Sound upgrade

[linda]

I have no open slots on my motherboard... are there any other ways I can improve my sound quality? Right now I am using the onboard sound, and it's sorta "blurry" I could spend about $100, at the most. What other alternatives are out there these days, and does anyone have any advice?

[just brew it!]

You can get external sound "cards" that connect via USB. But before you go that route, are you sure the problem isn't your headphones/speakers?

[Egglick]

USB would be the easiest way, but it tends to eat up more CPU cycles and have more latency than other methods. If you're a gamer, you'll want to avoid that route.

I'm more curious as to how you manged to fill all your expansion slots. Are you using a Micro ATX board?

[Jambe]

As jbi suggested, perhaps you could tell us what you're using to listen?

If your headphones and/or speaker setup aren't too great then getting a better processor or amplifier won't help you much.

[linda]

I know the problem isn't the speakers: it happens on 2 different sets. I can get new speakers at another time, but don't want to invest in that unless I know my sound card will work correctly with my computer hardware. I had an old set of HarmonKardon speakers, replaced them with Logitech s-220's, both sets were in the $20 - $30 range. I like to play games, but I'm not really a sound aficionado. I just want my stuff to sound good, and not cause issues elsewhere.

I know it isn't the sound cards themselves (I tried a few different ones), but could be software, drivers, or even the slot they get plugged in to. I just reinstalled Win7 64bit, fresh install, and was really careful to install only the newest drivers for everything, and no extra software. I thought that fixed the problem, because I played my games for a few hours with no problems, but then the pops and crackles came back.

My computer is a Dell Studio xps, and I have a pci express ethernet card installed, a geforce gtx460 taking up 2 more slots. I have one slot left, the one that i used for my sound card but both cards caused the problems so I figured I should avoid the slot.

This problem has been plaguing me for a long time now... I get around it by rebooting and then I can have good sound for awhile, sometimes for hours. But like I said, right now I'm using the onboard sound, and having no crackly pop problems. I just know the sound can be improved, and since I have such a nice graphics card, and lots of ram I just kind of want to upgrade my sound.

I guess I just want to hear more about alternatives: USB is one, but probably not for me since I play games? How about an external enclosure for a sound card I already have? I have 1 x ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card and SoundBlaster x-fi extreme gamer along with some others in my hardware pile

[just brew it!]

$30 speakers are not going to sound particularly good no matter what you do. But the fact that you're getting crackles and pops when you use a discrete sound card does point to a hardware/software problem in the system. Does the problem seem to happen during particular activities (e.g. gaming), or is it random?

I'm wondering if the crackling may be related to heavy I/O activity, e.g. a background virus scan or disk defrag kicking in. You may want to put one of the discrete cards back in, and see if the issue correlates with times when the disk activity light is flashing.

I don't think external PCI/PCIe enclosures exist, at least not at reasonable prices. And it likely wouldn't solve the problem anyway even if you could get one, since this hypothetical enclosure would need to plug into the same slot you're putting the card in now.

[Egglick]

Stupid question, but have you tried muting your Microphone input and any other Line In connections?? That would be the most obvious culprit for something like this.

Aside from that, the only other explanation is strong electrical interference. The number one suspect would be your powersupply. I imagine you upgraded it from the stock Dell unit before slapping in that GTX460? What brand did you get?

[metalhead]

You could get a PCI extender cable and run it to the blocked slot behind your graphics card. I'm using one for my sound card with no problems. http://cablesaurus.com/

[credible]

Hi there, before I got an HT Omega Claro 2, which btw is heaven, I had an xfi extreme gamer like yours, try these drivers and make sure you grab the right ones, after I installed these I had no cracking issues at all.

I'm thinking like some others that its probably more then that, perhaps as metalhead said, try the extension cord method to get at those other 2 slots and see if you have the same issue, one must keep in mind as well, your probably dealing with a MB thats on the cheap side with the XPS, wifey has an XPS 8100 and it works for what she needs it for.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/pax-drivers/

[linda]

Thanks for all the replies! I would be amazed and forever in your debt if this issue gets fixed: I had given up on it and was thinking I would just have to live with onboard sound until I decided to get another computer. This ones not all that old, though, but I was never happy with the limit of slots.

I put the xtreme gamer pci card back in and am downloading the creative drivers now. I'll get it set up, and try some of the suggestions.
Hardware Heaven: couldn't find the download links, but I'll try again if the creative ones don't work.

I will disable onboard sound again in the bios.

I will mute my Microphone input and any other Line In connections - I never did that before.

My power supply is Corsair vx550w.

The issue seems to only happen when I am playing games, but then that's the only time I have sound to play. (Minecraft, Aion, Skyrim, Guild Wars) If I stop playing the game when the pops kill the sound, I noticed that my sound sometimes comes back for basic windows things, and for playing songs through I-Tunes.

