begin with?
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:08 pm

That's not what I wrote. You have mis-attributed Vrock's crusade against PC gaming to me.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:27 pm

End of the day the STUPID consumer that consoles are supposed to be target at don't have to be simple, streamlined, price competative, functional, safe or any of that stuff

I completely disagree. I think all three consoles are far more simple, streamlined, price competitive, and functional compared to PC's. I don't know what you meant by "safe", but I assure you that a console will never molest your kids, attack your wife, or steal your beer.

EDIT:

Just reflect on the near 100 percent failure rate of the xbox.

Oh, I see: Drama Queen.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:14 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:That's not what I wrote. You have mis-attributed Vrock's crusade against PC gaming to me.


LOL, can't find the quote anymore someone might have edited it heck I might have goofed when paring down the post. :roll:

Any rate I was agreeing with the romantic notion but disagreeing with the reality. I don't know what kinda online experience you like but very few console games have decent ones. There are several design and technical reasons for this, yet others claim the opposite. For me it isn't a objective thing, P2P the premier form of matchmaking and server hosting on consoles is clunky full of drop outs lag and potty mouthed aggression because there is no server, no admin, no online community outside your party, no consumer power to meanfully effect their own online experience or seak justice for wrong doings. They have several xbox live admin related options that are slow to act if ever, If I report someone for a fair reason I never get the satisfaction of knowing I've done anything after having to put up or deal with someone. There is a much more cathartic griefing and admin discipline system in place on pc not to mention dedicated flipping servers. People will argue pc has DRM, I would agree and point out consoles have online passes and DRM of their own. Play assassins creed on consoles recently, how about an EA game?

SPOOFE wrote:I completely disagree. I think all three consoles are far more simple, streamlined, price competitive, and functional compared to PC's. I don't know what you meant by "safe", but I assure you that a console will never molest your kids, attack your wife, or steal your beer.


Safe as in online spaces are not regulated well, its more a wild west that PC for me, see my above statements. :P

I don't want to paint one platform as definitively better than the other just the reality that none are really better. I have MANY reasons for preferring PC but those are my reasons probably not yours. I play my pc on a 60 inch 1080p plasma, doubt most on here do that, When putting pc right next to console on the same audio video setup it becomes a simple "PC is better" experience for me with cross platform games. Heck even games I don't like like COD I actually sort of like on pc because of the community. This is all subjective. I understand most don't do this, they compare sitting at a desk in a work like scenario to relaxing on the couch with the kids/family/friends/whatever and taking it easy. I find it faster and easier to look up stuff on netflix with my pc... I mean I can go on but my pc experience is better... just is. Still love my ps3 and Begrudgingly have a 3rd 360, oh and that white thing that only has wide screen format for like 2/3 of its games... yeah the wii. And guess what I complain about the wii but I still love smash so there.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:17 pm

kamikaziechameleon wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:That's not what I wrote. You have mis-attributed Vrock's crusade against PC gaming to me.

LOL, can't find the quote anymore someone might have edited it heck I might have goofed when paring down the post. :roll:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=79074&start=90#p1104181
:-?
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:21 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
kamikaziechameleon wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:That's not what I wrote. You have mis-attributed Vrock's crusade against PC gaming to me.

LOL, can't find the quote anymore someone might have edited it heck I might have goofed when paring down the post. :roll:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=79074&start=90#p1104181
:-?


Sorry fixed it, lol. Man that was embarassing. No hard feelings right :)
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:03 pm

I don't want to paint one platform as definitively better than the other

But you DO want to call people "stupid consumers" and "gits". Come on. As if there aren't morons in any large population. :)

I just don't understand that "blame the consoles" mentality. It's all one market. "Games". That's the market. Sure, you can split it up into numerous sub-categories, but I can't stress enough: Pretty much every negative thing to be said about consoles is a result of "popularity", not form factor, and pretty much every point has an analogue from the days when PC gaming was king. If PC gaming was king again, we'd just see the preponderance of those negative points transfer to the other side of the fence, where the grass if obviously greener, right?
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:45 pm

just bought a split fish shark 360 in a last ditch attempt to give it another shot :P
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:13 pm

Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:just bought a split fish shark 360 in a last ditch attempt to give it another shot :P


Good luck. I tried a Split fish for the PS3 once. It was buggy and unreliable. I returned it.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:38 pm

Vrock wrote:
Mr. Bamboo Head wrote:just bought a split fish shark 360 in a last ditch attempt to give it another shot :P


Good luck. I tried a Split fish for the PS3 once. It was buggy and unreliable. I returned it.

apparently this one (rev3) is better.... works like a hot damn on the pc tho. doesnt have to be perfect tho; just enough so i can play without hating life.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:17 pm

SPOOFE wrote:
I don't want to paint one platform as definitively better than the other

But you DO want to call people "stupid consumers" and "gits". Come on. As if there aren't morons in any large population. :)

I just don't understand that "blame the consoles" mentality. It's all one market. "Games". That's the market. Sure, you can split it up into numerous sub-categories, but I can't stress enough: Pretty much every negative thing to be said about consoles is a result of "popularity", not form factor, and pretty much every point has an analogue from the days when PC gaming was king. If PC gaming was king again, we'd just see the preponderance of those negative points transfer to the other side of the fence, where the grass if obviously greener, right?


I agree I'm all about the games, this is why I play on platforms I'm not a fan of. That's why I have a 360. If I had to choose one I'd go pc but more for what I can do with it. My PC experience is not typical and not something that says... "HEY PC IS BEST", but rather "its best for me". I attack the ignorant consumer, I personally don't think they add value to any market but they are extremely lucrative for companies to target as they are large and undiscerning costumers who follow marketing blindly.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:29 pm

What a thread. I just play whenever/wherever it's fun or comfortable, and sometimes when it's not. My 360 controller works just fine on my PC...

