First Build, need some help

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First Build, need some help

Postposted on Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:17 pm

I decided to build a computer for the first time and i've run into trouble deciding which parts I should use.
Some recommendations would be very helpful. I don't want to spend a lot of money. I would love to be able to keep this around $1000

Here's what I have so far:
CPU: Intel Core i5-3550 209.99
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V 149.99
CPU Cooler: Need Suggestions
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) 89.99
Storage: No need, have this Intel 520 series 180GB
Video Card: Need suggestions
Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX 79.99
Power Supply: Need Suggestions
Optical Drive: Need Suggestions

Help would be Greatly appreciated, I don't have much experience and need some help with some of these parts.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:52 am

Orange wrote:I decided to build a computer for the first time and i've run into trouble deciding which parts I should use.
Some recommendations would be very helpful. I don't want to spend a lot of money. I would love to be able to keep this around $1000

Here's what I have so far:
CPU: Intel Core i5-3550 209.99
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V 149.99
CPU Cooler: Need Suggestions
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) 89.99
Storage: No need, have this Intel 520 series 180GB
Video Card: Need suggestions
Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX 79.99
Power Supply: Need Suggestions
Optical Drive: Need Suggestions

Help would be Greatly appreciated, I don't have much experience and need some help with some of these parts.



@CPU
The i5 3550 costs ~$210 while the first unlocked SKU, the i5 3570k, costs ~ $230. My advice is to compromise on RAM, as in get 8 GB dual channel kit and with the money saved you can buy the 3570K.

@RAM
The RAM kit bellow should suffice and it only costs $40 compared to the 16Gb kit you first chose which costs $89,99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148544

@CPU cooler
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus, it costs $30,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835103065

I don't see a reason to buy the simillar performaing but slightly more expensive Evo edition, but if you want to reinvest the 30$ you saved from changing the RAM (actually you saved 50 but 20 will go to the CPU upgrade) you could buy something like a Thermalright True Spirit 140 or the Archon. But whichever you choose mind the CPU cooler clearance needed for the case.

@PSU
There are so many compelling offerings lately, but they are not all from well trusted brands but given the high efficiency rating, one must consider them. Please read the reviews for each one of them before deciding. Here are a few notable offerings:

Gold rated:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817182068
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817182071
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817104097
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151098
Platinum rated
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817182081
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817182082
Last edited by Arclight on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:55 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:01 am

You should take a peek at the TR System Guide
i7 860 - GA-P55-USB3 - 8GiB - HD7850 - SSD - 3.64TB HDD - Xonar D1 - U2410 - Win7 Pro x64.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:54 am

I think you're pretty much looking at the Sweet Spot from the system guide as you already have the SSD, you'll be right at or below your budget. http://techreport.com/review/23422/tr-b ... em-guide/4

I'm building a system right now and I used the motherboard, optical drive, and power supply from the guide - no complaints. If you've considered getting a Bluray drive, the prices have reached a level that I would call reasonable - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827136250. Video card will depend a lot on both your monitor and gaming needs. The 660 Ti is a great price/performance card, but if you need more performance or less price, you can look at the 670 or the 660 (non-Ti), respectively. AMD also has some great offering right now as well, I think the 7850 and 7870 would fall approximately into the price range of this level of system.

I considered the H2 case from the guide as well, but for $10 more, I went with the Define R4 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811352022. I love the look and it has been great to work in. Cases are a very personal thing, but get one that is good quality that you like as it can easily last you a few builds, even if it costs a few more dollars. I'm finally replacing my antec P180 that I've had for over 6 years and gone through 4 different builds and it still holds up pretty well. Even then, it will continue service with its current build for the foreseeable future, but it will no longer be my primary.

I would second the suggestion to drop RAM to 8GB and apply the extra cash to getting a 3570K and one of the Hyper 212 coolers. Even if you don't intend to overclock now, it could be a cheap and easy way to increase performance a few years down the road. If you have a Microcenter store nearby, I think that will be your best source for the CPU as their B&M pricing is unbeatable most of the time.

