Job hunting

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Job hunting

Postposted on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:28 pm

So, I'm actively looking and have resume's prepped and ready to go. I want a job that doesn't pay absolute crap for the work and stress involved. Right now I'm making 28k/year pre-tax for a job that comes with significant stress and unpaid OT. It has benefits, but they're pretty abysmal and I don't use 'em (my wife's got better bennies at her job so I'm on her insurance).

Here's the dilemna; my employer, last year, changed their OPPM and now requires a 4 week notice for any full time staff person. If you don't, you go to a non-rehire status.

I'm 90% sure that most jobs won't want to wait that long and I don't blame 'em.

Do I hand in my notice now before I have a new job? Do I just give 'em the standard two weeks and tell 'em tough and accept the non-rehire status?

I honestly don't know which to do; both carry significant potential draw backs.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:39 pm

Unless you're OK with potentially being unemployed I would not give notice until you've got an offer on the table. If the new employer is willing to wait 4 weeks then you're golden. If they're not, then you get to decide whether you're willing to piss off the current employer in order to take the new job.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:40 pm

just brew it! wrote:I would not give notice until you've got an offer on the table. If the new employer is willing to wait 4 weeks then you're golden.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:49 pm

More of the same, but yeah, don't make a bad situation worse. Make sure you have a new job locked in whether you do the 4 week wait or not. Being unemployed is terrible, and it's easier to get a job when you have a job.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:17 am

If you wouldn't want to go back there, what difference does it make if they mark you as no rehire? The only thing I can think is that another employer might ask, in which case you can explain it (at least give two weeks notice though).
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:26 am

If you wouldn't want to go back there, what difference does it make if they mark you as no rehire? The only thing I can think is that another employer might ask, in which case you can explain it (at least give two weeks notice though).


It's mostly not wanting to have employers find out I'm not eligible for rehire. I've never had that status at any job and really don't want to start.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:05 am

Ditch the job and move far away from USA as possible. $28000 is crap money. You can make that in 3rd world countries.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:52 am

marvelous wrote:Ditch the job and move far away from USA as possible. $28000 is crap money. You can make that in 3rd world countries.

Exactly what fringe breed of special moron are you?
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:50 am

Never Burn your bridges unless you never ever plan to use them again.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:37 am

paulWTAMU wrote:
If you wouldn't want to go back there, what difference does it make if they mark you as no rehire? The only thing I can think is that another employer might ask, in which case you can explain it (at least give two weeks notice though).


It's mostly not wanting to have employers find out I'm not eligible for rehire. I've never had that status at any job and really don't want to start.


I doubt they would share that outside their company. Surely it's an internal thing so they don't re-hire you in the future. If your prospective new employer is doing a reference check, I can't imagine your current employer giving them information.

Echo others...don't give your notice until you have a job in hand.

Also, +1 on what Meadows said.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:12 am

What JBI said. Get an offer and then decide. Honestly speaking if you're working in a sweatshop, I wouldn't care about the no-rehire status. Seriously, $28K + OT? You would not be able to survive on that around here. I would get out as fast as possible and never look back. $14/hour is something you can find in lots of places. No need to be killing yourself for these pennies. I also bet their turnover rate is quite high.

Btw, my first full-time job paid similar money around 7 years ago which was barely survivable money back then. The job was miserable and pathetic. Every day I went to that job like it was my electric chair. Technically they fired me but in reality I would've left on my own if they didn't. I never looked back and was glad I don't work there anymore.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:38 am

do you have any vacation time accumulated ? those days count against the notice period - i have given 4 weeks notice and started at the new job 2 weeks later, and gotten paid by both during the overlap...

otherwise, wait until you get a firm offer, if the new place is not willing to wait & its a better opportunity, take it and don't look back.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:42 am

cmm05089 wrote:do you have any vacation time accumulated ? those days count against the notice period - i have given 4 weeks notice and started at the new job 2 weeks later, and gotten paid by both during the overlap...

I am guessing that a company that would implement a "4 weeks notice required if you quit" rule would also have some pretty strict rules about advance notification of intent to take vacation...
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:43 pm

just brew it! wrote:
cmm05089 wrote:do you have any vacation time accumulated ? those days count against the notice period - i have given 4 weeks notice and started at the new job 2 weeks later, and gotten paid by both during the overlap...

I am guessing that a company that would implement a "4 weeks notice required if you quit" rule would also have some pretty strict rules about advance notification of intent to take vacation...