Speculative talk of Valve getting into the console business has me wondering: how much profit is made on 360, PS3 and Wii hardware now? I can find a few articles from 2008-ish say saying the Wii made like $5 per unit, the 360 broke even, and the PS3 was a "loss". I imagine they're all at least somewhat profitable now... but my search-fu is weak.

I'm also wondering how feasible an official PC emulation client would be for XBLA games. Could a Windows PC reliably connect to Microsoft's servers and emulate XBLA games? I wouldn't mind having a go at some of my XBLA titles from a desktop or laptop...
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:56 am

There isn't yet a 360 emulation environment. Maybe one day, but not today.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:16 am

Well I'll tell you something. In the 1980s, I owned an Atari 2600 for a while and then Atari XL/XE/ST computers. I got my first PC in 1991 and was a pretty devoted PC gamer right up until the time when Command & Conquer Red Alert 3 was first released. I bought a LOT of PC games over the years and have a lot of fond memories to go with it. But when this whole thing came out about having to activate your PC games (even to play in single player mode) or to limit the number of times I could install a game (what if I format my hard drive?), or insist that I have a persistent Internet connection in order to play, or some other such thing, I decided to pull the plug. I also was not in agreement with Steam.

Since I still wanted to game, of course I was forced to look at the consoles. I will say that I have been happy with my console experience, but I will say that FPS and RTS games are better on the PC. However, although mouse and keyboard is better, I've adapted quite well to using the thumbsticks on my Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2 and PS3 consoles for the shooters. It's also a hoot that the PS3 is backwards compatible with the PS1 and so I've been playing old favorites like NHL 99 on it. I see now that a lot of console games have "online activation" passes, but I don't game online, so that doesn't affect me. Switching from the PC to the consoles has saved me a lot of money in hardware costs and provides me with a perfectly acceptable gaming experience, although I've been more of a casual gamer for the past several years.

For what it's worth, I still have two of my old PC gaming towers and a lot of my old PC games, and will fire them up here and there. I still enjoy it!
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:26 am

PetMiceRnice wrote:Well I'll tell you something. In the 1980s, I owned an Atari 2600 for a while and then Atari XL/XE/ST computers. I got my first PC in 1991 and was a pretty devoted PC gamer right up until the time when Command & Conquer Red Alert 3 was first released. I bought a LOT of PC games over the years and have a lot of fond memories to go with it. But when this whole thing came out about having to activate your PC games (even to play in single player mode) or to limit the number of times I could install a game (what if I format my hard drive?), or insist that I have a persistent Internet connection in order to play, or some other such thing, I decided to pull the plug. I also was not in agreement with Steam.

Since I still wanted to game, of course I was forced to look at the consoles. I will say that I have been happy with my console experience, but I will say that FPS and RTS games are better on the PC. However, although mouse and keyboard is better, I've adapted quite well to using the thumbsticks on my Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2 and PS3 consoles for the shooters. It's also a hoot that the PS3 is backwards compatible with the PS1 and so I've been playing old favorites like NHL 99 on it. I see now that a lot of console games have "online activation" passes, but I don't game online, so that doesn't affect me. Switching from the PC to the consoles has saved me a lot of money in hardware costs and provides me with a perfectly acceptable gaming experience, although I've been more of a casual gamer for the past several years.

For what it's worth, I still have two of my old PC gaming towers and a lot of my old PC games, and will fire them up here and there. I still enjoy it!


I see what your complaining about but... dude their are online passes for console games, day one DLC for SP only games, etc. No matter what platform you play on they'll get you. Same publishers don't worry they don't respect consumers no matter how they buy their games.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:04 pm

No matter what platform you play on they'll get you.

Yes, exactly. That's essentially what I've been saying for five pages: Dirty tricks and sloppy product development are symptoms of popularity. When PC gaming was king, PC gaming was rife. Now that consoles are king, consoles are rife. If PC gaming were king again, why would anyone expect all the nasty business to just magically disappear?
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:08 pm

I... don't know what the hubbub is about, honestly. I have never had more fun with my PC games than I did this year. There are plenty of games coming out that are PC-only, ditto XBLC-only or iOS-only or whatever — there are more games (good and bad and everything in between) coming out now than ever before. It's a fantastic time to be a gamer, and yet these camps are warring over which platform has hegemony or which control scheme is the best.

Contention: tabletop games & card games > video games.

HAVE AT YOU!
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:22 am

There's apparently a perception that PC gaming is suffering some unforgivable blow due to something consoles are doing. It confuses me as well.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:25 pm

PC gamers need a scapegoat for the declining relevancy of their platform. Consoles are that scapegoat.

Kinda like how the Germans needed a scapegoat for the declining relevancy of Germany in the 1930s. Jews were that scapegoat.

Godwin'd. Thread over.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:27 pm

Ah, but an intentional Godwin doesn't count.
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Re: Console vs. gaming PC

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:05 pm

This discussion should totally be stickied as the never ending debate of PC vs console gaming. People need to deal with the animosity of the issue regardless.

Personally this discussion reminds me of political discussions, where one side is firmly entrenched regardless of what the other side says because they've simply had more experience on their side.

In my opinion there really is no contest in PCs vs Gaming. About the only boundaries between the two have been artificially created and caveats have been formed by MS's own agenda to push the x360, so they don't improve game support on windows or their atrocious GFWL client. If Valve gets it's act together we may see HTPCs with Steam on them being pushed in lieu of consoles in the future. They can even develop this market and have complete control over it with a little work.
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