I always give myself a week or two to buy all the components in order to take advantage of any sales/combos/etc. I check slickdeals daily and TR will often post good component deals on the frontpage as well. Do set yourself a deadline, though, and don't look at prices after the fact - there will always be a better deal down the line, but get the best price you can when you need it. I usually shop Newegg and Amazon - it has to be a pretty amazing deal for me to buy outside those two - it's usually not worth the hassle otherwise.

Good luck and have fun!
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:38 pm

Those helped a lot, thanks. Here's the new version taking into account some of the suggestions.

CPU: Intel i5 2570k
Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LK
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB)
Graphics: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB
Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX
PSU: SeaSonic X Series 560W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V
Optical: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS

Totals about $850
Anything else you think i've missed or should change?
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:59 am

Orange wrote:Those helped a lot, thanks. Here's the new version taking into account some of the suggestions.

CPU: Intel i5 3570k
Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LK
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB)
Graphics: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB
Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX
PSU: SeaSonic X Series 560W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V
Optical: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS

Totals about $850
Anything else you think i've missed or should change?



Sweet build bro.

The only thing i would suggest now, since you still have some cash to play with (u said the budget would be ~ $1000), would be to use a slightly better mobo and i would suggest the one from the link bellow:
ASUS P8Z77-V
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131820
The reason? More heatsinks for the VRMs

One last thing, idk if this is your fist build, but if anything goes wrong just remember you have warranties for everything so just try not to brake the warranty terms and you'll be fine.

Also remember that the pins for Ivy CPUs are not on the CPU but on the mobo socket and many people screwed up their mobos by bending the pins. Be carefull, apparently warranties don't cover bent pins if you can't prove that the damage was not caused by you.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:26 am

I thought I'd throw this out there first. I'll work on an intel build as well, but your bang for the buck gaming doesn't get much better than this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvXs

If you oc the 965BE on the stock cooler to 980BE levels or use the hyper 212 plus to push 4ghz+, you won't get a cpu bottleneck in games.

This msi mobo is inexpensive, feature rich, and will let you push that 965BE. You can upgrade to Piledriver FX later if you want.

I picked 2x4GB of DDR3 1600 that is decent latency, low profile, low voltage, and a name brand. You can add more later if you want.

Here's a 1TB storage drive for music, pics, and movies. I imagine the ssd is for window 7, games, and other apps. Take it or leave it.

Play games at 5760x1200 on this gpu at stock speeds. It overclocks like a beast as well. Staus cool and quiet too. Lifetime warranty.

This case is wide for a mid tower, allowing for installation of tall cpu coolers. It has both front intake fan and bottom psu dust filters, a couple
120mm fans, cable management, 2 hdd bays(top 1 is removable/rotates to fit extra long video cards), options for more fans, dedicated ssd
cage at bottom can be moved to the top of the bottom hdd cage to fit a extra long power supply, cpu cutout for easy install/removal of tower
cpu coolers with backplates, 3.5in/5.25in drive bays that convert to extra 1.8in/2.5in ssd slots if required, top mounted usb and audio ports
and a spot to lay stuff down on top. It looks a little chunky, but you can get similar features on a more svelte antec 300 two at a bit more coin.

This xfx psu has a 44A +12v rail(528w), ball bearing fan(longer lasting), 1 pcie 6+2 pin and 1 6pin, and lots of other standard connectors. It is
jonnyguru.com recommended. jonnyguru is friends with hardwaresecrets who know how to properly test a psu. 5 year warranty. seasonic built?

Retail blu-ray burner with 3d and lightscribe support. The mobo comes with 2 sata cables, so you need another(ssd,hdd,optical). Software, too.

Microsoft Windows Home Premium SP1 64 bit OEM: You either have a retail copy you can transfer from another computer, or an oem copy
from either a custom built pc or a store bought one. If you have a retail copy skip this, but if not you are going to need it. You can get an
upgrade to Window 8 if it massively boosts Piledriver FX, or just wait until Windows 9.

