Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

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Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:10 am

Hey there,

Z77 Boards are out, Ivy is just beyond the horizon so it is finally time to build a new computer.
I will post what my research brought up so far.

My primary use of the computer are gaming (single 21“ screen @ 1080p) and music/video.
I like to toy around with overclocks but I have yet to feel any practical improvement to bother using them 24/7.

Let me start with what I am currently running:

Board: Asus P5WDH-Deluxe
CPU: Core2Duo E6600 (no OC)
RAM: 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 800MHz
Graphics: Asus 8800GTX

Sound: X-Fi Titanium HD
HDD: WD Raptor 150GB + WD Green 2TB
Optical: LG SATA BluRay toaster
PSU: Thermaltake Evo Blue 650W
Case: Lian Li PC60
Cooler: Noctua NH-D14

Components in black are supposed to stay if possible. Components in Red will be replaced by the following:
Board: Asus P8Z77 V-Deluxe

CPU: Core i5-3570K (The Core i5-2500K successor or 2500K)

RAM: 16GB Kingston Hyper X PnP 1600MHz
(Kingston served me well for the last 6 years and this RAM is the only RAM that uses standard 1.5V and is listed in the MoBos QVL for 4 channel compatibility.

Graphics: Gigabyte 7870 OC (Seems to be the quietest and coolest of the bunch, I'm not a silent freak but I don't tolerate noisy Fans either.)

As far as SSDs are concerned: I do not really see the point, because I do not have the financial resources to buy a big one and would have to load games from an HDD anyway. While it would be fun to have some super fast starting windows It is not worth the 100-200€ to me.

It might be a bit early to ask this but do you have any thoughts or suggestions?
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:53 am

Ifalna wrote:Let me start with what I am currently running:
Board: Asus P5WDH-Deluxe
CPU: Core2Duo E6600 (no OC)
RAM: 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR2 800MHz
Graphics: Asus 8800GTX

Sound: X-Fi Titanium HD
HDD: WD Raptor 150GB + WD Green 2TB
Optical: LG SATA BluRay toaster
PSU: Thermaltake Evo Blue 650W
Case: Lian Li PC60
Cooler: Noctua NH-D14

As far as SSDs are concerned: I do not really see the point, because I do not have the financial resources to buy a big one and would have to load games from an HDD anyway. While it would be fun to have some super fast starting windows It is not worth the 100-200€ to me.
Your choices look reasonable, but you really should plan to replace your 150 GB 10,000 RPM hard-drive with a 120 GB SSD as your boot drive.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:53 am

The Raptor is a bad choice. You'll get more bang for the buck with a ~120 GB SSD. Shoot, the 150 GB Raptor is running $30 more than I paid for my OCZ Agility 3 @ 120 GB.

And for what I do, I have 15 GB free with Skyrim, All the Company of Heroes, Mafia II, Day of Defeat Source, and Civ V installed. Plus some "real" apps. Go SSD.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:03 am

He's running his 150GB Raptor for the same reason I'm still on my 300GB Raptor... It's already in there. 0$ upgrade cost.

The parts in black, he already has. He is only buying replacements for the parts in RED.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:06 am

TheEmrys wrote:The Raptor is a bad choice. You'll get more bang for the buck with a ~120 GB SSD. Shoot, the 150 GB Raptor is running $30 more than I paid for my OCZ Agility 3 @ 120 GB.

And for what I do, I have 15 GB free with Skyrim, All the Company of Heroes, Mafia II, Day of Defeat Source, and Civ V installed. Plus some "real" apps. Go SSD.

He's not BUYING a Raptor. He already owns the Raptor.

SSD will certainly blow the Raptor away whenever the drive is the bottleneck, but he already said he doesn't have the funds. For a gamer the video card is far more important and funds should not be diverted from the video card budget to get an SSD. In this situation it would make the most sense to get the video card you want first and then if you really want an SSD you can do than a few months later.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:15 am

I want to higlight the hdds too, but not necessarily to line them up for ssd replacement. Just going by the age of the proc, I want to adk how old are the harddrives? I know for myself, if I see an hdd has been in use for four years, it is automatically suspect to me.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:23 am

gbcrush wrote:I want to higlight the hdds too, but not necessarily to line them up for ssd replacement. Just going by the age of the proc, I want to adk how old are the harddrives? I know for myself, if I see an hdd has been in use for four years, it is automatically suspect to me.


Why? I have a small fleet (40 or so) of hard drives whose age ranges from five years to nine years. What is FAR more important than hard drive age is whether or not you have a proper back up in place.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:34 am

Not sure that you want to go straight to 16GB just for gaming. I would just get a pair of 4GB sticks, and stick the money saved towards something else (probably a future SSD). Yes, ram is cheap, but still no point in paying for something that you are barely using.

