Blu Ray Playback

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Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:08 am

I just installed windows 8 with media center and gues what! My version of Power DVD isn't compatible with my monitor, and there is still no native blu ray support in windows. I am broke as can be and don't want to pay for a flipping codec or software suite but I'm open to recommendations. If you could point me to a free solution I'd be even more thankful. Googling just got me lots of powerDVD recommendations and I don't care for that software as I already have it and it doesn't work.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:34 am

Is it just me or is it super lame that a CURRENT OS doesn't have native support for Last Gen standard in video media. Been trying the VLC hacks but non of them work.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:48 am

All I see on the internet is BUY powerDVD or Rip the son of a gun and be done with it. Silly that the copy protection on Blu ray would encourage piracy, lol.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:54 am

EDIT BY MOD - Captain Ned - Rule #1.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:07 am

I was under the impression that the latest VLC player did offer BD support ?? I agree with you that Windows should support BD in some way shape or form, but alas nothing yet. I've heard DVDpasskey lite did an adequate job, but I don't know that for a fact .... I have a BD burner on my Xmas list, but I had no idea it was such a mess in regards to playback of the media.

The only good deal I saw lately was the Black Friday deal for PowerDVD 12 Ultra (only Ultra supports BD) for $20 after rebate. Note that I am not a fan of it due to its constant need to upgrade to the latest version to play the latest BDs with the latest encryption on them ... its ridiculous that someone who bought PowerDVD 9 3 years ago now needs to buy v12 just to play newer BDs.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:23 am

I think PowerDVD 12 supports Windows 8. And yes, it sucks that you need to buy a new version, but coming from say v9 to v12 that's what, 3 years? You probably have changed your cell phone already.

All this pretty much re-affirms my plan to buy a standalone player to avoid all the hassles. Granted updating the player may still give me headaches but it seems to be less of a problem in general. And of course, I have my eye on the Sony S590 so I hope the creator of the BR standard should take care of its players? :roll:
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:27 am

Flying Fox wrote:All this pretty much re-affirms my plan to buy a standalone player to avoid all the hassles. Granted updating the player may still give me headaches but it seems to be less of a problem in general. And of course, I have my eye on the Sony S590 so I hope the creator of the BR standard should take care of its players? :roll:

I went with the Oppo BDP-93 and the support for firmware upgrades is amazing. Seems like every time I turn it on it's telling me there's an update, and they install quickly and seamlessly. The whole experience has made me a Oppo buyer for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:46 am

Well, they *need* to have good support for firmware updates. The content producers want them to update the firmware every time the DRM changes, in an attempt to stay one step ahead of the people who are cracking the DRM. So don't get the mistaken impression that they're doing this for *you*...
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:02 pm

PS3 firmware updates happen frequently enough that the Blu-Ray DRM stuff must just kind of wind up there without separate updates. i didn't realize that Blu-Ray DRM was an evolving process. O_o
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:11 pm

just brew it! wrote:Well, they *need* to have good support for firmware updates. The content producers want them to update the firmware every time the DRM changes, in an attempt to stay one step ahead of the people who are cracking the DRM. So don't get the mistaken impression that they're doing this for *you*...

Oh, I know, but it's nice that the player just does what it needs and doesn't get in the way. It's also a right champ at upscaling DVDs to 1080p.

I'll admit that I'm torn between the old PDP-8 geek and "information must be free" and the modern lazy parent "do I want to futz with this for 2 hours to watch a 90 minute movie" viewpoints. Modern lazy parent is pulling away on the backstretch and coming down the homestretch like a thunderous machine.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:14 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
just brew it! wrote:Well, they *need* to have good support for firmware updates. The content producers want them to update the firmware every time the DRM changes, in an attempt to stay one step ahead of the people who are cracking the DRM. So don't get the mistaken impression that they're doing this for *you*...

Oh, I know, but it's nice that the player just does what it needs and doesn't get in the way. It's also a right champ at upscaling DVDs to 1080p.