I like to look at newegg for specs and customer reviews, but right now ncix has a lot of these parts for much cheaper than newegg. In fact,
some of these parts are even cheaper at ncix and newegg right now than the pricing listed on pcpartpicker. The total before rebates is a few
bucks more than a grand, and a few bucks cheaper than a grand after rebates. Click the hd7970 at newegg and 550w psu at ncix for prices.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:55 pm

jtenorj wrote:but your bang for the buck gaming doesn't get much better than this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvXs


Scott's most recent CPU article shows you that unless you don't care about gaming smoothly, AMD are years behind Intel.

Sure, the average FPS numbers might be competetive, but when we look at FPS charts, we are really trying to guage is what really matters - smoothness, which is consistent frame times.

For a gamer's money, AMD is a poor choice and things won't run as smoothly. For non-gaming tasks, AMD are priced competetively. I don't hesitate to recommend them where they're suitable.

For what it's worth, your updated build looks solid. jtenorj is right about OS, you can't legally transfer an OEM license to another PC. If you don't have W7 retail, pick up Windows 8 (cheap) and downgrade to W7 if you can't stand it.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:59 pm

Here is the intel build. A little different than the one you got going. Check it out:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hwEn

Went with i5 2500K. It'll OC like crazy while staying cool on a hyper 212 plus. No ddr3 1600 or pcie 3.0, but who cares?

This msi mobo will let you push the i5 2500k and has both usb 3.0 and sata 6gbps. You can drop in more ram if you want.

Went with 2x4GB of ddr3 1333 that is decent latency, low profile, low voltage, and the same name brand as the last build.

This build has the same HDD as in the 965BE build. Your choice if you want a storage drive for stuff besides os and apps.

This gpu will overclock past hd7970 levels, allowing you to enjoy games at 5760x1200 if you want.

The case, power supply, optical drive and os are all the same as the 965BE build. The total is a few bucks over 1000
before rebates and a little under 950 after 75 dollars worth of rebates. Your screen resolution, games you play, desired
settings and app mix will determine whether you go with 965BE and hd7970 or i5 2500K and hd7950. I hope these help.

Edit: go 965BE and hd7970 if gaming is a higher priority, go i5 2500k if gaming is less of a priority and you want to get work done faster
and use less wattage while both working and gaming. I live in an apartment where power use is included in a fixed monthly rent, and I
don't do much cpu intensive work myself. I know which setup I would pick(gaming, all amd). Your system usage and power bill may vary.

Chrispy_ wrote:
jtenorj wrote:but your bang for the buck gaming doesn't get much better than this:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvXs


Scott's most recent CPU article shows you that unless you don't care about gaming smoothly, AMD are years behind Intel.

Sure, the average FPS numbers might be competetive, but when we look at FPS charts, we are really trying to guage is what really matters - smoothness, which is consistent frame times.

For a gamer's money, AMD is a poor choice and things won't run as smoothly. For non-gaming tasks, AMD are priced competetively. I don't hesitate to recommend them where they're suitable.

For what it's worth, your updated build looks solid. jtenorj is right about OS, you can't legally transfer an OEM license to another PC. If you don't have W7 retail, pick up Windows 8 (cheap) and downgrade to W7 if you can't stand it.


Yes, I read that article as well. The PIIx4 980(or mildly OCed 965BE) is the fastest AMD cpu for gaming(right now) and sits close to the older
i5 760(represents i5 2300 in this test) but is much cheaper. The older i5 760 and i7 875k are fine for gaming, sandy and ivy are just a little
better. If you push 965BE to 4ghz+(totally doable) you enter i5 760 and i7 875k territory while costing much less. Enough to bump an intel
build with hd7950(like what was used in the article) to hd7970. In something like battlefield 3(tested in singleplayer mode so results are
repeatable) where we are gpu limited, the 7970 and a 4ghz+ quad core 965BE should allow for even better performance( and frag online
smoother than something like the i5 655K that represents socket 1155 core i3s in this article). I guess I am saying that for an unlocked cpu
that does so well for the price versus much more expensive options that don't really give you more in gaming, the 965BE is a tremendous
value right now(especially if it lets you bump up the graphics muscle and stay within budget). Also, look at this sneak peek of Piledriver FX:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/13 ... erformance