Ok, download is complete, I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks again for the suggestions!

[linda]

Well, I feel like an idiot now. Egglick, your suggestion got me thinking... my computer is around 4 inches away from my electrical cord. I also have the thingy (transformer?) that plugs into my Comcast modem really close by too. So all I did was move that to about a foot away from the computer. I haven't had any problems all day

I honestly did not know that electrical interference could affect my sound. This might be a stupid question (might as well ask) but could it affect anything else in my computer? Internet connection? Graphics? Just asking...

[ludi]

Well, I feel like an idiot now. Egglick, your suggestion got me thinking... my computer is around 4 inches away from my electrical cord. I also have the thingy (transformer?) that plugs into my Comcast modem really close by too. So all I did was move that to about a foot away from the computer. I haven't had any problems all day

I honestly did not know that electrical interference could affect my sound. This might be a stupid question (might as well ask) but could it affect anything else in my computer? Internet connection? Graphics? Just asking...

A cell phone can, in some cases.

[just brew it!]

Sound is typically the most sensitive to outside electrical interference, since part of the signal path is analog. If your Internet connection is wireless (WiFi) then that can certainly be susceptible as well. Analog VGA monitors with poor quality cables can pick up interference. Wireless mice/keyboards can act flaky if the receiver is too close to a source of interference; even the computer itself can cause problems for wireless peripherals, in which case putting the receiver on a USB extension cable to get it a couple of feet away from the computer often helps.

In general, the rest of the system (video card, etc.) will be pretty resistant to outside interference since it is all digital and doesn't rely on radio waves to operate.

Something I forgot to ask earlier is whether you're using front panel or back panel connections for the audio. Front panel audio connectors are notorious for picking up all kinds of interference.

[Egglick]

Yeah, those power adapters can throw out some nasty interference. I remember a few years back, my dad had his monitor cable running directly over a giant 3LB brick for either a printer or a scanner. It was making his entire screen wavy like an old TV. He was ready to throw out the monitor. I rerouted the cable and moved the brick, and the picture was crystal clear.

[morphine]

Well, I feel like an idiot now.

No need. These kind of interference issues get professionals scratching their heads often too.

[just brew it!]

Yeah, those power adapters can throw out some nasty interference. I remember a few years back, my dad had his monitor cable running directly over a giant 3LB brick for either a printer or a scanner. It was making his entire screen wavy like an old TV. He was ready to throw out the monitor. I rerouted the cable and moved the brick, and the picture was crystal clear.

Old school CRTs could be extremely sensitive to external magnetic fields. Years ago at a previous job, my office mate's monitor totally flipped out one morning. The image was shaking all over the place, and the colors were all wrong. He was really pissed off, figuring that he was going to have to wait several days (or weeks... this was at a US DOE laboratory, so purchasing equipment was an exercise in navigating a Byzantine bureaucracy) for a suitable replacement.

Thinking to myself "I've seen this before!" I went down the hall and peeked in the next office, and noted that the occupant had put a tabletop fan on his desk -- just a couple of feet from my office mate's monitor (but on the other side of a solid wall). I switched the fan off, went back to our office, and said "So, is that all better now?" (It was.) Really freaked him out!

Some larger CRTs were also visibly affected by the Earth's magnetic field. Depending on whether the monitor was oriented east-west or north-south, the entire image would rotate a couple of degrees clockwise or counter-clockwise. There was typically an adjustment on the back panel that could be used to correct for this.

[moresmarterthanspock]

Your sound can crackle if you have your sampling rate set too high. This is usually only the case with older processors, like a Core 2 Duo. 96 Khz is a good setting, but anything higher than that, like 192 Khz, might be too high for your processor and it can't keep up.

[linda]

Well, I spoke too soon, the sound problem returned even though i moved that transformer thing. So here's what I did: disabled onboard in bios, disabled a bunch of stuff in Playback Devices and Recording Devices, moved my Linksys router, and took these pics. BTW, I am using the back panel connectors on the Creative sound card. I don't know what sampling is, but here's a pic of what I could find.

[PenGun]

Digital out from your onboard sound or a card to a stand alone DAC is the only way to get good sound from a computer.

[Airmantharp]

Digital out from your onboard sound or a card to a stand alone DAC is the only way to get good absolutely perfect sound from a computer.

Fixed that for you. There are plenty of ways to get good, great, and amazing sound from a computer.

[PenGun]

Digital out from your onboard sound or a card to a stand alone DAC is the only way to get good absolutely perfect sound from a computer.

Fixed that for you. There are plenty of ways to get good, great, and amazing sound from a computer.

There is nothing at all perfect about a 16 bit word sampled 44,100 times a second. This demonstrates the acceptance of garbage (good great and amazing) sound by the iPod generation.

A computer is a nasty place for sound. Even a fine sound card, I have an M audio 24/96, is challenged by the environment it operates in. Getting the digital signal to a stand alone DAC is the only way to get around that.

