Wireless Camera?

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Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:33 pm

I need you to help me spend money. I'm not sure how to tackle the situation.

I would like to ideally have one-three (preferably) wireless outside cameras installed, which would keep a video recording for at least a few days. They will be installed on/around a building which has sheet metal both on the inside & outside--I need to bring internet access out there anyways. I'm handy enough with home networking to get everything working smoothly but I'm definitely not a pro. I have a few additional obstacles:

  • There is an existing network w/ internet installed....a few hundred feet away from where the cameras would be installed. I assume I'd need some sort of network repeater (advice on which?); I'll have to wheel the distance off. How would these "repeaters" work with existing routers? Would they require another router installed at the end of "the repeaters" to provide LAN access to the cameras?
  • I need to buy the cameras. I have no idea what brand/quality/accessories or features I should be looking for.
  • If the cameras are keeping even a small amount of recording, are there...NAS(?) combo deals with some products or would this require creating a small-powered server (I don't have one).

I'll take anything you tips/advice you can throw at me.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Wireless or wired nearby? Presumably wireless as you are talking about repeaters. Repeaters basically just take the weak signal and rebroadcast a strong one so you don't need to add anything else. How are you going to power them? If you do it with wired may want to look in to PoE so you just have to run Cat 5 to the cameras.

In Linux there is a software package called "Motion" that looks at camera feeds and only records when things move so that you don't burn through tons of storage and also make it easier to detect stuff going on. I guess there are similar things for other OS.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:13 pm

I don't know enough about wireless cameras to know how this puzzle will go together, only that I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff and have it not work :)

I assume I can get wireless cameras that either A) backup to some sort of close-by NAS with a wireless adapater and I view the content localized there or B) the cameras will back up to a harddrive elsewhere (server). But the closest network is a few hundred feet away...so I'd have to get some sort of wireless repeaters to push the signal that far, which I assumed was possible (and I want to get wireless internet to that location regardless). I'm just not sure on the hardware I'll need, and if I use some sort of repeater if I'd also need an additional router at the other end.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:47 am

Still been trying to resolve this issue without wasting a lot of money. Does anyone recommend a particular wireless repeaters and/or [outdoor] camera? I assume this is the route I need to go.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:43 am

I'll try to hash out something quickly...

Look at http://www.wlanparts.com/

Of course you can look anywhere, but I would start here. Look at their Wireless AP/Bridge. http://www.wlanparts.com/product/ENS200/Wireless-APBridge-Outdoor-7DBI-Panel-Antenna-80211bgn-400mW.html

If you have a PC in a secured building, download filezilla server. http://filezilla-project.org/

Search for any Wireless Outdoor FTP Camera. (Ebays a Good Source)

Setup Camera's to FTP Motion Captures to the FTP Server.


I've been doing this for years at construction jobsites. I usually have an Internet connection and the camera FTP's to the main office. I've caught a lot of thieves. Cheap cameras are generally ok for close up action however if you need anything at distance, get a least a megapixel camera. Check to make sure that the images of faces are clear. Although rare I've had a judge dismiss a case because he said the image was blurry, even though 10 people recognized him from the picture.


edit. check out all the bridges http://www.wlanparts.com/category/wlan.ezynet/
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:09 pm

DLHM wrote:I'll try to hash out something quickly...

Look at http://www.wlanparts.com/

Of course you can look anywhere, but I would start here. Look at their Wireless AP/Bridge. http://www.wlanparts.com/product/ENS200/Wireless-APBridge-Outdoor-7DBI-Panel-Antenna-80211bgn-400mW.html

If you have a PC in a secured building, download filezilla server. http://filezilla-project.org/

Search for any Wireless Outdoor FTP Camera. (Ebays a Good Source)

Setup Camera's to FTP Motion Captures to the FTP Server.


I've been doing this for years at construction jobsites. I usually have an Internet connection and the camera FTP's to the main office. I've caught a lot of thieves. Cheap cameras are generally ok for close up action however if you need anything at distance, get a least a megapixel camera. Check to make sure that the images of faces are clear. Although rare I've had a judge dismiss a case because he said the image was blurry, even though 10 people recognized him from the picture.


edit. check out all the bridges http://www.wlanparts.com/category/wlan.ezynet/


Thanks for the links! Before I go exploring I'll devulge my latest finds.