PIIx4 980 trades blows with i5 2300 in these multithreaded tests, and FX8350 trades blows with the i7quads. More games are using
extra threads all the time, and both the amd procs are unlocked and fairly overclockable, but that i5 is not. If overall performance and
price is right for fx8350, it will make for a great upgrade on am3+. I believe steamroller may be on that socket too. There may be another
speed bump or two yet for ivy, but haswell will be on LGA1150. If you go intel for a while with i5, you are done as far as upgrading, but if
you go amd you can get a nice speed boost soon if you want and may be able to get something even better after a while longer. If required.

Also, I have recommended the gpu reviews of the last year or so here on techreport to others on other forums, and have actually used that
graph you linked from the last page as a selling point for a really cheap 965BE and cheap but feature rich and powerful amd mobo versus both
the much more expensive LGA1155 i5 quads and the inferior LGA1155 i3s. LGA1156 i5 quads and i3s were great values because you could
overclock them to 4ghz+ on a decent air cooler(i3s on the the stock intel cooler, in fact). Current i3s and i5s are not such great values
compared to the likes of 965BE because you get less cpu on the low end and pay a lot more for not much more bang on the high end with intel.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:15 pm

If you're going to bring overclocking into this though, a 4GHz 965BE is going to be very hot and noisy when overclocked; It's a 125W chip before you even start to push it. it's not as if the 3570K doesn't overclock either; It starts at a much more managable 77W and you have a good chances of reaching 4.5GHz without even tweaking the voltages.

Orange doesn't need to make like difficult for himself though - he can afford a 3570k and a half-decent graphics card. When the graphics card falls behind the curve, he can just undo one screw and put in a new, better graphics card.

What the Ivy Bridge represents is a modern, power-efficient, state-of-the-art platform with architectural and feature-set benefits. It will definitely scale better in the future than a discontinued AMD architecture dating back to 2007, all whilst being cooler, quieter, and cheaper to run.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:15 pm

The stock AMD cooler will be noisy and do a mediocre job of keeping a 965BE cool at 980BE speeds, but a hyper 212 plus should have no
trouble quietly keeping the chip cool at around 4ghz or a little more. You are right about power draw, though.

I think of ivy as kind of a step back, as far as enthusiast overclocking is concerned. A lot of folks were hoping to push her over 5ghz, but
I guess the 22nm trigate architecture and fluxless solder don't agree. Seems intel went with thermal paste that was longer lasting but
less thermally conductive than better paste that may not have lasted as long. As a result heat gets trapped under the hood that not even
the best coolers can hope to speedily remove, limiting ivy's overclock potential compared to sandy. I never said intel's architecture wasn't
faster. the higher end i5s are faster at stock and much faster overclocked than 965BE. The point is that 965BE is enough, and the savings
let you get a better gpu and stay under budget. Games get more graphically intense as time goes on, leading to them being gpu limited
when you crank the settings to 11. A more powerful card now will have greater longevity. By the time Orange wants to upgrade again,
the best choice may well be a new socket for both intel and amd(though am3+ seems to be lasting a very long time). If we talk about

(inserting wall of text wedge here)

power use(at least in an environmental sort of way) we can also talk about electronic waste. The longer the now new gpu lasts, the longer
it is until another piece of kit adds to the local landfill. With sandy at 95 to start(maybe 130 with a 33% oc and a voltage bump) and
965BE starting at 125(maybe as high as 180 at 4ghz with some extra juice) you are looking at a 50w difference(of course a hd7970 will
use more power than hd7950 gaming. Though max tdp for each are 250w and 200w respectively, I think average power use in games is
190 and 140, it they truly mirror hd6970 and hd6950 in power consumption. More if overclocked, of course). The total difference is like
100w when gaming, and much less at idle. It's kinda like turning on a 100w light bulb for the duration of a gaming session, then turning
it off when you are done. I doubt that adds up to very much even over the course of several years( depends on how many hour per day
and days per week Orange games). If we don't give amd a little love, they go out of business, and cpu prices go through the roof.

