Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

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Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 12:12 pm

News source: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... er-80-inch

That explains a lot...

Sorry for the folks who do an actual business on Windows machines, like AutoCAD, Photo/Video processing, programming, spreadsheets, word documents and so on.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 2:16 pm

I can certainly see business moving that way and I can certainly see everybody doing that in 10 years. But right now, touch screens just aren't that popular on the desktop/work place computer. Outside of tablets/smart phones, "touch" is pratically non-existent.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 2:35 pm

For now anyways. I see Windows 8/Kinect as Microsofts attempt to jump start touch/gesture based technology. Instead of the mindset of "once we have the technology, interfaces will follow", its "Once we have the interface, people will develop the technology." But really, the tech is already in existence, it's just not being used in this way because people have been using mouse/keyboard for over 20 years now. It's a rough transition.


Imagine what computing will be like in 2020 should Microsoft be successful though....
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 3:35 pm

Alright, so how does he compose a memo? Does he just dictate it to some almost but not quite perfect voice recognition? Or does he propose to just tap it out on the screen? Maybe use something like Swipe?
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 4:02 pm

Looks like Ballmer really liked this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZkHpNnX ... ure=relmfu
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 5:25 pm

Only interface that's likely to surpass keyboard right now, is the neural interface. If it will not fail like the voice recognition technologies.

Voice recognition could work when coupled with touch, but it has reached a plateau http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/0 ... ition.html Not to mention that PCs will go nuts when they'll start to figure out what "make this detail prettier" in autocad or "make it unboke" in word means. Humans are very bad at expressing what they want to do in logical, exact and definitive terms.

My friends with iPads have them thrown into corners because they are only good for bling and stuff. Once they need to start talking on facebook or anything even remotely serious, they beg to borrow a laptop from the people who have them with them. Because keyboard walks over all the fancy on screen input methods, even with all the auto-correct that turns well meant phrases into something you will be embarrassed later on.

Yes, I use my HTC phone for web browsing on the road, but that is limited with simple auto-complete navigation, super-light web browsing or calls. Once I need to view a document, just view, not edit, or manage files on memory card, I want to throw the device away.

Moreover, glass like, transparent device is not a holographic 3D projector, the projection will be off as soon as you move an inch from the dead center. See what happens with those 3D phones and cameras. And bright light makes the screen unusable unless some super-technology is invented like OLEDx5. The video is fail.

And, the problem with technology is humans, they are lazy to talk very clearly, they have accents, different languages, greasy fingertips and fatigue easily when working with vertical keyboards, or if watching down on a horizontal surface all the time.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 5:56 pm

Madman wrote:Voice recognition could work when coupled with touch, but it has reached a plateau http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/0 ... ition.html Not to mention that PCs will go nuts when they'll start to figure out what "make this detail prettier" in autocad or "make it unboke" in word means. Humans are very bad at expressing what they want to do in logical, exact and definitive terms.



also not to mention that it's often important to do input silently...
what's a room (or bus or train carriage or library or air plane) full of people doing voice input going to sound like?
how are you going to do voice input while on the phone or otherwise having a conversation with someone?
how are you going to input stuff that you don't want everyone within earshot knowing?
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 6:27 pm

cheesyking wrote:how are you going to input stuff that you don't want everyone within earshot knowing?

I don't think privacy is an issue in the modern world :roll:
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 7:59 pm

A breakthrough will come. It always does.

I do believe the future lies not in voice, nor touch, nor gesture, nor neural, but in some combination thereof.

I will say this: I believe that in 20 years, the idea that we actually had to hit a key for every single letter we wished to imput into a computer, had a keystroke for every action, and used a pointing device that operated on a 2D plane, will be laughable. This will also contribute to a downfall of command line interfaces (although not their extinction).


Anytime I run this by the network security teacher that teaches at the school I work at, I get laughed out of the room. I guess time will tell.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 8:09 pm

A lot of voice recognition stuff is really cool. I do tons of voice dictation on my phone - probably half of the texts I send since I got my new phone have been spoken because I can speak faster than type on a touch screen.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 8:12 pm

Surely they can implement some kind of dual - voice and text - at the same time, sort of like SpokenLayer? Why read anything if you can hear it directly from the author? Might also help misinterpretation of sarcasm and tone.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 8:14 pm

I just hope someone figures out one key requirement: Ergonomics. IMHO the touch-only tablets (as opposed to convertibles such as the Transformer) are horribly unergonomic when it comes to working on them for any length of time. Viewing videos is ok, but the slab form factor simply does not allow any good way to ergonomically tap on it.

Ergonomics has been one of the reasons cited in the past as to why touch-screen desktop monitors are a bad idea. Extending your arm to touch your desktop or notebook screen, when done for an extended period of time, is simply bad for health. As a guy who has suffered from ergonomics (and posture) related health issues in the past, I do hope that people don't forget about that.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 9:38 pm

Madman wrote:Only interface that's likely to surpass keyboard right now, is the neural interface. If it will not fail like the voice recognition technologies.

Voice recognition could work when coupled with touch, but it has reached a plateau http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/0 ... ition.html Not to mention that PCs will go nuts when they'll start to figure out what "make this detail prettier" in autocad or "make it unboke" in word means. Humans are very bad at expressing what they want to do in logical, exact and definitive terms.

And, the problem with technology is humans, they are lazy to talk very clearly, they have accents, different languages, greasy fingertips and fatigue easily when working with vertical keyboards, or if watching down on a horizontal surface all the time.


Well put.

