Penn St punishment

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Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:31 pm

If I had a time machine, I'd go back and change some of Nebraskas losses to wins. However, I don't have a time machine and saying something doesn't make it so.
Attempting to punish fans & players for the sins of the coach & administration is stupid. Meanwhile, Jerry is rewarded with free room and board for the rest of his life?

not a big penn st fan but punishing players who did nothing wrong is beyond silly.


why does Jerry still have his head attached? Why doesn't this country every penalize the guilty?
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:47 pm

Jerry gets locked up with other criminals for the rest of his life. Prison might be better for very very low income people (who would starve to death otherwise), but it's not going to be luxury for Jerry. On top of that, there is some honor among criminals. Even they have issues with men who abuse children, and I suspect Jerry will have to watch his back...but I digress...

Overall, I think the pnishment is fair. Even the reduction in scholarships, hurting the team, makes sense because the "football first" attitude is partly what caused this disaster. An all-inclusive culture will better serve children, the school, and Penn State football better in the long run. Players who lost wins, eh, not that big of a deal, I think, because if they are still good players and people, they could end up with a decent NFL or "real" career. That mark is mainly to remind people of that systematic protection of child abuse.

The only thing I don't agree with is the postseason suspension. I understand it, but if the team can play well enough with a gimped roster, they deserve a shot at a bowl game...IF THEY EARN IT.

It's a terrible situation, and hopefully the students end up alright, but it's going to take at least a decade for Penn State to move on from this, and the football program might never recover.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:51 pm

How are the players being punished? Everyone of them has the option to transfer and not sit out the usual required season before playing again. Was the Penn State leadership acting in a responsible way over the last 14 years, certainly doesn't look that way. While I heard some calls from the media for the " Death Penalty" being administered, after seeing what the NCAA handed down , maybe PSU would have wished for that instead of 60 mil fine, 4 year bowl ban and reduced scholarships plus 5 years probation. Why is Sandusky going to sit in prison the rest of his life? I don't know, does he deserve the death penalty? Questions that are way to big for me to be judge jury and executioner on.At some point in the future all involved will have moved on in life except for Sandusky's victims, and I suspect if Sandusky is put in a general prison population at any point ,he's liable to experience what his victims did, except not as a young child would or did. Should PSU get off of any of these consequences? IMO , no, when college football reputations get put ahead of the welfare of children, it's time to get tough on those responsible and to make examples. For once the NCAA didnt drag it's feet and acted swiftly and appropriately.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:58 pm

My FB post:

Since everyone is talking about Penn state today here's my two copper on it:

Mark Emmert, NCAA President, said the Penn State case “involves tragic and tragically unnecessary circumstances. One of the grave dangers coming from our love of sports is that the sports themselves can become too big to fail, too big to even challenge. The result can be an erosion of academic values that are replaced by hero worship and winning at all costs. In the Penn State case, the results were perverse and unconscionable.”

I wholeheartedly agree. Now everyone is claiming, what about the students that had or will have scholarships? Well what about them? They can transfer immediately without penalty. Many, if not all, schools hold scholarships in reserve. Here it is 1526 EST and I am surprised to not be hearing that some of the PENN State stars and commits havent left yet. But I know it coming. Schools will pick these scholar athletes up.

Personally, I feel what happened at Penn State was egregious and that the football program should have been shut down for a year or two. The death penalty if you will.

Penn State will and needs to rise above this atrocity. And I am positive they will.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:59 pm

superjawes wrote:Overall, I think the pnishment is fair. Even the reduction in scholarships, hurting the team, makes sense because the "football first" attitude is partly what caused this disaster. An all-inclusive culture will better serve children, the school, and Penn State football better in the long run. Players who lost wins, eh, not that big of a deal, I think, because if they are still good players and people, they could end up with a decent NFL or "real" career. That mark is mainly to remind people of that systematic protection of child abuse.

The only thing I don't agree with is the postseason suspension. I understand it, but if the team can play well enough with a gimped roster, they deserve a shot at a bowl game...IF THEY EARN IT.

The bowl ban is all about money, as that's where the really big money is in college football. I could go with bowl attendance if all the $$ go to the same place as the $60MM fine.

