PC Becoming Slow

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PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:01 am

Hi Gerbils. There's something fishy going on with my PC lately. You see, I don't really play new games a lot and instead just play some old favorites such as Oblivion, Unreal Tournament 2004, Thief Deadly Shadows, etc. Problem is, lately I've noticed that UT2004 is lagging a bit. It's been smooth before but lately I'm noticing that it's becoming choppy. Same is true with games like Thief Deadly Shadows. Here are my specs:

Hardware :
AMD Phenom II X3 720 (unlocked 4th core)
MSI 785GM-E65 (AMD 785G)
Apacer 4GB DDR3-1333 (2 x 2GB)
Sapphire AMD HD5670 1GB
TP-Link TL-WN723N
Hitachi 1TB HDD (HDS721010CLA332)
2 x LG ODDs
ACBel 600+W PSU
LG W2252TQ LCD

OS/Drivers :
Windows 7 x64 Ultimate
AMD Chipset Drivers 12.3
AMD Graphics Drivers (no CCC) ver. 11.12
Realtek HD Audio Driver 2.70

I've tried reformatting my PC and using older chipset and graphics drivers (the original ones I was using when I bought the hardware), and running the games before installing other things such as Avast! Antivirus, my office suite or other extras such as Flash player. Still the same problem. I also ran Passmark's BurnInTest to test CPU, GPU, GPU VRAM, but found nothing. I used Memtest86 to test my RAM too.

I also tried reloading default BIOS settings (the ones I've been using ever since). My hard disk can't be the culprit either because the choppiness happens in-game, but I also tested it anyway with the manufacturer's testing tool. Nothing came up. And yeah, I'm using the "Balanced" power profile, which I've always been using ever since upgrading to Win7. All fans running fine. I also tried installing more memory, in this case, up from 4GB to 8GB.

Any thoughts? I can't think of anything else.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:10 am

Have you tried setting your CPU back to be tri-core?
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:55 am

I.S.T. wrote:Have you tried setting your CPU back to be tri-core?


A good starting point. Check your cool & quiet drivers are installed and updated too.

You've done stress-tests and stability tests, as well as confirmed that fans are running well, but have you checked temperatures, or that the heatsinks aren't clogged with dust? (sorry if that sounds patronising, but I've seen it before....)

Other than that, can you give me more info on the "choppy/laggy": Are you talking about consistently low framerates, like 20fps when you're expecting 50+ or is uneven framerates - like smooth gameplay interspersed with hiccups and hitches?
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:02 am

I.S.T. wrote:Have you tried setting your CPU back to be tri-core?


Thirded !! Start there.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:26 am

Your hard drive is defragmented?
We all know how heavily fragmented the hard drive is, even after a fresh install.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:25 am

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon to set the CPU back to stock. I also wouldn't rule out the hard drive; they can test okay when performance is degraded and/or they haven't quite failed yet. I'm not exactly sure what kind of performance you should be expecting from it, but I'm sure some others here would have a good idea and feedback if you were to post some numbers from a tool like HD Tune.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:34 am

Thanks for the replies, folks. As per your suggestions, I set it back to 3-core mode but the choppiness persisted. The choppiness in question happens in some areas of the map in UT2004, and also generally while playing Thief Deadly Shadows, but it's so common, I don't remember it being THAT common before. Temperatures seem to be ok, around 41C at load. I've played TDS so many times I know it like the back of my hand, and it's not like this before.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:00 am

UPDATE : I thought about checking a couple of some benchmark scores I took and saved in .JPG format from Passmark. The older one was taken last May 2012, and the newer one was taken last November. I've noticed this sluggishness for about a month or two now but didn't really think much of it. Anyway, I noticed that the Memory Mark score went down from 1,240 to 790. Memtest86 didn't find any problems with my RAM, but this PC used to have 8GB of DDR3-1333 (4 x 2GB), and I gave my cousin 2 sticks last June or thereabouts. Back when there was 8GB installed, all slots (4 of them) were filled. Now only DIMM slots 1 and 2 are filled. It says in the manual that I should populate DIMM 1 and 2 first, which is how it is. I used CPU-Z to check the RAM and it says it's still running in Dual Channel mode. Anyone here experienced RAM throughput going down when only 2 of the 4 slots are filled on an AMD Phenom II-based motherboard?
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:07 am

