Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

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Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:13 am

Hi all,

I am trying to figure out the specs of my new system. Most things are covered, but I have some questions.
Your advise/expertise is needed.

This is what I have now
Intel E8500 (core2 duo, 3.1 GHz)
Arctic Freezer 7 Pro
Gigabyte EP45-UD3 P45
2×4 GB 1066, GeIL black dragon
XFX GTS250 512 MB
Some SATA HDDs
Creative X-Fi Titanium
2× Dell 2209WA


This is what I do with my computer
Beside the usual browsing, MS office and watching videos, I am a heavy user of Adobe CS6 (Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign), Lightroom 4, Autopano Pro and PTGui. I also use Oracle VirtualBox for testing and as a webserver (mostly one, sometimes more VMs simultaniously). I do NOT play games :-)

Until now, with my 8 MP RAW files from my old EOS 30D and the panoramic photos it produces, my system worked quite well. It is not a speed monster, but for me time is not (that much) money. But with the switch to 18 MP RAW files from my Canon EOS 7D and 2.5 gigapixels (18 GB PSB file) panos, things are getting pretty anoying. Opening this 18 GB file took several minutes, but saving it ... well I aborted it after about 30 minutes and just 1% of saving. (I did not dare to do PS work on it.)
So it is time for a (serious) upgrade.


This is what I came up with
Intel i5-3570k or i7-3770(k)
(Cooler? Advice needed)
Gigabyte GA Z77MX-D3H
Corsair 32 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit (CMX32GX3M4A1333C9, XMS)
Seagate ST3000DM001, 3 TB SATA
Samsung MZ-7PC256B/WW

I will use the case, the power supply, DVD drive and monitors from my current system. Because of the 16+ GB, I go from W7 HP to Pro.

The choice for this motherboard is mainly because of the low power consumption.
The choice for this SSD is based on speed, capacity and price.


My questions to you are:

1. What is the best CPU compared to the performance? Most PS/LR tests I read have a outcome that is more or less the same. I can go for the 3570k and overclock (and save 70 EUR compared to the 3770), but how stable is it (can it be) for day to day use? I have never overclocked. I can try, follow (Youtube) tutorials. Can I overclock the system and rely on it for the next four, five years? (Or do I have to guard and change things regularly?) And can an overclocked 3570k outperform the 3770 non-k? Or I can spend 35 EUR and go for the 3770k (and overclock this)?

2. What is the best (and most quiet) cooler around? I am happy with the Arctic Freezer, but does this do the job for the i5/i7. And how about when I overclock?

3. I want to use one SSD for the OS and applications and one for the temporary files, like the Lightroom catalog, the panorama files to work on. My OS and applications are about 80 GB now, my LR catalog and previews are now around 9 GB. To stay below the 200 EUR, what is the most ideal combi of SSDs?



Thanks in advance.


PS. I live in Holland and my supplier is Alternate (http://www.alternate.nl)
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:32 am

Any one of those CPUs is going to work well for you. All three of them will be plenty fast for what you want to do. I'll suggest the 3770 NON K version. Since you're doing some virtualization this is the best choice for you because it is the only of the bunch that has hardware virtualization support. You don't and won't need to overclock a CPU of this class. It'll be miles ahead of what you have now.


Get this cooler: http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Co ... =7&lk=1693

I will suggest a different motherboard. Power consumption of the motherboard shouldn't really be something that goes into consideration in my opinion.

Here you go: http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/AS ... =7&lk=4133

It appears your etailer of choice doesn't have the 256GB version of the Samsung 830. I have the 128GB drive as my main drive and it's awesome. I know a lot of other people here have that one as well and can vouch for it. You could just one of those, if it's under 200 euros, for all your needs.

edit: I just now saw that you chose a DDR3-1333 memory kit. The default memory speed for Ivy Bridge processors is 1600. Here you go: http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/Co ... =7&lk=3327 Grab two of those and you'll be good. Only reason I chose that "vengeance" stuff is because the regular Corsair DDR3 1600 was out of stock for the time being. I'd still stick to corsair for RAM even if you don't get this particular set.

edit2: Have you thought about a GPU? I don't know much about GPU acceleration with image processing (perf vs quality) and honestly a 3770 should be plenty anyway, but you might look into it.
Last edited by DancinJack on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:38 am

The overclocking ability of the 3570k isn't that great, despite being unlocked. Go for the 3770.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:44 am

If you wish to buy a 256GB SSD, pick up this one.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:48 am

riviera74 wrote:If you wish to buy a 256GB SSD, pick up this one.