I read this article from Arstechnica, which didn't really answer my specific question about repeaters and just highlighted using outdated hack firmeware for routers. And I'm still unclear if using a router for increasing signal is better/worse than a repeater. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/07/ ... -repeater/

I wheeled off the distance today. The total distance is 167feet to the edge of the building where the cameras need to be from what would probably be a good wireless signal (N router with repeater settings, but it doesn't have dual band so I might have to upgrade it): http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Wireless- ... words=n300. I also have a building midpoint @ 77-100feet if I needed to install equipment on the inside of that for networking purposes.

I had originally hoped I could reach up to 200 feet but after reading reviews I think I'm delusional at best: http://www.amazon.com/Amped-Wireless-Wi ... mped+sr300. I'm hoping it would work well enough with a* router equipped properly.

I'll check your links for cameras and more equipment.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:44 pm

1000' of cat 5 is about $125. It's quite durable but you can get armored and buriable for $50 more.

You don't record days of data unless you don't know what you are doing. Any useful security program takes each frame of video and compares it to the last. If they are the same nothing happens, if not we record the video. Simple no need for massive hard drive space and you don't have hours of nothing to search through.

This is almost in the:

"Never underestimate the bandwith of a station wagon full of DVDs doing 60 mph."

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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:54 pm

PenGun wrote:1000' of cat 5 is about $125. It's quite durable but you can get armored and buriable for $50 more.

You don't record days of data unless you don't know what you are doing. Any useful security program takes each frame of video and compares it to the last. If they are the same nothing happens, if not we record the video. Simple no need for massive hard drive space and you don't have hours of nothing to search through.

This is almost in the:

"Never underestimate the bandwith of a station wagon full of DVDs doing 60 mph."

Category. Oh I hate myself. ;)


Have any brand/type of cameras to recommend? I've looked at that seem good until I gleam some additional detraction from a user review of someone who seems to know a lot more than me.

I believe I got your joke, and I see the search results, but I'm not exactly sure what to gleam from it. Thick I am I say.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:03 am

dashbarron wrote:
PenGun wrote:1000' of cat 5 is about $125. It's quite durable but you can get armored and buriable for $50 more.

You don't record days of data unless you don't know what you are doing. Any useful security program takes each frame of video and compares it to the last. If they are the same nothing happens, if not we record the video. Simple no need for massive hard drive space and you don't have hours of nothing to search through.

This is almost in the:

"Never underestimate the bandwith of a station wagon full of DVDs doing 60 mph."

Category. Oh I hate myself. ;)


Have any brand/type of cameras to recommend? I've looked at that seem good until I gleam some additional detraction from a user review of someone who seems to know a lot more than me.

I believe I got your joke, and I see the search results, but I'm not exactly sure what to gleam from it. Thick I am I say.


It does not matter much. The real cheap ones will be 400x300 but will show what happened, license plates ... not so much. A better one will do 720x560 and be quite revealing. HD cameras are getting cheaper all the time. Almost any NTSC or network camera should be supported. As someone mentioned Motion, a free program for Linux, does almost anything and it's code is out there to be looked at and used by anyone who cares.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:47 pm

After looking at this for...a few months now, it seems the simplest (and cheapest) approach will be just to bury 400 feet of cable.

Would I need to get shielded cable? The Ethernet will pass below power lines and are a few hundred yards from a large, I believe now inactive, electric fence.

It looks like I can buy direct burial cable, perhaps that would be easier than PVC? If Cat5e's signal stops over 300 feet, I'm going to have to crimp and do a repeater mid-route. Suggestions?

I've got a few router upgrades going in on both ends of this, so should be pretty swanky once I get the right wiring :)
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:52 pm

dashbarron wrote:Would I need to get shielded cable? The Ethernet will pass below power lines and are a few hundred yards from a large, I believe now inactive, electric fence.


When it comes to electric fences... believing they are inactive may be dangerous! :o

As for your cable, get outdoor/buriable rated cable and I don't think you'll have any interference issues.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:14 pm

Right on.