Ok, I tried putting back the two sticks I gave my cousin, so now all slots are filled. Problem is, the PC won't POST when slots 3 and 4 are filled. I've tried re-inserting the DIMMs many times but it just won't boot. Removing DIMMs 3 and 4 would instantly make the PC boot again. I don't know if this is a memory controller problem or the board is bust. Unfortunately I don't have a spare AM3 board around here. And yes, I've already tried interchanging all the DIMMs just in case the two DIMMs on slots 3 and 4 happen to be defective. The slots themselves aren't dirty and visual inspection reveals no such things as bent contacts or anything like that.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:12 am

Urgh, that sounds messy - and no, sudden bandwidth loss whilst running in dual-channel mode is not something I've come across, either on Intel or AMD platforms.

Do you have any spare/different RAM you can test with this board, and if not - use something like CPU-Z to read exactly what timings your RAM is running at, then compare to what the SPD or rated timings are. It could be a timing issue, reverting to safe, lowest-common-denominator timings.

But honestly, I'm not sure at this point; I'd be swapping out hardware to test at this juncture.

Oh, and you've just replied. Do you know anyone with a compatible CPU you can borrow/test with?
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:29 am

@Chrispy_

I'm inclined to think there's nothing wrong with the 4 DIMMs. I've been using two of them and my cousin has been using the other two with no issues. Unfortunately I'm the only guy here using AMD (!). I'd love to be able to test my CPU on another AM3 board with these DIMMs to see if it's the memory controller that's causing problems or if it's the board. I may have to start looking around at friends' setups..
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:31 am

Ronch, I had a similar problem with a Phenom II X4 965 system with an AMD 6850 video card. It would seem to run just fine when doing office-type stuff, but when I popped into a game like Borderlands 1 (not a system resource hog) it would run fine at 60fps, then drop to 10fps, then jump back up, then lag back out.

I too started looking at hardware but that ended up not being the issue.

The issue was the power settings in Windows 7. They had been changed from performance to power saving mode. With the full set of AMD drivers installed, video card and motherboard, and with the default setting for AMD Overdrive being enabled, this allowed the cpu and memory to be down clocked.

The end result was my memory and CPU was running at only a few hundred megahertz, which was more than enough for web browsing, but in a video game, I would get periods of lag here and there as I turned the character around, the system had to render new stuff, didn't have the power, would lag, the clock speeds would crank back up, the lag would go away, then the clock speeds would settle back down, and the lag would return again as I ran around the corner.

So take a quick second and check your power settings. Make sure they are set to performance, and make sure the slider bars in AMD Overdrive get grayed out or disabled.

How did I discover this? I fired up CPU-Z and saw that my CPU was running something like 800MHz.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:46 am

@Someuid - Hey man, thanks for the suggestion, but I already did that. I'm normally using "Balanced" in my power profile, but even in "High Performance" mode the games are noticeably/significantly less smooth. I ran the memory benchmarks in Passmark again using High Performance and the results are practically the same. They were at 1,240 points before.. not it's just around 790 - 803. I shudder to think what "Power Saver" will cause my games.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:51 am

Strange; two separate but RAM-related issues: lower memory score and trouble running 4 sticks of RAM. I'm thinking that your thought that there's a problem with the CPU's memory controller is sounding pretty valid. It would be interesting to see if swapping in another CPU fixed the issues with the lower memory score and also with being able to run 4 DIMMS.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:15 am

@Flip-mode : Yeah. It's either I test my CPU and DIMMs on someone else's board or I borrow an AM3 CPU and see how it works out with my board and DIMMs. It's not gonna be easy though. It's not like I have many friends who use AMD (that I'm aware of), and those who are using AMD probably aren't close enough (in terms of friendship) to allow me to tinker with their PC. I'd hate to pay a PC repair shop just so I could test my parts on their setups... unless if I ask this as a favor from them to help me decide which parts to buy from them..

But even if I was able to do the above, I'd probably have to replace either the CPU or the mobo. Replacing the CPU is not very compelling because I'm not inclined to buy another AM3 CPU even if it's cheap (however, my CPU is technically still under the 3-year warranty.. bought it Dec. 28, 2009.. close call!). The board on the other hand, is a bit more compelling because I can grab an AM3+ board now, which will also prepare me for an FX upgrade in the future. But the problem with that is that the FX isn't exactly very compelling either.