Assuming the Freeh Report is 100% true, Penn State football should have been put down for as long as Sandusky was abusing kids. We all know that in big football schools the football coach runs the campus. A 12-15 year stint without football would allow even the most irretrievably broken University administration the time to ensure that the next football coach is a mere employee.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:02 pm

What the NCAA said today is that they will NEVER terminate a football program. How much worse do you have to allow someone to behave, and how much more do you have to cover up, to get that kind of punishment? The scholarship players will transfer and can carry their scholarships with them, so I don't think anybody playing football at Penn State is being "punished" all that badly.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Captain Ned wrote:The bowl ban is all about money, as that's where the really big money is in college football. I could go with bowl attendance if all the $$ go to the same place as the $60MM fine.
Okay, I can see that and completely agree with bowl money going to charity. I think any players who still choose to play for Penn State deserve the same shot as any other NCAA player, but the team and school have to change focus. Four years or more operating as a nonprofit would be fair. ALL money not going to operating costs, basic salary, or reduced scholarship funds should go to a charity program, even if the NCAA didn't demand it. Penn State should do it because it would be the right thing to do.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:07 pm

I'm objecting to the attempt to change the record books.
Sure, it gets the Paterno name off the records but it also is meaningless and is more of a punishment to former players.

In every other case, it has been players doing something wrong. In thise case the players are doing nothing wrong but the punishment hurts them more than it hurts anyone in the admin.
None of them are going to lose a paycheck.
Last edited by danny e. on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:07 pm

I don't think former players give a ****. They know what they won. If they do it's time to move on with life.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:09 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:I don't think former players give a ****. They know what they won. If they do it's time to move on with life.

If people should move on and not give a **** about record books, then why include that in the penalty?
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:14 pm

That's about erasing Paterno's name. I'm specifically talking about the former players. They know what they won, record books be damned. But getting rid of Paterno's existence. Everybody wants to protect him by claiming that the punishment handed down hurts others. When in reality they just don't want to see their heroes dismantled.

FWIW I think he's a convenient scapegoat (being dead and all) getting more than his fair share of the blame. That's not to say he doesn't deserve to have everything vacated and his image tarnished. He's just being used to divert attention from the living who need to go to prison.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:19 pm

They should sack the complete administration and school board if they want to get everyone who should have known and done something about it. This penalty is a joke.

[edit]If everyone was at fault we should see a number of law suits vs the school and people working there for child endangerment, ect. If they don't go after everyone that was "involved" they won't fix anything just damaging a football program. Right now the rest of the administration it getting off with no real penalty.[/edit]
Last edited by tfp on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Regardless of all the talk of what is too much, fact of the matter is, a very very strong message needed to be sent and I think the message has been received..........................who is going to protect the most vulnerable if the folks entrusted with that do not do the right thing.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:44 pm

danny e. wrote:Sure, it gets the Paterno name off the records but it also is meaningless and is more of a punishment to former players.

Other than some bruised egos, how is it a punishment? Those games are still part of history, even if the stats don't reflect them. It doesn't change the historical video footage, the memories of the players and spectators who were there, or the post-college careers of any of those former players.

Paterno was tainted from the moment he looked the other way and made Sandusky's behavior "someone else's problem". Removing those wins from the record books is reasonable. Any hurt feelings on the part of the former players is acceptable collateral damage.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:12 pm

I grew up in PA and I have to say that this punishment passes the smell test only because the NCAA bent over backwards to make sure that the current players and incoming commits have every opportunity to transfer out without penalty. This is a rare situation where a major infraction took place without the players having *any* responsibility at all. The players usually have some responsibility in NCAA scandals like cheating in class, taking money from boosters, etc. In this case though, they really are collateral damage, although the damage from what Sandusky did and how PSU handled it are a billion times worse than monkey wrenches thrown in the college careers of these players.

As for the death penalty, the NCAA rules clearly state that the death penalty is only for an egregious violation that happens while a school is already being punished for an earlier infraction. For all the faults at PSU, they did not meet the conditions for the death penalty, so the NCAA was right to follow the rules and not enforce it. Frankly, if this were any other scandal there would be major cause for PSU to complain about the fact that all of the process that the NCAA is supposed to follow was tossed right out the window. The new president at PSU figured out that even though the NCAA threw out the procedural rulebook, complaining about the punishment would do even more damage so PSU is just going to accept the consequences and try to move on.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:32 pm

Paterno's legacy was ****, with or without the 112 wins being taken away. The taking away of the wins was to make sure he wasn't in any of the record books (I believe that this drops him to 12th on the all time list?). It doesn't change the fact that those wins happened. Ask any basketball fan who was in the 1992 and 93 title game, and all of them will say Michigan. Record books say no. same idea.

What's really going to hurt is the scholarships and the lack of bowl games. Its going to be a minimum of 10 years before anyone even thinks of Penn State football. Its not punishment enough, but it'll have to do.

Somewhere, the SMU people are chuckling.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:48 pm

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... th-penalty

NCAA should have stuck to its original plan.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:09 pm

I agree with everything but the vacated wins. Rewriting the history books is just a dumb idea.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:41 pm

adampk17 wrote:I agree with everything but the vacated wins. Rewriting the history books is just a dumb idea.