You may be satisfied with poor sound if your audio chain is so compromised that you cannot tell the difference. This is very common these days. Phones, creative sound cards etc etc.

[cynan]

And now, back on topic

Pops, buzzes and other intermittent electrical interference can be really difficult to solve as the source of the problem can be anything from the power delivery to your sound card, interfering magnetic fields from insufficiently shielded higher-current neighboring circuits, radio waves, etc. It could also be low-level interference that occurs when hard drives are accessed (again, likely due to power delivery to the sound card interrupted by competing devices), but in my experience, this does not result in more noticeable pops, but rather in a lower background rumbling, and is more common with onboard sound as half decent sound cards filter out this supply interruption.

A couple of things I might try. 1) Make sure your analog speaker cables (the cable that goes from the sound card to the speaker input) is properly shielded and not running near AC/DC transformers and power supplies. You could also try plugging in headphones directly and routing the cord directly to the front of the computer to see if the problem persists. 2) Remove your ethernet card and see if the problem continues. Obviously this isn't a permanent solution but it could be causing interference with the sound card in the adjacent slot. More than likely, however, if it is a PCI device that is causing the issue, it's probably the video card as they operate at much higher power (particularly when gaming). And you probably don't want to try a new video card.

If you are really pulling your hair out, a USB sound card would probably be the best bet for resolving this issue as this will separate the analog portion of the audio signal from the rest of the computer - particularly one that is externally powered. If you just want it for 2-channel stereo, then the Nuforce Udac might be a reasonable option. The basic one is $129 and all you need. Plus it's portable, so you can use it to get better sound from your laptop if you have one.

[cynan]

A computer is a nasty place for sound. Even a fine sound card, I have an M audio 24/96, is challenged by the environment it operates in. Getting the digital signal to a stand alone DAC is the only way to get around that.

Pshhhh. Well maaaaybe, but only if you invest in digital signal reclocker to be sure that you've corrected out all that nasty jitter introduced by that oh so harsh n' nasty PC environment.

[Airmantharp]

A computer is a nasty place for sound. Even a fine sound card, I have an M audio 24/96, is challenged by the environment it operates in. Getting the digital signal to a stand alone DAC is the only way to get around that.

Pshhhh. Well maaaaybe, but only if you invest in digital signal reclocker to be sure that you've corrected out all that nasty jitter introduced by that oh so harsh n' nasty PC environment.

Yup. All I'm saying is that the cost vs. performance margin gets way out of whack quickly, when great sound can be had for very little. Also, if you're trying to listen to a high quality track with the PC as your source, what are you thinking? There are plenty of better ways to do that.

[PenGun]

A computer is a nasty place for sound. Even a fine sound card, I have an M audio 24/96, is challenged by the environment it operates in. Getting the digital signal to a stand alone DAC is the only way to get around that.

Pshhhh. Well maaaaybe, but only if you invest in digital signal reclocker to be sure that you've corrected out all that nasty jitter introduced by that oh so harsh n' nasty PC environment.

I dunno, you come off a hard drive almost perfect then through a SATA controller, then to the mobo's digital out.

Anyway, any good DAC will reclock.

[cynan]

Yup. All I'm saying is that the cost vs. performance margin gets way out of whack quickly, when great sound can be had for very little.

Yeah. There are some very nice $150-$200 sound cards out there by HT Omega, Asus, etc now that offer a significant upgrade over integrated for music aficionados. Even a $20 Asus Xonar DX can be a worthwhile upgrade over some integrated configurations.

Also, if you're trying to listen to a high quality track with the PC as your source, what are you thinking? There are plenty of better ways to do that.

Perhaps, but almost none that I can think of that are anywhere near as convenient.

And about the jitter comment, I was more or less being facetious. I use my PC as my main digital source for music and actually plunked down money on one of those USB/SPDIF reclockers when I got my "audiophile" grade external DAC and to be honest, I'm not sure that I notice any difference - though I haven't done extensive A/B testing. I'm actually kind of embarrassed to admit I bought it (snake oil stigma), but it was offered at a discount with the DAC purchase... The DAC/AMP combo however, made a very profound improvement.

[cynan]

Anyway, any good DAC will reclock.

Yes. Which is why I figure the external reclocker I bought was probably a waste. At least it didn't cost me too much.

[vargis14]

Right click on your volume setting on the taskbar and select playback devices,
then select your creative speaker right click and select properties.You will find your sampling rate setting in there.Same goes for all other playback devices.
Good luck

[linda]

I ordered the NuForce uDac2 I think my computer just isn't capable of using a normal discrete sound card, for whatever reason, and I feel like upgrading. Next will be the speakers, I'm sure. Right now I'm using Logitech S220's. I never liked them, but I figured it wouldn't make sense to replace them if I had to use the onboard sound. Hopefully now I will be able to!