Best bet would be to pay a repair shop to test my hardware. I'm in luck if it's the CPU that's broken. I could just RMA it and pay for shipping.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:09 am

not to thread hijack, but where does one find the cool n quiet drivers? i looked on amd's site, and i can't find it....only thing i can find for processors is a hyper-v checker..thanks and sorry for asking this in ur thread....
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:16 am

ronch, you might find someone here on the forums that would let you borrow a CPU if you pay the shipping. I'd let you borrow one if I had one to spare. I'm betting someone here may have one to spare. You could PM just-brew-it. Worst that could happen is that he says no and then you get your drunk on to cope with the rejection :lol:
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:27 am

Hmmm.

I always run my desktop in high performance mode.

Is the BIOS up to date or any options in there that could affect performance like that? I have C1E disabled in mine.

How are the temps on the vid card? Is a loose cooler a possibility?

Ram is dirt cheap now, if you wanted to buy a 2x4GB kit, ddr3 should be around for awhile yet. I have also seen the 955 BE going for 80 bucks at a few places, replacing a cpu would be last option though.

Did you try a new graphics card driver?

AMD chipset drivers apparently were revised for improvements in 12.10, read the paragraph under HD TUNE
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Giga ... P4/11.html

good luck
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:48 am

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies!

@XorCist: I'm using Win7. I believe this OS doesn't require CnQ drivers from AMD as it already has its own drivers for AMD's K10 range...

@Flip-mode: Hmm.. I'm guessing I'm a little far from you guys. Shipping would cost a small fortune. Hiring a shop to test things will probably be cheaper... But I really appreciate your kind gesture, dude. :D Many thanks!

@AnotherEngineer: Well, the cooler seems to run fine and is securely mounted. The BIOS is not the latest but it's what I've been using for the longest time playing these old games. Also, I've always used the same BIOS settings. I reloaded the defaults to see if there's anything amiss but everything in the BIOS seems just the way I've always set them. As for buying RAM, hmmm... not sure it's the RAM that's the problem, since all the sticks work well enough on other systems and this one. The graphics driver is not the latest but I've been using it for a while now (AMD GPU driver ver. 11.12... no CCC bloatware as always). Thanks, man. :D

Oh, and one crazy thing... I tried poking around AMD's RMA page and it seems to be going nuts. I'm quite inclined to think this is either a mobo or CPU problem, but I'm hoping it's a CPU problem because I can have it replaced for a minimal fee (shipping), assuming I can get the RMA processed.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:15 pm

ronch wrote:@Chrispy_

I'm inclined to think there's nothing wrong with the 4 DIMMs. I've been using two of them and my cousin has been using the other two with no issues.


Given that the DIMMs have been sent off to another PC, worked well and then come back is probably good enough reason to look elsewhere for the fault. The fact that you've tried these DIMMS [img]instead[/img] of your old DIMMS means that the problem is very unlikely to be any of the RAM.

The 3rd & 4th dead slots could be the motherboard, but I certainly noticed a drop in 'faulty boards' when AMD (and eventually Intel) moved their memory controller on-die, so I'm inclined to leave that line of thinking until all other options have been exhausted. If it is a faulty or failing memory controller, you could try the lowest possible FSB speed and relax the RAM timings if your board allows you to. On the assumption the DIMMs are good, taking some of the strain off the memory controller (which is looking like the prime suspect) might be the next best thing to trying another CPU in your board.

Oh, and based on your reply to flip-mode, I'm guessing you're not in the US?
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:12 pm

@Chrispy_: Nope, I never touch RAM timings. Never did it even with my older setups. I opt for stability rather than a few more clocks worth of performance.

And yeah, I'm not in the U.S. :)

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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:23 am

UPDATE: Ok, for some reason I'm now using 8GB. After many tries, DIMM slots 3 and 4 are now ok and all slots are filled for a total of 8GB just ike the old days. I ran Passmark again and the Memory Mark score has gone up from around 800 to 1,200. It was 1,240 before but I'll chalk that up to margin of error or some other software factor. The thing is, UT2004 is STILL running sluggishly at times. It has lessened a bit but it's still there.