Probably, but that's only if you intend to come back after the vacation. :D I think he's talking about vacation payout if you leave for any reason. I've never worked anywhere that doesn't payout accrued vacation time, but I suppose the policies can vary so it's worth looking up - some places make distinctions between 'personal time,' sick time, actual paid vacation, and other forms of accrued leave. (ex: one place I worked paid out accrued vacation time, but not 'personal days' (so everyone just used them first) or sick time.)
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:26 pm

I am guessing that a company that would implement a "4 weeks notice required if you quit" rule would also have some pretty strict rules about advance notification of intent to take vacation...


Yep. No PTO may be taken after notice is given.

Honestly, I don't actually hate the job; it just doesn't pay enough, and there's no room to move up. I can only get by on feeling like what I do matters for so long.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:42 am

marvelous wrote:Ditch the job and move far away from USA as possible. $28000 is crap money. You can make that in 3rd world countries.


Stop your miss guided crap, $28000 per year is consider super salary in India and you can only make it if you are at management executive level.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:48 am

It might be a super salery in a 3rd world country, but in an industrialised western country, it is pretty low. And if you dont think that, we have very different frame of reference for what a low salery is.

Come to think about it, I think that is probably slightly less then what is considered minimum wage for any full-time employee around here, which is... usually people at first time jobs and shy of 20yo although we have a fair amount of taxes that eat up almost 30% of that not to mention the 20% or so that employer has on top of that. Dont know how that compares to overseas. Of course, it also depends if you are working with flipping burgers or have a technically inclined job. And yes, as a reference, I started my first full-time job at 28k(not adjusted for inflation) working on-site support a dozen years ago or so.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:49 am

Jigar wrote:
marvelous wrote:Ditch the job and move far away from USA as possible. $28000 is crap money. You can make that in 3rd world countries.


Stop your miss guided crap, $28000 per year is consider super salary in India and you can only make it if you are at management executive level.


Most of us don't live in India (no disrespect) , $28,000 is lower than entry level standards even for untrained/unskilled positions. You would struggle greatly to make ends meet with a wife/gf and a new kid and doubtless other bills. Cost of living I imagine is much higher here depending on where you live.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:31 am

As long as there are no strings on an offer, I don't think 4 weeks of notice should be a problem. Your new employer would need several weeks to get paperwork in order, so that way you would be less likely to burn a bridge. Even then, the strings attached to such an offer would probably have more to do with things like drug screens or security clearance. The first is easy to be safe on, and I've seen companies still bring people on before the security clearance has been granted.

And, of course, feel free to burn the bridge if you have to. After all, bridges allow people to go both ways. If they insist on locking out old employees, they are hurting themselves just as much as the employees.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:52 am

As far as some mythical "no hire" list, it may be illegal for your current employer to present that information to other potential employers. You may be able to sue them if they do that. There is a lot of protection for you provided by our legal system to prevent current employers from trying to ruin you on the way out the door. In fact as someone that hires, it is darned near impossible to get real information on how well someone did at their prior job.

There also may be legal limits on how much time you have to give notice. 4 weeks is a little over the top IMHO, and the draconian rules they have instantiated of a "no hire list" is great evidence they have no intention on trying to keep talent there by treating employees well, but by subtle almost illegal threats.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:28 am

Paul,
Did you sign a contract that specifically has the four weeks notice clause? If not, you are legally entitled to leave the job at any time:
Under the Doctrine of Employment at Will and in the absence of an explicit or implied employment contract that indicates otherwise, your employee rights entitle you to quit your job at anytime for any or no reason and without giving advanced notice.

If they changed this policy after whatever contract was signed, and you didn't sign the addendum, which again, specifically states this effects your previous contract, then you're also entitled to leave at any time.
As well, a 28k/yr job is pretty damn low, I don't know how the market is in Texas, but ouch. I would give them 2 weeks notice and if they give you any flak, ask them to provide proof of legal obligation to four weeks notice.

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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:33 am

The 4-week policy doesn't seem to be violating the law that you cite. He has the right to quit his job at anytime, but they probably have the right to not hire him back because of it. If I'm fed up with my job, I can just walk out and not give 2 weeks notice, but I would probably have a hard time getting an interview if I wanted to work there again.

My question for Paul is why he wants the option to return to this place. $28,000 a year is what I was making working as a grocery store cashier, so why would you want to go back to a job like that? Do you really like the people you are working with or are the benefits really good?
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:51 am

paulWTAMU wrote:Do I hand in my notice now before I have a new job? Do I just give 'em the standard two weeks and tell 'em tough and accept the non-rehire status?

First rule of wing walking: Do not let go with one hand until you have a firm grip with the other hand.

paulWTAMU wrote:Here's the dilemna; my employer, last year, changed their OPPM and now requires a 4 week notice for any full time staff person. If you don't, you go to a non-rehire status.
I'm 90% sure that most jobs won't want to wait that long and I don't blame 'em.
Exactly why are you "90% sure"?