It's as if Microsoft and a few others really believe that minimal movements from fingers on a keyboard and mouse are not nearly as efficient as waving hands and arms all over an expansive transparent screen which will be on every desk, cubicle and office.

I doubt anyone will enjoy working out their deltoids in this way. I can only imagine how 'easy' it would be to 'type' all day on such a screen. Secretaries of the world would revolt.

Large vertical touch displays do not lend themselves to long sessions of real work where large amounts of data need to be worked with or entered.

Is moving a mouse or typing on a keyboard really that difficult especially when young children are growing up in an environment where keyboarding and typing skills are not only required, but rather easily acquired?

Or do some really believe that people should be purchasing large vertical touch screens because they'll be standing up doing all their work with their arms extended in what some would call 'stress positions'. Last I read, stress positions were akin to torture and used on terrorists.

If innovators think that users are terrorists, they need to get a different job.

p.s. Tiles, there's another 'innovation'.. Earlier this evening, I uninstalled Windows 8 Consumer preview. I don't usually enjoy 'hacking' an OS just to make it usable again. The use of 'tiles' became a time and desktop-space wasting exercise in futility. Talk about inefficient. I can only imagine how much faster my laptop screen hinges would have worn out and failed, and how much 'gunk' I'd be wiping off my laptop screen had it actually been a touch screen.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 9:56 pm

Madman wrote:News source: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... er-80-inch

That explains a lot...

Sorry for the folks who do an actual business on Windows machines, like AutoCAD, Photo/Video processing, programming, spreadsheets, word documents and so on.



I bet he still have a wireless mouse and keyboard hooked up to that thing. He just won't admit it. And who wouldn't want an 80 inch monitor or 80 inch PC/Monitor?

Or does he really expect us to believe he stands up all day typing on that thing?

Even though teachers with Smartboards (Smart Technology) do their teaching up on the board, they sometimes prefer to use Smart Slates to control the Smartboard, and go back to their computers at their desks to do their reams of 'paperwork'.

Come on MS, innovate GOOD stuff. Make stuff BETTER, not just different.

Filling a need, such as increased performance and efficiency, is different than creating an artificial need, which is not really needed, nor appreciated.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 10:07 pm

Did...I really just read someone equate touch screens with torture.....?
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 10:11 pm

EsotericLord wrote:Did...I really just read someone equate touch screens with torture.....?



So are tiles...

Pure torture.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Mon May 28, 2012 11:08 pm

Madman wrote:
cheesyking wrote:how are you going to input stuff that you don't want everyone within earshot knowing?

I don't think privacy is an issue in the modern world :roll:


I'll assume you're joking or trolling.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Tue May 29, 2012 12:20 am

Replacing someting that works well (keyboard + mouse input) with something that works less well ( touch + voice/???) - sooooo Microsoft.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Tue May 29, 2012 7:35 am

Madman wrote:Sorry for the folks who do an actual business on Windows machines, like AutoCAD, Photo/Video processing, programming, spreadsheets, word documents and so on.

I feel sorry for the poor folks who don't realize those things will still work just fine on Windows 8. Madman, you have lots of "new operating system angst".
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Tue May 29, 2012 7:54 am

Whiteboards are surprisingly waaay more effective than powerpoint...

And...

Butcher's paper flipboards are better than Whiteboards...

And...

Punching people in the face and electrocuting them if they get the answers wrong is also more effective than Butcher's paper...

Though we could just use Win 8 on ridiculous Tablets and LOL @ the IT issues... and then someone will pull out the Whiteboard and a whiteboard marker and have at it.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Tue May 29, 2012 4:51 pm

streagle27 wrote:It's as if Microsoft and a few others really believe that minimal movements from fingers on a keyboard and mouse are not nearly as efficient as waving hands and arms all over an expansive transparent screen which will be on every desk, cubicle and office.

I doubt anyone will enjoy working out their deltoids in this way. I can only imagine how 'easy' it would be to 'type' all day on such a screen. Secretaries of the world would revolt.

Large vertical touch displays do not lend themselves to long sessions of real work where large amounts of data need to be worked with or entered.

Is moving a mouse or typing on a keyboard really that difficult especially when young children are growing up in an environment where keyboarding and typing skills are not only required, but rather easily acquired?

Or do some really believe that people should be purchasing large vertical touch screens because they'll be standing up doing all their work with their arms extended in what some would call 'stress positions'. Last I read, stress positions were akin to torture and used on terrorists.

If innovators think that users are terrorists, they need to get a different job.

p.s. Tiles, there's another 'innovation'.. Earlier this evening, I uninstalled Windows 8 Consumer preview. I don't usually enjoy 'hacking' an OS just to make it usable again. The use of 'tiles' became a time and desktop-space wasting exercise in futility. Talk about inefficient. I can only imagine how much faster my laptop screen hinges would have worn out and failed, and how much 'gunk' I'd be wiping off my laptop screen had it actually been a touch screen.

I would like to point out that at some of the places I've worked, yes, the users were indeed terrorists. Or at least trained by them. They could not make decisions which stayed the same for more than approximately the amount of time it took us to code them into effect, when suddenly no, that's not what they wanted after all.
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Re: Ok, now I know why Windows 8 will be what it will be

Postposted on Wed May 30, 2012 3:55 am

This would only work for those who just dab a few letters each time they use a keyboard and use the mouse 90% of the time. My dilemma was as a developer, should I write my code by sliding pre-coded templates and use the virtual keyboard which keeps both my hands hanging in thin air? Definitely no.
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