If Orange will use this pc to get a fair amount of work done, an unlocked and overclocked LGA1155 i5 may well be a better choice. It will
get the job done faster and use less power in the process. If the primary focus(or only focus) is gaming, Orange can go with 965BE. It
will allow for a more powerful, longer lasting card to be included in the build without going over budget.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:14 pm

The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus is a fine cooler that is much better than the stock coolers from AMD and especially Intel (with their horrible mounting pins). The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo is slightly better than the Hyper 212 Plus. The video on the Newegg catalog page shows the differences between the Evo and Plus:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835103099
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:34 pm

Right now, the 212evo is 28 bucks at ncix, possibly more with shipping depending on if it is by itself or with other parts.

The 212 plus is 20 bucks at newegg right now after a ten dollar mail in rebate and free shipping.

Is the difference in noise and/or cooling performance big enough going from plus to evo to pay 40%+ more?

(my pc is having trouble playing back video right now(plays a bit, then pauses. also no sound)

Is it a big enough loss to notice if the rebate doesn't go through for one reason or another?
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:11 pm

I need to be honest with myself. If I had 1500 bucks to buy a new computer(everything, the tower and its contents, keyboard, OS, headset,
lcd and maybe mouse) I would probably go with a i5 2500K/z68 mobo and hd7950. The majority of graphics cards I've owned have happened
to be ati/amd(I am rocking a geforce 2mx right now, though) and I would get the the 2500k and overclock from 3.3 to 4.4(perhaps without
needing a voltage bump) on a cooler master hyper 212 cpu cooler. I wouldn't care about pcie 3.0 and ddr3 1600 because the OCed 2500k would
be more than fast enough for some time and I wouldn't get a screen with higher than 1920x1200 res(blu ray movies with black bars top and

(wall of text wedge)

bottom and space for onscreen controls,play older games with black bars on the sides without hassle, same height as my dead 1600x1200 crt
but wider allowing for dual window multitasking),so a custom cooled HD7950 I oc past HD7970 levels(and capable of pushing 3x the pixels
of my new screen) would last for some time. If I had that budget I would get a i5 2500k over 965BE without question, even though I don't
foresee myself doing any real serious cpu intensive workloads or heavy multitasking.(z68 has usb 3.0 and sata 6gbps) I would probably get
at least one decent sized ssd and maybe a couple of high capacity hard drives in raid 1. That's my current get a job and save for wish list.

Intel i5 and i7 processors (from sandy bridge on) support the latest instructions(965BE doesn't have avx, aes-ni or normal sse4) and some apps
support those instructions now(bulldozer/piledriver have a arguably more complete instruction set than intel's bridge processors do right now).

If sticking to a tight budget is a concern, the 965BE might be a better choice. I have recommended it to folks that have had say some parts
and want to upgrade the core and graphics for under 500 before rebates. It will allow for an upgrade path to a faster, more feature complete
processor and is decently fast at the present time for playing any title. I guess balance in a system is kinda important. Orange, do what u will.

Edit: 965BE is a better budget cpu than core i3 or below, though. maybe even A8 3870K is better 4 budget(if you oc heavily)than core i3.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:20 pm

jtenorj wrote:I would probably go with a i5 2500K/z68 mobo and hd7950


My mildly-overclocked 2500K and bone-stock HD7950 are more than adequate for 4MP gaming.

Given Ivy's 10% IPC advantage, I would probably recommend Ivy over Sandy now, because a really mild stock-voltage overclock for Ivy (say, 4.4GHz) is going to give you roughly similar performance to an "on the edge" 5GHz Sandy overclock, but Ivy will probably do that on stock cooling and barely breaking a sweat.

jtenorj wrote:965BE is a better budget cpu than core i3 or below, though

This is probably true, the exception being gaming. I had a 1090T on my desk for a while and it felt like a Core2 Quad. Fast but definitely still a bottleneck in graphically-simple, computationally heavy games like WoW and SupCom. I've never gamed on an i3 but all the benchmarks put it at only a minor disadvantage over a similarly-clocked i5. I guess it depends if you have a game that likes more than 2 cores, for those the AMD ought to be better. Unfortunately, there aren't many of those games around.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:25 am

I'm pretty sure IPC improvement is several percentage points lower than 10. You give Ivy too much credit.

