Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, SecretSquirrel, notfred
Madman wrote:What would be the differences when switching from Ubuntu to Mint? Atomatic updates, repository management, software support, driver support, encrypted HDDs?
Since I'm still newbie'ish in Linux world, I somehow preceive Ubuntu = Stability, Fedora = Stablity, anything else = a lot of compiling. I guess that's not true anymore, or is it?
Krogoth wrote:Care to enlightenment me?
moresmarterthanspock wrote:I am downloading the Mate version of Linux Mint 13 Maya, partially because the developers admit that Mate(a fork of gnome 2), is more stable than the Cinnamon(a customized version of Gnome 3). As much publicity as Ubuntu gets, I think Linux Mint deserves more publicity, as they don't seem to be run by a dictator like Ubuntu. Linux Mint also offers a Debian-based version of Mint, which I suppose Mint developers could shift focus to if Mark Shuttleworth becomes even more of a dictator and drives even more people away from Ubuntu. So, I hear a lot of talk about Ubuntu, but not enough about Linux Mint, which seems to be doing very well. Mark Shuttleworth has done some great things for Linux, but there is a saying that absolute power corrupts, and Beast Shuttleworth seems to be outgrowing his jeans, ignoring input from developers and the common folk. I hope other people see what is going on. I suppose the serpents scales fell from my eyes quite a while ago, and there is much more to it, but in the mean-time, it would be great if the people could be liberated from forceful decisions such as Mr. Shuttleworths, and Linux Mint is a great alternative for now. And I will add one more thing. It would be great if the Linux Mint team shifted most of their effort to the debian-based version, since Debian feels more pure, less bloated, and is much more snappy than anything Ubuntu-related. And my apologies ahead of time to the moderators, I'm not intending this to get into R&P.
Considering Ubuntu is trying to taken seriously as an alternate to Redhat and Mark Shuttleworth is pouring his own finances into the distro, I think he's in the right to shape up his distribution. Linux Mint is a toy people run on their 2 year old laptop to show that they are different.
revparadigm wrote:Considering Ubuntu is trying to taken seriously as an alternate to Redhat and Mark Shuttleworth is pouring his own finances into the distro, I think he's in the right to shape up his distribution. Linux Mint is a toy people run on their 2 year old laptop to show that they are different.
This is what I do not like about some aspects of the Linux community. That sure comes across as arrogant to the average user who is not interested in the business or the complete "geeked out" steep learning curve of Linux, but want a basic solid alternative to Windows.
Madman wrote:What would be the differences when switching from Ubuntu to Mint? Atomatic updates, repository management, software support, driver support, encrypted HDDs?
Since I'm still newbie'ish in Linux world, I somehow preceive Ubuntu = Stability, Fedora = Stablity, anything else = a lot of compiling. I guess that's not true anymore, or is it?
shank15217 wrote:Considering Ubuntu is trying to taken seriously as an alternate to Redhat and Mark Shuttleworth is pouring his own finances into the distro, I think he's in the right to shape up his distribution. Linux Mint is a toy people run on their 2 year old laptop to show that they are different.
DancinJack wrote:revparadigm wrote:...
This is what I do not like about some aspects of the Linux community. That sure comes across as arrogant to the average user who is not interested in the business or the complete "geeked out" steep learning curve of Linux, but want a basic solid alternative to Windows.
Not just the average user. That should come off as arrogant to everyone. Different distros have different uses. People like different things. No need to hate on the people that use it because you don't like it.
Madman wrote:With Ubuntu 10.04 LTS it seemed to me that the situation might have changed already, because the OS was working out of the box, and was productive so that Windows user would be up to speed in 20 minutes. And now, it seems 12.04 LTS is something for tablets? You can't seriously consider recommending 12.04 LTS to any company who has been working and has people from Windows background. Especially if they have to do heavy multitasking like most of the commercial work-flows.
Luckily it seems that the Mint is actually what I'm looking for, maybe they'll continue to carry the torch towards usable Linux and therefore more market share, better 3rd party support, and therefore towards better non-toy Linux. I will see how it will behave once I'll spend one more day on Linux installation.
Madman wrote:I have to agree with revparadigm here. I don't care about politics and stuff, I want Linux to be a SOLID, USABLE and STRAIGHTFORWARD alternative to Windows.
And now, it seems 12.04 LTS is something for tablets? You can't seriously consider recommending 12.04 LTS to any company who has been working and has people from Windows background. Especially if they have to do heavy multitasking like most of the commercial work-flows.
Luckily it seems that the Mint is actually what I'm looking for, maybe they'll continue to carry the torch towards usable Linux and therefore more market share, better 3rd party support, and therefore towards better non-toy Linux. I will see how it will behave once I'll spend one more day on Linux installation.
Krogoth wrote:Care to enlightenment me?
grantmeaname wrote:You have a handful of minor gripes about 12.04 that don't add up to a broken or useless operating system in any way. Seriously, you wouldn't recommend it to people because the taskbar is on the left and you personally have a wide display setup?
revparadigm wrote:shank15217 wrote:Considering Ubuntu is trying to taken seriously as an alternate to Redhat and Mark Shuttleworth is pouring his own finances into the distro, I think he's in the right to shape up his distribution. Linux Mint is a toy people run on their 2 year old laptop to show that they are different.