He said it needs to stay under 200 euros. You're not wrong though. It's a good drive.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:12 pm

If you don't feel up to overclocking, don't. It can become a mess over time, has the opportunity to reduce reliability, and usually doesn't keep your warranty. Although it's always cool to save some money and get more than what you pay for, you usually end up paying for it in time. Another vote for the 3770.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:22 pm

If I read your list correctly you only have ONE hard drive to read and write to for your work.
I only edit videos but have found that using just one drive kills the speed. (trying to read AND write to one drive)

Best for me is source files on one drive (reading) and then writing your work to a separate physical drive.
So one physical drive is just reading and the other is just writing for max speed when processing files.

I love my 24Gig ram drive to work from and save work to a physical drive.
At least using VideoReDo software it is a HUGE speed boost.

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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:43 pm

Thanks for the quick replies. You rock.
One thing is clear now: I will go for the 3770 non-k and leave overclicking for the, euh, fanatics(?) ... :D .

DancinJack wrote:I will suggest a different motherboard. Power consumption of the motherboard shouldn't really be something that goes into consideration in my opinion. Here you go: http://www.alternate.nl/html/product/AS ... =7&lk=4133


Well DancinJack, I am Dutch, so saving money... (we invented the copper wire).
And when I do not save money with a lower power consumption, what is the best and cheapest motherboard? Like the ASUS P8Z77-M?


DancinJack wrote:edit2: Have you thought about a GPU? I don't know much about GPU acceleration with image processing (perf vs quality) and honestly a 3770 should be plenty anyway, but you might look into it.


I am going to use my GTS250 card in this new system.


I was not very clear about my SSD question. Sorry for that.
A rephrase: If I want to spend 200 EUR max on two SSD disks (one OS, other LR library, temp files) (all my data is on the SATA Seagate 3TB), what is the best choice?
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:48 pm

jmc2 wrote:I love my 24Gig ram drive to work from and save work to a physical drive.


If I may ask, what software do you use for the ram drive?
I flirted with the idea to convert part of the 32 GB into a ram drive.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:51 pm

If you aren't overclocking, don't waste money on aftermarket coolers. Absolutely no reason to do it.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:59 pm

professor-d wrote:Well DancinJack, I am Dutch, so saving money... (we invented the copper wire).
And when I do not save money with a lower power consumption, what is the best and cheapest motherboard? Like the ASUS P8Z77-M?


That'd work great.


professor-d wrote:I was not very clear about my SSD question. Sorry for that.
A rephrase: If I want to spend 200 EUR max on two SSD disks (one OS, other LR library, temp files) (all my data is on the SATA Seagate 3TB), what is the best choice?


Get a 128GB Samsung 830 or 840 Pro as your main drive. You could do something like this for your LR stuff. You can probably find something smaller, but that's a good one I found on the site you buy from.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:30 pm

lilbuddhaman wrote:The overclocking ability of the 3570k isn't that great, despite being unlocked. Go for the 3770.


Huh? Mine runs 4.4 (1 GHz OC) at stock voltage. I haven't tried to go higher.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:45 pm

3770 non-K, use the stock cooler as others have suggested; I've been slapping a dozen of them them in our renderfarm with 16GB of RAM each and they run fast/cool/reliably even when stacked up high in 2u rack cases with tiny 200W power supplies.

If you can afford it, get a new GCN-based Radeon; they really do make much better productivity cards than the old Geforces - Notably in Photoshop and Autopano Pro. I would suggest a 2GB 7850 (for the extra RAM) if you can afford it, but at the same time I've seen decent results from a lowly 7750 with 1GB.

If you are working on 18GB files, then you're really going to appreciate an SSD for your swapfile (and use it as a scratch disk too) but you'll notice the biggest benefit from having at least twice as much RAM as the filesize you're working on (since operations usually require more than double the RAM of the file you have loaded).

Unfortunately getting 64GB of RAM is going to cost around triple what 32GB of RAM will cost you, and perhaps in this case a fast SSD will be a better return on your investment - provided you underprovision it to maintain high IOPS. If you haven't already, the Anantech article on underprovisioning is a bit of an eye-opener, and perfect as a RAM alternative for work on large files.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:07 pm

DancinJack wrote:Any one of those CPUs is going to work well for you. All three of them will be plenty fast for what you want to do. I'll suggest the 3770 NON K version. Since you're doing some virtualization this is the best choice for you because it is the only of the bunch that has hardware virtualization support.


This needs some clarification: all of those CPUs have what you meant by "hardware virtualization support," which is VT-x with Extended Page Tables (EPT) support. On the other hand, what they lack is VT-d, which should be used only in paravirtualization scenarios that involve a bare metal hypervisor, and it is not taken advantage of by client virtualization software (VirtualBox, VMWare Player, etc.).
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:18 pm

dattimr wrote:This needs some clarification: all of those CPUs have what you meant by "hardware virtualization support," which is VT-x with Extended Page Tables (EPT) support. On the other hand, what they lack is VT-d, which should be used only in paravirtualization scenarios that involve a bare metal hypervisor, and it is not taken advantage of by client virtualization software (VirtualBox, VMWare Player, etc.).