I've heard of someone getting a 3570k up to 4.6 prime stable on a hyper tx3, but you're reaching with that 4.4 on a stock intel cooler bit.

Now a 73w LGA1156 i3 with its fluxless solder can get past 4ghz on a stock cooler, but I bet a 77w ivy i5 or i7 with crap TIM inside can't.

965BE IS a better budget GAMING cpu than an LGA1155 core i3. It's cheaper, you can get a feature rich mobo to push it for relatively cheap,
and the cost of a cooler that will push it equalizes it running 2 cores and can destroy i3 in quad core. More games are starting to take
advantage of quad core processors all the time(everyone tests graphics cards in bf3 singleplayer on a overclocked core i7. If you took some
results from multiplayer using a powerful gpu and both a LGA1155 core i3 and a moderate to heavily OCed 45nm/32nm amd quad, the amd would do ok while the i3 would fall on its face). You can see on the last page of that recent cpu article here at techreport how a stock 980BE
(a simple multiplier bump on the stock cooler for 965BE) outperforms an i5 655k(standing in for LGA1155 i3s) by a ways and hangs close to
i5 760 and i7 875K which don't significantly bottleneck games at this time(965BE would be roughly equal with a few more speed bins,good HSF
and a voltage bump). Even A8 3870K on a decent A75 mobo/HSF is better, but you lose all hope of an upgrade path doing that. 965BE on a
decent 970 mobo at least lets you upgrade to FX8350. Both require a little bit beefier power supply than a LGA1155 i3 does, though.

Edit: bulldozer FX kinda sucks. FX 4170 with its 4ghz+ base clock and 4 cores in 2 modules(kinda like 2 intel hyperthreaded cores) does ok
versus LGA1155 i3s but uses like twice the power(more if you overclock). fx8150(or better yet fx8120) can overclock a lot to perform like
an i7 quad in some tests(but uses even more power). Piledriver should be interesting. Some preliminary tests show it trading blows with i7
quads(both fx8350 and intel at stock) and both have unlocked multipliers allowing for overclocking(fx8350 will probably use more power tho).
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:19 am

I just realized that intel build I suggested didn't have a case. Here it is with the Antec 300 TWO:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hUBe

This case has 2 front mounted usb 3.0 ports on top of all the various features the HAF 912 has. Move rear 12cm fan to front intake behind
the dust filter there and set the hyper 212+ to exhaust upwards. Supports video cards up to 12.5 inches in length.

The build is a little over 1000 before rebates and a little under 1000 after rebates(shipping already figured in).
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:50 am

Everything you say is all true and good, but are continually missing the single most important thing in this thread:

Orange wrote:I decided to build a computer for the first time


This guy hasn't stated a desire to delve into hardcore overclocking with exotic cooling and messing around in a BIOS that he's completely inexperienced with.

Maybe he does and just hasn't said it yet, but I get the impression that he wants some basic advice for a decent system that just works, out of the box(es).
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:55 pm

Perhaps we should ask some questions about how this system will be used so as to optimize the parts for the purposes and stay on budget.

Orange, how will you prioritize your usage of this pc(gaming, work, basic stuff)? What res is your screen? What games do you play? What are
your desired settings(low, med, hi, very hi, extreme, ultra)? AA? Physx? 3d? If you will do work on here, what kind and how often? What sort
of storage might you require beyond using the ssd for os, games, and other apps(everything may fit on a 180GB ssd, but do you want to
risk losing everything in a moment with no chance of recovery?)? For around 1 grand, you might consider a blu-ray burner over a dvd burner.
Media prices are dropping(competitive with dvd on a cost per GB basis), recording times are faster, and you can cram more data on fewer
disks that need to be stored. Or get 2 decent capacity HDDs in raid 1 for fault tolerance, or 1 internal HDD and one external backup HDD.