I'll admit that I'm torn between the old PDP-8 geek and "information must be free" and the modern lazy parent "do I want to futz with this for 2 hours to watch a 90 minute movie" viewpoints. Modern lazy parent is pulling away on the backstretch and coming down the homestretch like a thunderous machine.
Catch the quote.

I would have to say that staying ahead of DRM updates is one thing, but having the latest blockbuster Bluray not playing on the popular players is just not good business, especially for companies like Sony, which play on both the content and playback sides.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:17 pm

Flying Fox wrote:All this pretty much re-affirms my plan to buy a standalone player to avoid all the hassles. Granted updating the player may still give me headaches but it seems to be less of a problem in general.

I actually am trying to convince myself that I don't NEED a BD in my HTPC .. it would save me at least $120 by forgetting about it entirely. I already have a BD player in another room, but its hooked up to an older 32" SD plasma, wasting the true quality of the BD to begin with.

Any new BD player will come equipped with Cinavia built into it, which I would very much like to avoid .. it does nothing but cause compatibility headaches down the road for any future BD releases. No wonder the older BD players are being bought up at a fast pace.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:28 pm

Walkintarget wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:All this pretty much re-affirms my plan to buy a standalone player to avoid all the hassles. Granted updating the player may still give me headaches but it seems to be less of a problem in general.

I actually am trying to convince myself that I don't NEED a BD in my HTPC .. it would save me at least $120 by forgetting about it entirely. I already have a BD player in another room, but its hooked up to an older 32" SD plasma, wasting the true quality of the BD to begin with.

Any new BD player will come equipped with Cinavia built into it, which I would very much like to avoid .. it does nothing but cause compatibility headaches down the road for any future BD releases. No wonder the older BD players are being bought up at a fast pace.

Seems like the PS3 has this already, and it is quite an "old" player. It may be possible the older players can get an update some day that detects it. However, I haven't really seen pirated discs for sale, nor I have interest in copying the discs. So for the foreseeable future I should not be tripping on this DRM. The mid range players are now <$100 (for example the Sony S590 I am looking at is $99) so it is at/near impulse buy range already.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:16 pm

End of the day bluray play back on pc is a mess. It is literally easier to legally rip a bluray and view it that way than to straight up play one. Just saying that what they are attempting with the technology is sorta self defeating. It's like they want me to rip each and every rental. I would rather not do that but who am I to argue with the law....
Last edited by kamikaziechameleon on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:25 pm

kamikaziechameleon wrote:End of the day bluray play back on pc is a mess. It is literally easier to legally rip a bluray and view it that way than to straight up play one. Just saying what they are attempting with the technology is sorta self defeating. It's like they want me to rip each and every rental. I would rather not do that but who am I to argue with the law....

Assuming you are in the US/EU, which law(s) says that you can "legally rip" a Bluray by circumventing its copy protection?
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:56 pm

EDIT BY MOD - Captain Ned - Sorry, but that piece of software clearly violates Rule #1 in that the free version decodes copyrighted BluRay discs. Without payment of the license fee, that's a clear Rule #1 problem.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:03 pm

*sigh* Just so I understand this going forward...a trial piece of software that later requires to be paid in order to decode a Blu-ray disc is off limits on TR?

Edit: I see that PowerDVD, which decodes Blu-rays, also offers a 30 day trial. So why can we keep mentioning PowerDVD (which I personally use)?
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:21 pm

Pagey wrote:*sigh* Just so I understand this going forward...a trial piece of software that later requires to be paid in order to decode a Blu-ray disc is off limits on TR?

The problem is that that piece of software is full-featured for 30 days. I don't know the exact license terms for BluRay, but it seems to me that the provider of this software has no intent on paying any license fees to the Blu Ray Disk Association, thus making the software illegitimate.

The problem is DMCA and the circumvention of encryption. Anything that can bypass the encryption (unless licensed by BRDA) is facially illegal for a US company to produce or sell, which is why the software you mentioned is sold out of Beijing.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:23 pm

Pagey wrote:*sigh* Just so I understand this going forward...a trial piece of software that later requires to be paid in order to decode a Blu-ray disc is off limits on TR?