Games barely use 2GB. You aren't using anything else that is hugely memory intensive, or it would slow your current 4GB system to a crawl. At best, windows will use the extra ram for file cache, so you need to decide where the faster disk access through the file cache compares to a larger but slower SSD or the slow disk. RAM costs maybe 5x what a current SSD would cost per GB. Personally, I wouldn't go to 16GB until I had 128GB SSD for windows, browser, mail, user data, and maybe a couple of favourite oddly slow games.

The one argument in favour of 16GB of ram is that the extra 8GB would cost less than a sensible sized SSD (at least 60GB for booting windows), but if you cant afford the small SSDs, I would skip the extra ram too.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:37 am

I think mboza has a valid point. Unless you're really going to use 16 GB of RAM then just go with 8 GB if you can put the savings toward an SSD.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:05 pm

Ifalna wrote:As far as SSDs are concerned: I do not really see the point, because I do not have the financial resources to buy a big one and would have to load games from an HDD anyway.

Check out ASUS boards that support SSD caching.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:09 pm

I feel I need to counterpoint. I bought eight sticks of low-ish latency (9), standard voltage (1.5V), high quality DDR3-1600 for about 150$ a few weeks ago. 150$ doesn't go all that far for a decent sized SSD. I'm planning for a Samsung 256GB towards the end of summer, but that'll be nearly 2X what my RAM cost, and the RAM provides benefits both now and after the SSD purchase.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:30 pm

Forge wrote:I feel I need to counterpoint. I bought eight sticks of low-ish latency (9), standard voltage (1.5V), high quality DDR3-1600 for about 150$ a few weeks ago. 150$ doesn't go all that far for a decent sized SSD. I'm planning for a Samsung 256GB towards the end of summer, but that'll be nearly 2X what my RAM cost, and the RAM provides benefits both now and after the SSD purchase.

If your MB does not feature SSD caching then I totally see your point. If the OP has yet to buy a MB then I recommend buying one with SSD caching as it will provide them with the benefit of fast SSD speeds for app/map/level load times while retaining the low cost/high storage of a HDD. A $150 SSD (120GB) would be perfect.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:34 pm

I agree with everyone else. Get that raptor out of there as soon as you can and replace it with an SSD. The Crucial m4 128 is only 160 at Newegg. More than reasonable price for a pretty good drive.

If you did decide to go back down to 8GB of RAM you could save 40-50 bucks and put that towards an SSD that would only end up costing you around 110 bucks net. (at least with the one I have listed above)
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:10 pm

Forge wrote:I feel I need to counterpoint. I bought eight sticks of low-ish latency (9), standard voltage (1.5V), high quality DDR3-1600 for about 150$ a few weeks ago. 150$ doesn't go all that far for a decent sized SSD. I'm planning for a Samsung 256GB towards the end of summer, but that'll be nearly 2X what my RAM cost, and the RAM provides benefits both now and after the SSD purchase.


YMMV.

I am assuming 8x4GB sticks? So $150 for 32GB of ram, and $300 for 256GB of SSD. Does the 32GB of ram make your pc feel much faster? I have 24GB at work, and 8GB at home, and I don't know that I could tell the difference between them unless I had both side by side (and that difference is going to be down to the fact that one is a i7-930, and the other an i5-2500k).

My point was that there are diminishing returns to both RAM and SSD space, and you want to find a balance. If you have so little ram that you are paging regularly, buy more ram. 24GB on my work PC isn't enough for some tasks. But once you have enough ram, the subjective increase in performance between adding more ram (which willl get used as disk cache, and make some disk accesses hugely faster), and buying an SSD (which will make some larger amount of disk accesses faster, but not as fast as ram) will depend on striking some balance between the two. If the OP is short of cash, I don't think 8->16GB is a worthwhile upgrade. If he can afford it, I think a smallish SSD (60GB) is better value than the extra 8GB of ram. And I should probably continue by saying a large SSD is probably better value than 8GB of ram, as I have 8GB of ram and a 256GB SSD.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:31 pm

I'm only running 24GB of it at the moment, since I'm back on my i7-920 until my LGA2011 plans are ready to fruit. I did notice in a very big way when I went down to 12GB for some troubleshooting a few weeks back, but I'm far from an average user. I'm not even using my computer properly until the third or fourth VM spins up, and 24GB isn't so much memory when divided 8 or 10 ways.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:40 pm

Forge wrote:I feel I need to counterpoint. I bought eight sticks of low-ish latency (9), standard voltage (1.5V), high quality DDR3-1600 for about 150$ a few weeks ago. 150$ doesn't go all that far for a decent sized SSD. I'm planning for a Samsung 256GB towards the end of summer, but that'll be nearly 2X what my RAM cost, and the RAM provides benefits both now and after the SSD purchase.