This is what I do not like about some aspects of the Linux community. That sure comes across as arrogant to the average user who is not interested in the business or the complete "geeked out" steep learning curve of Linux, but want a basic solid alternative to Windows. Mint is in a nice position to appeal to people like this. I personally know multiple people who are computer literate enough to try something else besides Windows...I've pointed them all to Mint [I run it on one of my home systems]. The interest is there - why despise it? I believe Mint is a great opportunity to promote Linux to the average user.
just brew it! wrote:Linux fairs no worse than, well, anything else in this regard. Windows, Mac, Radeon, Geforece, AMD, Intel. Fanboys and elitists abound. I don't know why Linux fanboys get singled out as worse than any other. Really, the worst fanboys seem to be the AMD/Nvidia/Intel ones. Those discussions go to some very bad places; it's disturbing.Yup, I've been convinced for many years now that the Linux (and Open Source in general) evangelists are sometimes their own worst enemies.
flip-mode wrote:just brew it! wrote:Linux fairs no worse than, well, anything else in this regard. Windows, Mac, Radeon, Geforece, AMD, Intel. Fanboys and elitists abound. I don't know why Linux fanboys get singled out as worse than any other. Really, the worst fanboys seem to be the AMD/Nvidia/Intel ones. Those discussions go to some very bad places; it's disturbing.Yup, I've been convinced for many years now that the Linux (and Open Source in general) evangelists are sometimes their own worst enemies.
Krogoth wrote:Care to enlightenment me?
BobbinThreadbare wrote:Possibly more true than false. False in my case. I barely use Linux at all (been over a year since I've had a desktop at home running it). I'm not a Linux fanboy by any measure. But I do think it is - at this point - a completely viable desktop operating system. The only thing that is missing is broad ISV support. The OS itself and the FOSS distros that build on top of it are pretty darn excellent. If all my software worked on Ubuntu and I had the choice between $0 Ubuntu and $50 Windows 7 Professional, well, I'd be running Ubuntu. It's a really fun system to use, mainly because of the "software center" and the absolute ease with which I can install hundreds of really interesting programs, and the fact that I don't have to "validate" my OS or enter a 25 character product key or worry about transfering my OS to a different machine. System updates are seamless. System stability is epic. Hardware support is darn near 100% (damn the Radeons, but my brand new Samsung laser printer works flawlessly). There are no "client access" limitations. Etc, etc... You don't have to be a fanboy to acknowledge that there are a huge list of virtues to Linux. It's Achilles's Heel is ISV support. I can't game. I can't Revit. I can't Creative Suite. I can't Quick Books. Hell, even Google, who has it's own Linux OS, won't put out native Linux versions of Picassa and Sketch Up!There difference is that pretty much only fanboys use desktop Linux.
grantmeaname wrote:You have a handful of minor gripes about 12.04 that don't add up to a broken or useless operating system in any way.
grantmeaname wrote:Ubuntu has a proven history of successfully managing large businesses and especially government agencies transitioning to it, being deployed on as many as 180,000 computers at a time with great results. So why wouldn't I recommend it to businesses?
grantmeaname wrote:Luckily it seems that the Mint is actually what I'm looking for, maybe they'll continue to carry the torch towards usable Linux and therefore more market share, better 3rd party support, and therefore towards better non-toy Linux. I will see how it will behave once I'll spend one more day on Linux installation.
I hope you like it, but again, if you want to talk Linux and PC market share, the only big name is Ubuntu.
JBI wrote:Yup, I've been convinced for many years now that the Linux (and Open Source in general) evangelists are sometimes their own worst enemies.
flip-mode wrote:Linux fairs no worse than, well, anything else in this regard.
madman wrote:I know, and this is why I'm so unhappy about the change. 10.04 LTS was finally nearing a target where it could have started reaching into Windows market segment, and now it's all lost again.
Madman wrote:I don't know, I don't care, once I start my productivity work-flows which include heavy multitasking and 10 of open Windows on the 4 desktops, Unity takes a nose dive, and I'm better off with Windows or 10.04 LTS.
Because it has been broken for multitasking scenarios, normal screen sizes and menu access?
Krogoth wrote:Care to enlightenment me?
grantmeaname wrote:I've used 9 releases of Ubuntu on screens from 10 to 28 inches and resolutions from 1024*768 up to 1920*1200, and across a wide range of dot pitches. It is perfectly functional for all of them. What about Ubuntu's behavior is even remotely broken with regards to screen size or resolution scaling?
To access the menus, click the windows key or the alt key, or move to the top or left of the screen. Was that so hard?
Madman wrote:Menus are mile away from where your focus is, you select something, then you go over a mile to choose an action, go over a mile again to select next selection and mile again to do next operation,
and I don't remember alt+v+x+z all the time, I don't even remember exact menu placement when I go over with a mouse, or exact names to use HUD.
Krogoth wrote:Care to enlightenment me?
grantmeaname wrote:... And if you turned your mouse sensitivity up it would probably hurt your feelings less.
sudo apt-get remove indicator-appmenu
Krogoth wrote:Care to enlightenment me?