Edit: I see that PowerDVD, which decodes Blu-rays, also offers a 30 day trial. So why can we keep mentioning PowerDVD (which I personally use)?

PowerDVD pays the license fee to BRDA and doesn't include (or heavily promote on its webpage) a ripping tool.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:24 pm

I see. I was not suggesting they use the DVD/Blu-ray ripping portion of the software, which clearly does violate the DMCA. It is/was my understanding that their media player is a stand-alone piece of software for playback ONLY. Perhaps it's not. Perhaps it is bundled with their ripping suite.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:29 pm

Pagey wrote:I see. I was not suggesting they use the DVD/Blu-ray ripping portion of the software, which clearly does violate the DMCA. It is/was my understanding that their media player is a stand-alone piece of software for playback ONLY. Perhaps it's not. Perhaps it is bundled with their ripping suite.

They do offer a stand-alone, but with the rest of the site being so focused on illicit ripping, linking to it isn't really a good idea.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:31 pm

Noted for future reference.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:48 pm

If I understand the app in question correctly, it also does not have the ability to play Blu-Ray discs which are encoded with the newer BD+ DRM unless you install illicitly obtained encryption keys. So even if the app itself is legal, any discussion of how to make it work with recent Blu Ray releases would likely be a Rule 1 violation regardless.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:52 pm

Again, noted for future reference. This will certainly be the last Blu-ray thread I personally participate in (other than to say "get a stand alone player"), as they seem to generate more controversy than a standard R&P thread.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:41 pm

The battle between strong DRM on the one hand, and "fair use" on the other, *is* at its core a political issue.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:02 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
kamikaziechameleon wrote:End of the day bluray play back on pc is a mess. It is literally easier to legally rip a bluray and view it that way than to straight up play one. Just saying what they are attempting with the technology is sorta self defeating. It's like they want me to rip each and every rental. I would rather not do that but who am I to argue with the law....

Assuming you are in the US/EU, which law(s) says that you can "legally rip" a Bluray by circumventing its copy protection?

Maybe that's his point: given that it's illegal to rip a BD, it's still easier to do so legally than to play it back through legit methods ... (meaning you can't do it either way, but at least you don't have to go to the effort of proving you can't in the first case...)

I cannot comment further without violating Rule 1; all I will say is that Google (and lots of hard disk space) is your friend.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:06 pm

sjl wrote:Maybe that's his point: given that it's illegal to rip a BD, it's still easier to do so legally than to play it back through legit methods ... (meaning you can't do it either way, but at least you don't have to go to the effort of proving you can't in the first case...)

I cannot comment further without violating Rule 1; all I will say is that Google (and lots of hard disk space) is your friend.

It's not that BD playback is impossible on the PC. It's more like legal BD playback on the PC requires software costing about the same as a standalone player. Something tells me that that's not a bug, it's a feature.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:38 pm

The OEM version of PowerDVD or "Blu-ray suite" is included with many drives.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:27 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:The OEM version of PowerDVD or "Blu-ray suite" is included with many drives.

From what I'm reading, those OEM versions (much like the versions of Nero I got with CD burners many moons ago that updated to a point and no farther) are crippled from obtaining the updates they need to recognize newly-issued BD keys, thus forcing a purchase of the full version to watch the latest movies.

I've got no issue with copyright holders enforcing compliance with their rights but the software houses seem to be ensuring that the only way to stay current with BD specs is to always update to the latest/greatest at no inconsiderable expense. Whether that's required by BRDA license terms or is a "happy accident" (cough-cough) I am not in a position to say. ISTM that updates could keep older software working with newer discs.
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Re: Blu Ray Playback

Postposted on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:41 pm

The only problem I've had with the OEM versions of PowerDVD and Blu-ray Suite is that they don't support DTS -- you're stuck with crystal-clear stereo sound until you upgrade.
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