You're obviously not filling that RAM with gaming. I guess several demanding VMs, the OP doesn't seem to have that usage. Also, I think you're being ridiculous about $150 not making a dent in a decent SSD. That'll buy a nice 120GB~ SSD. That'd be a far better use of the money in a gaming/general purpose system.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:00 pm

Some interesting Suggestions. The 16GB would in fact be installed "just to be future proof", I don't plan on running VMs (Other than win XP-Mode to use my super-ultra old scanner :D ).

8GB would probably be more than enough, since I always could add more once (or IF) it becomes a necessity during the systems life span. Putting that money towards an SSD sounds tempting, given the fact that my trusty old Raptor is indeed old.

I want to adk how old are the harddrives?


Raptor: Around 6 Years, has ~19.000h of operation, No reallocated sectors yet.
WD20EARS: Maybe a year(?) not really sure atm.

If I had to chose: I would buy this one:
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:03 pm

What are the plans with the other hardware being replaced and does it makes sense to either repurpose that as a whole or try to sell it/give it away?
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:50 pm

Given your intended uses, it seems very silly to spend damn-near $300 on a high-end, OC-centered, bells-n-whistles-laden uber-motherboard. Consider the cost and feature spread of Asus' other Z77 motherboards, some of which cost less than half as much as the Deluxe.

It's your money. If there's some Deluxe bell or whistle that you absolutely need and can't get for less with an adapter then it's not silly. Otherwise, since you won't have a huge 24/7 OC and you're just gaming @1080p, you're spending far too much on the motherboard. Put the difference towards an SSD.

You also don't need a 7870 for modern games at 1080p (e.g. 7850 is more than enough) but I don't have as much of a problem with overspending here because your usage scenario (gaming) can actually be futureproofed somewhat, whereas the motherboard is almost entirely irrelevant. If was buying a GPU specifically to futureproof and I had your kinda budget, I'd get the Asus P8Z77-M PRO or ASUS P8Z77-V LE to save $120 and I'd put that towards a GTX 680 (req $20 more). I think an SSD is an overall better application of money, but if you're just looking to "futureproof" the GPU, a big flagship card like that isn't a bad bet (it's cheaper in the long run to make more frequent purchases of midrange ($150-$250) cards and sell them on upgrade, but if that's not your bag...).
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:13 am

Well if you plan to overclock this new ivy chip,you better hope it does not run as hot as in the couple reviews with engineer samples,it might be ok to get a sandy setup.
But no jumping to conclusions until i see real retail reviews
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:03 am

Given your intended uses, it seems very silly to spend damn-near $300 on a high-end, OC-centered, bells-n-whistles-laden uber-motherboard. Consider the cost and feature spread of Asus' other Z77 motherboards, some of which cost less than half as much as the Deluxe.


Maybe, but I learned the hard way that you better never save money on the board. I hate unstable systems.

But no jumping to conclusions until i see real retail reviews

Agreed, and that's what I'm waiting for too. But OC potential won't be a "buy or no buy" factor for me anyway.

What are the plans with the other hardware being replaced and does it makes sense to either repurpose that as a whole or try to sell it/give it away?


Unknown at the time. I doubt that anyone wants old hardware like that. Especially if it's slowly starting to act up a little due to old age.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:14 am

Ifalna wrote:
Given your intended uses, it seems very silly to spend damn-near $300 on a high-end, OC-centered, bells-n-whistles-laden uber-motherboard. Consider the cost and feature spread of Asus' other Z77 motherboards, some of which cost less than half as much as the Deluxe.

Maybe, but I learned the hard way that you better never save money on the board. I hate unstable systems.

So, get an inexpensive Intel motherboard? Inexpensive does not automatically mean that it's of shoddy quality and unreliable. The Intel H67 motherboard I used for my SO's computer works great, in the sense it Just Works(tm).