You system use will help determine the best combo of processor, mobo, ram and gpu to do what you want and fit within your budget.

Oh, yeah. Do you really want to overclock, or are a i5 and gpu at stock speeds going to work for you(save money on cpu, cooler and mobo)?
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:21 pm

If you ever come back to this thread (and after the mess from the poster above me I understand if you don't), know that what you have here is very good. Really.

Orange wrote:Those helped a lot, thanks. Here's the new version taking into account some of the suggestions.

CPU: Intel i5 2570k
Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LK
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB)
Graphics: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB
Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX
PSU: SeaSonic X Series 560W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V
Optical: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS

Totals about $850
Anything else you think i've missed or should change?


I can only add a little bit of hard earned theory: that you want to make sure whatever enclosure you have has intake filters and has more intake than exhaust, if only a little, and that 560w is beyond overkill for one mid-range GPU. The extra power isn't a bad thing though, it's probably not much more expensive than the ~450W unit you'd need, and that Seasonic is really, really nice. Oh, and get the Hyper 212 Evo. You can spend a lot on cooling, but when you get around to exploring overclocking, it being dirty stupid easy on the 2xx0k line and all, you'll want to have spent at least that much. I've owned nicer coolers, but I also own the Evo and it's a damn nice cooler for the price.

To support your choices:
CPU: The 2xx0 line handles overclocking better than the 3xx0 line, in some parts at least due to Intel's low voltage stability focus for Ultrabooks and their incomprehensible choice to use sub-par thermal interface material between the heat spreader (the top of the 'CPU' fashioned out of steel that has all the stuff stamped on it) and the actual CPU die underneath on the 3xx0's. A move up to a 3770k, the fastest you can get without going to a different platform and higher price bracket, will only be at most 10% faster per clock for games with hyper-threading (which can also hurt games!) and generational efficiency gains. A 2xx0 will make up most of that difference, if not all of it, by being easier to overclock. And by easier I mean smaller increases in voltage needed to continue raising the core clock.

Cooler: Get the Evo.

Motherboard: You're good. Absolutely no reason to spend more to get connectivity you don't need, and you won't use extra power circuitry. I can explain why, but the gist is that it takes more than a slightly nicer board to make a relevant difference in overclocking, and it's still all luck of the draw.

Memory: No complaints. Very hard to go wrong these days.

Graphics: My exact choice without paying more.

Case: Intensely personal, so see above; computer cases/enclosures are just metal (usually) frames and boxes to put stuff in. If it meets your aesthetic and size requirements and can provide filtered airflow, you're good. Positive airflow, that being greater intake than exhaust, ensures that your system doesn't pull in air through the cracks, and filters go a long way toward keeping the dust off of your stuff. Done right, your system will have dirty filters after a few months, but everything inside may still look clean and new. Just clean the filters.

PSU: Overkill, but very hard to go wrong with a nice Seasonic (and it's not like you're trying to get some 850W monster). It's a good spot to pinch pennies if needed, though.

Optical: Mostly doesn't matter. You can install Windows from a USB drive, and if you're going to install it more than once (and you may!), setting that up is quite a bit faster than using an optical drive in my experience.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:17 am

@airmantharp:

You weren't talking about my post, were you? DId you read the whole thread? I wish there was a form for this sort of thread like on Tom's.
That way we can help Orange get the best parts under budget to best meet the needs for the build.

What is a i5 2570K? Did Orange mean to type i5 2500k or i5 3570K?

Little difference in cooling between 212 plus and 212 evo. Bigger difference in price.

The ram better be on Asus' QVL.

I agree about the case. That's why I suggested both the HAF 912 and Antec 300 TWO for about 50 bucks each. Orange could even go for a
fractal Design Define R4 on sale for $80 shipped at newegg today(everything on the 912 and 300 2, plus side window and sound dampening).