Another funny thing is how the Memory Mark score suffers when only DIMM slots 1 and 2 are filled.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:35 am

ronch wrote:UPDATE: Ok, for some reason I'm now using 8GB. After many tries, DIMM slots 3 and 4 are now ok and all slots are filled for a total of 8GB just ike the old days. I ran Passmark again and the Memory Mark score has gone up from around 800 to 1,200. It was 1,240 before but I'll chalk that up to margin of error or some other software factor. The thing is, UT2004 is STILL running sluggishly at times. It has lessened a bit but it's still there.

Another funny thing is how the Memory Mark score suffers when only DIMM slots 1 and 2 are filled.

Almost sounds like the memory slot contacts in 3 & 4 had become corroded or dirty during the time they were unpopulated. Do you live in a humid climate, or have smokers in the house? Both of those possibilities could foul up the memory slots, they may have just needed some cleaning in order to work properly.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:23 am

@ludi: Well, there's the airconditioning, but I don't know if it's really cold enough to cause moisture and corrode the contacts on the memory slots. Also, no smokers and the inside of the case is not that dirty, although I vaguely remember cleaning the interior a few months back.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:00 pm

Air conditioning dries out the incoming air stream, so that's not too likely to be a problem.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:45 pm

Try disabling Cool-n-Quiet in the BIOS.

Have you looked at your GPU temps?

Unless Memory Mark factors memory size into the score, something strange is definitely going on with your RAM. What happens if you put DIMMs in just slots 1 and 3 (or 2 and 4)?
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:10 pm

My suggestion to loosen the memory timings wasn't on the assumption you'd overclocked and tweaked them, It's more that I've seen (only once, admittedly) an AMD chip deteriorate in such a way that it is still fully functional if underclocked, but no longer runs at stock speeds.

If this issue is by chance related - in other words, if your CPU's memory controller is failing - you may be able to restore its functionality by slowing everything down. Obviously you'll get a drop in performance associated with this, but overall the performance should increase because you're not suffering from this weird bandwidth issue that your previous/current benchmarks and gaming are indicative of.

Motherboard: Could be faulty, especially since two of the RAM slots are intermittent, but hard to prove because the blame could also be the memory controller in the CPU
PSU: Never underestimate the weirdness caused by a failing PSU, however - if all the voltages check out in a hardware monitor, it's less likely to be this.
CPU: CPU's are either 100% working, or 100% broken, in my experience

The only case I've ever seen of a "faulty but working" processor was an early Sempron64 that I bought curious to see if it lived up to the Celeron 300A I had. Anyway, after prolonged time with a 1GHz overclock, huge voltages and 90 degree temperatures at the limit of my cooler, the thing started losing stability. I though that once you pushed a CPU too far the 'magic smoke' just escaped and that was that, but apparently not; The thing was only stable at stock speeds from that point onwards, but it wouldn't even POST without extra voltage anymore. I remember reading about it and deciding that accelerated electromigration had worn away gates to the point that they were leaking badly, but I'd caught it early enough to actually kill the chip completely.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:44 pm

Try swapping out your power supply. It's not very much, but putting in the extra sticks of memory could push it over the edge. If it's not supplying enough, or supplying dirty electricity it could also account for the inconsistent performance.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:45 am

I monitored the GPU temps and operating clocks (GPU and VRAM) with GPU-Z and temps appear to be around 48C while gaming, while the GPU and VRAM seem to be running at their specified clocks during load (775MHz and 1GHz, respectively). Both also scale down at 157MHz and 300MHz at idle. I also tried disabling CnQ in the BIOS.

I'm a little curious to know whether my CPU is starting to get cranky. I ran Passmark again with 4 DIMMs installed and the results are pretty much in line with the results back in May (sorry, it was May 2011, not 2012), so it kinda makes me think the hardware is still running as fast as it should be.

I somewhat noticed that Thief Deadly Shadows is running smoother with 4 DIMMS, as does Doom 3. UT2004 also improved but there are parts of the map where it stutters. Perhaps it's a driver issue... I'm not sure. Will continue testing.

As for the PSU, I remember the LED in it flickering when I opened the case up. Not sure if it's just a loose connection but seeing as the stutters only happen in-game and in only specific areas of the level maps and that there are no stability issues at all, I'm not too quick to point the finger at the PSU. Still, it's been around since Feb. 2008 so it could be starting to fizz out.
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Re: PC Becoming Slow

Postposted on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:13 pm

I'd try borrowing or buying (and putting toward next system) a faster video card. If you're interested in my HD 5870, pm me. :D
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