For cabling, I think 5e would be good enough but incase* I need to push security camera data and because of the distance, I might just spring for the 6 with the shielding: http://www.cablewholesale.com/specs/cat ... -722nh.htm

Didn't know how this worked beforehand, but it looks like I can use a standard gigabit router from the internet side, attach one of these POE extenders to the above cable, and bury it: http://www.cablewholesale.com/specs/poe ... -07112.htm

I shouldn't have to split it and the POE would provide power the entire 400 feet, I think? I've never had experience with the stuff. If anyone has suggestions for POE solutions/Ethernet extenders, let me know!

I plan to terminate the connection inside with another gigabit wireless router.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:54 pm

PoE has a limit of about 330 feet, not 400... And you can't really run multiple PoE cameras from a single-port PoE injector...
Personally I have used this, connected to main router:
http://www.amazon.com/Netgear-FS108PNA- ... gear+poe+8
I had only 4 PoE cameras, though (various Panasonic PTZ and non-PTZ models) and they were all interior models not too far from each other so I had no issues with distance limitations. For larger number of cameras Netgear also sells switches with larger amount of PoE ports... Or you could use individual single-port injectors - just connect them to each cable leading to individual cameras (basically it should be like this: IP PoE camera <--->PoE injector (if you prefer to use individual ones)<--->your router or non-PoE switch).
As for camera themselves - I wouldn't recommend using no-name junk "kits" you can find everywhere, go with dedicated cameras instead, by a well-known brands like Panasonic/Axis/Samsung/ACTi/Vivotek. If money are no object - take a look at Arecont :wink: Make sure to buy from "authorized" resellers - some brands won't honor the warranty if you'll buy them from "grey market" resellers.
B.t.w, if you're looking at DVR solutions for IP cameras - take a look at QNAP and Synology products, many of their NAS devices can be used for this purpose, just make sure that whatever cameras you'll select are on their compatibility lists for particular NAS model... Or just go with a spare PC (dedicated to DVR duties) and some paid/free DVR program - there are plenty of them :wink:
Also, there's a good forum dedicated to CCTV cameras/solutions (including IP cameras), take a look here, you might find more relevant info:
http://www.cctvforum.com/
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:42 am

Shielded cable can cause a bunch of issues with what voltage the shield is at, just get normal buriable cable and you should be OK. Ethernet cables are twisted pairs so the interference goes on both lines and cancels each other out.

If you are burying the Ethernet cable, you can also bury a power cable to go along with it and not worry about PoE distance.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:17 pm

JohnC wrote:PoE has a limit of about 330 feet, not 400... And you can't really run multiple PoE cameras from a single-port PoE injector...
/


Lots of goodies here, thanks JohnC. POE won't work then to cover the entire distance.... Thanks for the PoE switch listing, didn't know they were that cheap for a multi-port one (and didn't know what I was looking for), if I have to go this route).

notfred wrote:Shielded cable can cause a bunch of issues with what voltage the shield is at, just get normal buriable cable and you should be OK. Ethernet cables are twisted pairs so the interference goes on both lines and cancels each other out.

If you are burying the Ethernet cable, you can also bury a power cable to go along with it and not worry about PoE distance.


Righto. Go non-shielded. I wasn't sure if that was a better option to go with or not. Saves some bajingle that way too :) -- And I never considered actually burying juice with the Ethernet, interesting! But that still gives me an issues of having an extender somewhere in the middle of nowhere underground, hmm.

I might be able to halve the distance from a "nearby" secondary building and then push the remaining distance from there, although I didn't want to. I'd still have to have PoE cable because the distance would be about 200 feet, but it could work. Internet -- router -- PoE switch -- 200 feet of buried PoE Cat6 -- PoE switch -- 200 feet of PoE Cat6 -- router; and then camera or two if need be. This sound right?

I'll worry about cameras after I have the basic infastructure installed, and if not a NAS because of bandwidth reasons, then a "DVR" computer at the destination site is fine (a computer or two will need to go there anyways).