If a company wants to hire you, a two-week delay isn't going to change their mind unless they're in desperate need for someone to fill that slot right freaking now. And if they're that desperate for any warm body, then they're not really looking to hire you - they're looking to hire anybody. Consider that this company probably has a new employee hiring cycle of about a month to (possibly) a year. The probationary period for most companies is the first 90 days. That's 90 days to figure out if they want to keep you as a full time employee. A difference of 14 days that only delays the start of that 90 days is not going to bother them over much.

What I've done in this situation is tell the recruiter/HR staff at my prospective company that your current employer needs 4 weeks to help manage transitions between skilled employees. This tells your new employer a couple things:
  • You are a skilled employee
  • You're honest and up front with them
  • You won't leave your new employer in the lurch if you ever decide to leave
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:00 pm

I agree with TurtlePerson2 - It seems to me that the "Employment At Will" principle does not apply here since they're not preventing him from quitting. If they were threatening to withhold COBRA coverage, or not pay him for his last 2 weeks, or something else of that nature, then yeah that would be illegal; but they're doing nothing of the sort. Telling someone (in effect) "You break company rules and we are going to think twice about hiring you again if you ever try to come back" does not seem actionable to me.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:07 pm

Jigar wrote:Stop your miss guided crap, $28000 per year is consider super salary in India and you can only make it if you are at management executive level.

You do not seem to understand "cost of living." The median income in the United States for 2012, per the US Census Bureau, is around $45,000/year. In most average-size cities (including Denver, Colorado, the area where I live) that will permit you to live comfortably as a single person in a decent 1-bedroom apartment, and have one car and one or two expensive hobbies. A family of three or four can live adequately on that amount of income but they'll need to budget carefully in order to survive emergencies such as unexpected car repairs or hospital expenses.

Someone working at paulwtamu's level of age and experience could easily be making $40k+ in middle-management or a skilled trade profession.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:09 pm

Him leaving before the four weeks should not be grounds for losing his PTO, or his PTO should be useable within that period, or paid out at some rate.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:27 pm

ludi wrote:
Jigar wrote:Stop your miss guided crap, $28000 per year is consider super salary in India and you can only make it if you are at management executive level.

You do not seem to understand "cost of living." The median income in the United States for 2012, per the US Census Bureau, is around $45,000/year. In most average-size cities (including Denver, Colorado, the area where I live) that will permit you to live comfortably as a single person in a decent 1-bedroom apartment, and have one car and one or two expensive hobbies. A family of three or four can live adequately on that amount of income but they'll need to budget carefully in order to survive emergencies such as unexpected car repairs or hospital expenses.

Someone working at paulwtamu's level of age and experience could easily be making $40k+ in middle-management or a skilled trade profession.

I think everyone responding to this has been continually misinterpreting each other. He's not saying paul's rolling in dough, he's saying the moron troll who called it a third world salary is wrong. Demonstrably wrong, in fact, based on how much money $28k is in India.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:43 pm

I've hired lots of people in the salary range you are probably looking for, in the technical and scientific fields, and I have never been bothered by a 4 week time to start. None of my peers have expressed any frustration with that type of delay either. In fact, much less than that can be a bother for big companies because it takes time to get benefits, facilities, IS, and other systems ready for a new hire. Once we had to wait 3 months because of relocation from out of state, and that was tough, but 2 more weeks should be no problem.

Also, the ineligible for re-hire question can come up in a reference check, but usually as a secondary concern after voluntary on involuntary termination. The most important questions for those checks are the time in position and last salary.

So, all in all, if you get a job offer and want to take it, I say go for it and negotiate as much time between as possible, but let the needs of the new job decide your strategy.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:14 pm

From UPS (in Texas), 'rehire status' was literally the only thing reported by the company to someone checking on a previous employee- and that employee's supervisor/manager determined it upon exit.

Being listed as 'ineligible for rehire' would make me not want to put that work experience down on a resume/job application; balancing how much you want to use your current employment as a reference.

Edit: Guys, remember that different things cost different amounts in different places. The range of cost of living in Texas is pretty wide, but compare any of us to California/the Northeast? Insane. $28k is livable for a single or married person, but children very quickly throw that equation out the window.
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Re: Job hunting

Postposted on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:18 pm

Airmantharp wrote:Being listed as 'ineligible for rehire' would make me not want to put that work experience down on a resume/job application; balancing how much you want to use your current employment as a reference.

In my experience the only thing previous employers will confirm is start and end dates. To go any further brings Legal into play and no one wants to play with Legal.
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