I have read VirtualBox has plans to implement VT-d though. Near native, depending on implementation, performance of hardware in a VM (even if it's still in development) would be awesome. Other than that though, he doesn't need to overclock. Having VT-d support and no unlocked multiplier make sense here.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:36 pm

dattimr wrote:This needs some clarification: all of those CPUs have what you meant by "hardware virtualization support," which is VT-x with Extended Page Tables (EPT) support. On the other hand, what they lack is VT-d, which should be used only in paravirtualization scenarios that involve a bare metal hypervisor, and it is not taken advantage of by client virtualization software (VirtualBox, VMWare Player, etc.).


I understand "This needs some clarification", "On the other hand" and "which should be used only in", but for the other words... :cry: :lol:
Anyway, it is not that I use VM heavily, I only run one or two in the background to test websites I design.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:51 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:If you can afford it, get a new GCN-based Radeon; they really do make much better productivity cards than the old Geforces - Notably in Photoshop and Autopano Pro. I would suggest a 2GB 7850 (for the extra RAM) if you can afford it, but at the same time I've seen decent results from a lowly 7750 with 1GB.


The 7850 is slightly above budget, so I am tending towards the 7750. But which?
MSI has one with 2 GB, the MSI R7750-PMD2GD3 for just under 90 EUR, Club3D has one with 4 GB, the Club 3D Radeon HD 7750 for just over 100 EUR. The others are all with 1 GB. What is the difference? Quality?
Is Club3D a good brand? (I have had a lowcost Club3D card a few years ago but that crashed.)
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:17 pm

professor-d wrote:
jmc2 wrote:I love my 24Gig ram drive to work from and save work to a physical drive.


If I may ask, what software do you use for the ram drive?
I flirted with the idea to convert part of the 32 GB into a ram drive.


I bought Dataram. About $20 USD, 32Gig limit size.
EDIT... I think the limit maybe 64Gig.I only have 32Gig installed... END EDIT
http://www.dataram.com/

Now I read a review of an AMD version of "dataram" software just released that does a 64Gig disk
and (maybe?) mulitible ram drives for a couple dollars less. The free version of "AMD" does a 4Gig
disk and if you have AMD branded ram it will do a free 6Gig disk.

I looked up other ramdrive software that would do more but they are $50-$80.

jmc2
Last edited by jmc2 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:38 pm

DancinJack wrote:I have read VirtualBox has plans to implement VT-d though. Near native, depending on implementation, performance of hardware in a VM (even if it's still in development) would be awesome. Other than that though, he doesn't need to overclock. Having VT-d support and no unlocked multiplier make sense here.


It should be very nice, indeed; it's just that if your former choice of words is used, some readers might think that in practice the mere absence of VT-d means that the likes of VirtualBox and VMWare Player will either run slower or won't run at all. I pretty much agree to choosing the 3770 over the other models, though.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:39 pm

professor-d wrote:I understand "This needs some clarification", "On the other hand" and "which should be used only in", but for the other words... :cry: :lol:
Anyway, it is not that I use VM heavily, I only run one or two in the background to test websites I design.


Ha, sorry! It seems as though I clarified something by obscuring something else. :-)

So, as of today, if your intended use for virtualization technology is to run a virtual machine from within Windows or a standard Linux distro -- by means of VirtualBox or VMware Player --, you cannot take advantage of VT-d at all.

When you use VirtualBox, for instance, there is an abstraction layer between the virtual machine and your hardware; to the virtual machine, it seems like it's accessing "real" hardware, but VirtualBox is in fact emulating several computer devices (such as graphics cards, chipsets, sound controllers, etc.).

In case it had support for VT-d, VirtualBox would allow your virtual machines to have direct access to the hardware. This would be obvious to you in that your real graphics card, chipset, and so on would appear to the VM and be listed under its OS configuration.

However, as it stands today, neither VirtualBox nor VMWare Player can use VT-d. Instead, only some specific type of hypervisors (virtualization enabling software) that runs without the need for Windows or a standard Linux distro would be able to make use of VT-d. VMWare ESX would be such an hypervisor, but you certainly don’t need and therefore shouldn’t mind the absence of VT-d in a CPU.
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Re: Please help me choose: 3570k, 3770 or 3770k

Postposted on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:49 pm

This is a clear description (on my level of knowledge).
Thanks.

Perhaps VirtualBox supports VT-d before I need a successor for this new machine :o
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