Thanks for all the great information, I'm referring back to all these posts when researching. I don't think I'm as incompetent as I sound, just trying to cross my T's as I explore new territory. Exciting stuff!
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:51 pm

Errr...if I have to stop mid-point and repeat the connection...do I even need PoE? Why can't I just use another small port router /switch?

Or have the PoE cable, a PoE extender underground / outside midway, and continue on to the end point router?
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:13 pm

Finally getting around to this project and ready to do some work. I need some help from people who know more about wireless networking than me. Would two of these products sync together to form a network, or do I need to buy one of these and some sort of receive to make the bridge? http://www.wlanparts.com/bitlomat-bt200 ... a-n-500mw/

Looks to be PoE, which is better for cabling if I have one of these 20 feet in the air on a pole.I don't see anything in spec sheet on range. Anyone able to understand the stats on this to have an idea?

I need to connect two points about 500 feet apart.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:48 pm

That's an Access Point, you need something that's a client to talk to it. Usually two APs will not talk to each other.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:18 pm

Ah, so something like this: http://www.wlanparts.com/ez-bridge-ezbr ... nt-system/ -- Thanks for comments.

Could I use a bridge product on one side then an access point on the other to save some cost? Is that purpose of the access points then?
Bridge: http://www.wlanparts.com/product/EZGO-0214/
Access Point: http://www.wlanparts.com/bitlomat-bt100 ... a-n-500mw/
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:35 pm

Those EZ-Go boxes are configurable as either AP or client, so I would just go with a couple of those rather than using the Bitlomat as well. Things are always a little easier to deal with if you only have one manufacturer's equipment.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:47 pm

You may not need a repeater if the area is relatively free of interference. I have a couple of Logitech outdoor cameras on the farm that are hooked up to an old Linksys 54GL router acting as a bridge and that's just over 600 feet away from the router in the house.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:16 pm

Deanjo wrote:You may not need a repeater if the area is relatively free of interference. I have a couple of Logitech outdoor cameras on the farm that are hooked up to an old Linksys 54GL router acting as a bridge and that's just over 600 feet away from the router in the house.


Holy lord. I can't get wireless signal the 500 feet I need to go (outside of building), and I'd generally like it inside the building, so I need at least some sort of...Access Point to redistribute to an internal wireless router. But the second device I listed is basically an access point which will receive and push back a signal, but can't act as a bridge device on it's own without a bridge device, I'm taking?
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:09 pm

I have finally purchased a bridge setup, exciting! Getting ready to do the installation later this week/weekend. Last piece of the puzzle: router!

Need wi-fi inside a 50x60 metal-sided building. Any concerns on wireless type I should be aware of? I'd like this router to support up to 4 IP cameras. Any NVR or recording to a server would be on this side of the network. Any suggestions/tips if I need something which can chug along more bandwidth? Anything besides just a regular gigabit router I should be looking for?
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:32 am

If you need wireless to go farther, don't use the omni-directional (default) antennas. Instead use directional antennas. Since the cameras will be in fixed locations, you can aim directional antennas at them (and back) and call it a day. With a good antenna pair, you can easily hit multiple 1000's of feet with standard WiFi.

Stuff like this:
http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wirel ... ntenna.php

All you need to do then is provide juice, which can be a lot less sensitive to lightning.
Also Amazon Wardriving, you will find other possible solutions.

The thing I worry about is lightning and Ethernet run outside when you don't have a properly shielded cable which is grounded well. No better protection for your PC than a wireless link.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:07 am

Thanks for the Advice liquids. Think I've got enough to try and buy/put this all together finally.
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Re: Wireless Camera?

Postposted on Fri May 02, 2014 11:02 pm

Thank you everyone that helped me lay the foundation for this. Cameras and a small server/harddrives are my next project, but for now I'm ecstatic to get the basis up and running (on first bridge project).

For what it is worth to anyone, here are some pictures!

Image

Old Dimension 1100 with Windows 7. Stands by with Pandora when it's not hooked up to a vehicle, checking the grain markets, doing weather checkups, file recording, etc.

Cost: $270 (monitor, stand, webcam, RAM, PCI* GPU).



Image

On the left is a snazzy new router, POE injector, wires coiled around an air line to the slave end of the bridge.

Cost: $180. Mousetrap not included.
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