I suggested a xfx 550w on sale for dirt cheap. Not modular, but that's part of what cable management is for.

Opticals can come in handy for lots of things. I'd rattle off a list, but it's several hours past late late here.

Good morning, good afternoon, and good night...zzz...zzz...
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:18 pm

jtenorj wrote:@airmantharp:

You weren't talking about my post, were you? DId you read the whole thread?


Yes, and no. Your posts above are formatted in a way to be almost unintelligible.

-40% of the price difference of the coolers is still just a few dollars in the bottom line, a fraction of a percent. That's the number that matters. The Evo is quieter, it's worth a few bucks.

-QVLs are so far from inclusive of actual retail availability that they're damn near useless. Worth a look of course, but nowhere near a show-stopper.

-The R4 would be the best he could get, really, without spending significantly more.

-Cheap XFX vs. a nice Silverstone? How about a '90s Kia instead of a Toyota? Really?

-Of course optical drives come in handy- it's just that it really doesn't matter which one you pick.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:33 am

Sorry about the formatting. I have been putting in forced carriage returns when I should be letting the text wrap. Now I know better.

My understanding is that the only difference between a plus and an evo is the fan. The evo's is a bit faster(a bit more airflow but a bit louder), while the plus' is a bit slower(a bit less airflow but quieter). The small differences aren't worth the price premium for the evo, imho.

The xfx 550w is an excellent psu. Several professional reviews(on sites that know what they're doing) and newegg user reviews agree.
Edit: built by seasonic, ball bearing fan, 5yr warranty, can deliver more clean power than its rating at higher than ambient temps.

Edit: some people with asus boards have had issues posting at first boot when using ram not on the QVL.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:07 am

jtenorj wrote:My understanding is that the only difference between a plus and an evo is the fan. The evo's is a bit faster(a bit more airflow but a bit louder), while the plus' is a bit slower(a bit less airflow but quieter). The small differences aren't worth the price premium for the evo, imho.
That's not it.
JustAnEngineer wrote: The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo is slightly better than the Hyper 212 Plus. The video on the Newegg catalog page shows the differences between the Evo and Plus:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835103099
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:25 pm

Alright. I was wrong about the speeds, but right about the airflow and noise(at top speed). I didn't know about the difference in heatpipe spacing on the bottom of the heatsink, but are there benchmark tests out there that compare the plus and evo? What is the actual difference in cooling? Is the difference big enough to justify the additional cost of the evo over the plus?
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:26 pm

jtenorj wrote:Alright. I was wrong about the speeds, but right about the airflow and noise(at top speed). I didn't know about the difference in heatpipe spacing on the bottom of the heatsink, but are there benchmark tests out there that compare the plus and evo? What is the actual difference in cooling? Is the difference big enough to justify the additional cost of the evo over the plus?


Why are you still harping on a difference of a few dollars.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:52 pm

It may be a small amount in the entire build cost, but the price increase to get an evo over a plus is a relatively high component cost increase that should have a similarly high performance increase to be justifiable.
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Re: First Build, need some help

Postposted on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:17 pm

jtenorj wrote:Alright. I was wrong about the speeds, but right about the airflow and noise(at top speed). I didn't know about the difference in heatpipe spacing on the bottom of the heatsink, but are there benchmark tests out there that compare the plus and evo? What is the actual difference in cooling? Is the difference big enough to justify the additional cost of the evo over the plus?


According to frostytech the Evo is a whopping 1C cooler with 150W of heat, and 3dB quieter. The cheapest 212+ online is $23 (tigerdirect) compared to $31 (newegg) for an Evo. So you are basically paying $8 for 1C and 3dB.

I don't think it really matters a whole lot which one you choose. On one hand $8 is almost nothing in the grand scheme of a desktop PC, but on the other hand 1C isn't going to make any difference in your overclocking ability either. If 1C makes an overclock unstable then you are going to have problems with ambient temperatures too.

3dB could be a decent benefit if you are trying to build a very quiet PC though (as long as your other components are quiet enough for it to matter)
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