Instead of just picking a great (but expensive) motherboard, try and figure out what you need. You already established that you don't want to overclock (at least not for daily operation), what else will you not be needing? FWIW, I'm happy with my Asrock Z68 Pro3 Gen3.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:44 am

Well the only difference between the deluxe and (e.g.) the normal Z77V (besides the "omg more LAN cards double WiFi and "moar" SATA ports) are the power phases (normal 8 CPU, deluxe 16CPU) I don't know whether I'm falling for a marketing gag here but as far as I understand it: more phases -> cooler components -> less noise on the operating voltage -> more stability.
That and eSATA... oO
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:53 am

flip-mode wrote:Why? I have a small fleet (40 or so) of hard drives whose age ranges from five years to nine years. What is FAR more important than hard drive age is whether or not you have a proper back up in place.


Probably because I don't have a small fleet of HDDs in the age range of 5-9 years, and those that are still viable in that range have made it there on what I feel is part luck, part extended vacation from daily use. :D

I totally agree, you should have a good back up in place whether drive is fresh or well into its years. I want to say more so if the drives holding critical data are old, but lets face it, young drives bork up too. I just didnt have the patience to add that too my post since I was typing on the forums from my phone. :D
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:25 pm

Ifalna wrote:Maybe, but I learned the hard way that you better never save money on the board. I hate unstable systems.


The ASUS P8Z77-V LE would not make for an unstable system. If a pricier board reassures you, fine, spend the money. These boards are all made with the same components from the same manufacturers, passed through the same QA departments, and carry exactly the same warranty. If you're just gaming and you're not going OC-crazy, you don't need 16 power phases — 8 is more than plenty (VRM setups are quite robust throughout Asus' line).

At the very least, you could save money by getting the standard P8Z77-V or the Pro (or the Maximus V GENE).
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:13 pm

Ifalna wrote:Well the only difference between the deluxe and (e.g.) the normal Z77V (besides the "omg more LAN cards double WiFi and "moar" SATA ports) are the power phases (normal 8 CPU, deluxe 16CPU) I don't know whether I'm falling for a marketing gag here but as far as I understand it: more phases -> cooler components -> less noise on the operating voltage -> more stability.
That and eSATA... oO

I know it's been a dead thread for a week, but I still want to comment on this. More stability due to more power phases you say? Yes, maybe when you're jamming 50% more current through the CPU. At stock(ish) speeds, it's going to make exactly jack **** difference.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:06 pm

Duly noted.

However, Board, Gfx, RAM and SSD are already sitting here and the board looks at me with puppy eyes and always asks when it's CPU will be released. :S

Thanks for the input that I don't need 16Ggigs of RAM, thus making room for a SSD.
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:28 am

With the deals going around on 2600ks and the fact they seem to overclock better in the z77 boards i would grab a sandy cpu.The ivy cpus with a hefty cooler on them at 4.5ghz are running at 70c or higher where a sandy cpu runs 20-25c cooler and can hit 5ghz + on air or self contained water cooling. Ivy at 4.8ghz starts to throttle.
I am guessing the reduced die surface area along with the new 22nm process is leading to the high temps.....intel also has ivy throttle temp at 105c i believe and its seems the engineering samples are overclocking a bit better then the retail chips.
Here is VR zones 4.8ghz comparison of a 2600k and 3770k It is very small if you do not use the IGP on the chip. Unfortunately they do not show temperatures,but you can use the many other articles to figure that out.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/ivy-bridge- ... 15637.html

Now ivy on subzero has beet kicking some butt:)
If you have a phase change setup like a promethia Mach 2 you could be blazing at 6ghz + :)
Anyway whatever you choose you will love it i guarantee it.
If you do choose ivy make sure you get a good cpu cooler.I hope someone comes out with a heatsink article just for ivy bridge,perhaps a hyper 212 evo will pull more heat from the cpu if it is orientated on the ivy cpu where the direct contact heatpipes hitting as much as the cpu die under the cpu integrated heatsink. But i guess we will have to wait for the article named best cpu cooler for ivy bridge to get some good intel LOL
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Sun May 13, 2012 6:03 am

It's been two weeks now since I got my 3570K. Everything is running emerald green and I'm really happy with my hardware.

I get now why you're all so hyped about SSDs, they are really fun. :lol:

Temperatures and noise levels (what noise?!) are a dream. 55°C CPU/GPU under load.

Since I dislike just throwing stuff away, I've put my old hardware in a display case for a while:
Image

And the new beauty:
Image

The left cable is just for my keyboard illumination and the outgoing Molex is for my scanner. 12V DC is 12V DC screw the "Only use manufacturers power supply!" :roll:

Thank you again for all your input and your reviews TR!
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Re: Thoughts about a new Ivy-Rig

Postposted on Sun May 13, 2012 12:35 pm

So you came up with the extra funds to get the SSD? Glad you enjoy it.

Is that an AMD 486 CPU in there? Wow that brings back memories. Long live JSIII. :)
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