I dunno...I don't think you want to give "that behavior" any sort of reward. Even though there are significant actions being taken aside from the records, looking at the cover up and seeing a great record to show for it could send the wrong message.

Although now that I think about it, has the MLB done anything like this to players proven to have used performance enhancers? Or do they just mark it with a " * " ?
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:44 pm

adampk17 wrote:I agree with everything but the vacated wins. Rewriting the history books is just a dumb idea.


Do you disagree with this policy in general, or just in this case? Its pretty standard for wins (and championships) to be vacated when violations have been found to occur. In this case, I think the intention in this case is clear - they do not want Paterno's name mentioned whenever we talk about all-time wins leaders. The rationale for doing it is certainly a bit thin however.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:03 pm

As someone who moved from out of state to PA all I can say is good. The obsession with Penn State sports goes way too far, although I'm sure it's like that in other states too. The purpose of these sanctions is to put college sports in the proper perspective so maybe it will make schools nationwide reflect on that.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:58 pm

Turkina wrote:
adampk17 wrote:I agree with everything but the vacated wins. Rewriting the history books is just a dumb idea.


Do you disagree with this policy in general, or just in this case? Its pretty standard for wins (and championships) to be vacated when violations have been found to occur. In this case, I think the intention in this case is clear - they do not want Paterno's name mentioned whenever we talk about all-time wins leaders. The rationale for doing it is certainly a bit thin however.


I can agree with vacating wins in the case of a team or player cheating and gaining an advantage on the field. Otherwise, like in the Penn State ordeal, no.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:25 pm

I think the message being sent is that coaches and administrators who put their program and legacy ahead of the students and community will have them expunged... based on the email evidence, Paterno put his program and legacy first. This seems like a natural consequence of those decisions.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:00 pm

Looks like some of the PSU Board Members are challenging the sanctions.http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... al-lawsuit
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:36 pm

Not a surprise, they need to cover their butts.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:34 am

No one at the University right now had anything to do with what happened. They're punishing the future for mistakes of the past. Knocking down the number of scholarships? They're not giving those to any other schools, right? So 45 kids that otherwise would have gotten a college education now may not. $60,000,000 fine from a state funded school? Do you REALLY think the boosters are gonna donate money that isn't going to the school? So who ends up paying for it? Regular students and/or tax payers.

Was something wrong done? Absolutely. But I don't believe its the NCAA's job to police that. What NCAA rules were broken? I don't believe so. They're trying to punish a dead man by punishing people who had nothing to do with his crime. You can't punish the dead, and its just dick wagging to try and make that point at this juncture.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:18 am

rogue426 wrote:How are the players being punished? Everyone of them has the option to transfer and not sit out the usual required season before playing again.


Because for most college students - even football players - transferring to another school can be a major expense. Not to mention a disruption of their education, and of their social lives... and for what? What did the players do, exactly? Most of the current players weren't even at the school while these crimes were taking place, and yet they're having their lives disrupted.

Sandusky will rot in prison for the rest of his life - which may not be long at all if he isn't kept in isolation. He deserves all that and more.

But the scumbags who covered for him all those years... not just at the university, but apparently the police department as well - they're really getting off pretty lightly when you think about it. Even with the $60 million fine and loss of revenue... all that's going to happen is that the university will cut funding to other programs, many of which have nothing at all to do with football or even sports.

Don't get me wrong... the crimes we're talking about are utterly despicable, and there is a ton of punishment due; it just seems to me that an awful lot of it is falling on people who had nothing at all to do with the crimes.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:26 am

tfp wrote:Not a surprise, they need to cover their butts.

Definitely. The "deal" was worked out without Board involvement, yet the main finding of the Freeh Report was that the Board was not involved in monitoring the athletic dept.
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Re: Penn St punishment

Postposted on Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:18 am

Corrado wrote:No one at the University right now had anything to do with what happened. They're punishing the future for mistakes of the past.

Although the people directly responsible are no longer there, the NCAA also wants to ensure that the mindset which enabled this tragedy to occur is wiped out for good. Their intent is obviously to send a message that will be remembered by current and future coaches and administrators for decades. Yes, "the future" is effectively collateral damage, and I agree that isn't entirely fair to the innocent people who will potentially be affected; but given the apparent pervasiveness of the attitude that the football program trumped all else, IMO the collateral damage is acceptable.

Corrado wrote:They're not giving those to any other schools, right? So 45 kids that otherwise would have gotten a college education now may not.

Well, they're allowing existing students who are there on scholarship to transfer their scholarship to other schools if they want. So at least the current students are unaffected by the reduction in scholarships. Going forward, whether it reduces the total number of football shcolarships available conference-wide depends on whether all of the other NCAA schools tend to hit the cap every year. I have no idea whether this is the case.
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