Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

What you see is what you get, including photography, displays, and video equipment.

Moderators: Dposcorp, SpotTheCat

Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:27 pm

I don't know if this is the right category/forum to post this, but here you go:

I have a Samsung T27A750 27 inch Full HD TV which is also my PC monitor.

Now I have a question, and I'm noticing this everywhere, tried several computers and several screens:

When I watch HD TV on my screen it goes very fluently/smooth, a very great depth of field etc. Also when I use Smart TV and use the YouTube App, a full HD YouTube video plays great, nice colors, awesome depth of field etc etc.

Also when I plug in an external HDD to the screen directly, play a full HD movie; nice colors, great depth of field, smooth.

But now my question:
When I play a (full) HD movie via my computer (on this same screen), it doesn't look so 'lifely' anymore. Framerate seems to have dropped (it doesn't go as fluent anymore), and there's not much depth of field. The difference between TV and PC is HUGE.
The difference between playing a same (YouTube) Video/Movie directly via the PC or via the smart TV YouTube App is a HUGE difference. When I play it via the PC it looks aweful, not very smooth, no depth of field.

Screen is hooked up with hdmi to PC. PC is good enough, i5 processor, GTX560 graphic card etc. Should definitely be enough to watch a full HD movie or Youtube video right?

I've tried this with multiple Samsung TV's we have in the house and also with some other computers -> all same result.

What I want?
I want to get the same nice quality, smoothness and depth of field that I get when hooking up a HD directly to the screen (or using smart TV youtube app) when I play something via my PC. How's this possible?

Any explanations are appreciated.
zedaxy
Gerbil In Training
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:35 pm

What are you using to play the video?

There are some subtle differences in colour and brightness outputted by a TV and most PC applications and your video player might not account for that.

For smoothness, the player might be using an inefficient method to decode.

Also, if the colour appear less saturated you can turn on Digital Vibrance in your Nvidia control panel. A lot of TV media is a bit more saturated than they should but it looks better to most people.
ChronoReverse
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:41 pm

Also, what do you mean by "depth of field"?

The meaning I'm familiar with (regarding photography) cannot apply to the video image on a screen so I'm curious what that is referring to.
ChronoReverse
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:46 pm

zedaxy wrote: depth of field
Did you mean "Dynamic Range" as in the range of colors that it is producing? "Depth of field" refers to the area that is in focus in optics, particularly photography. Not picking on you, just want to make sure we're all on the same page.

zedaxy wrote:I want to get the same nice quality, smoothness and depth of field that I get when hooking up a HD directly to the screen (or using smart TV youtube app) when I play something via my PC. How's this possible?
Most TVs should have an image mode setting that adjusts properties like saturation, contrast, and sharpness with names like "PC", "Computer", "Game Mode" etc. You might want to try fiddling with those settings to see if it produces the image you're looking for. They're probably found under something like Settings->Image/Display/Video.
2600K @ 4.8GHz; XSPC Rasa/RX240/RX120 Phobya Xtreme 200; Asus P8Z68-V Pro; 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1333 C9; 2x7970 OC w/ Razor 7970; Force GT 120GB; 3x F3 1TB; Corsair HX750; X-Fi Titanium; Corsair Obsidian 650D; Dell 2408WFP Rev. A01; 2x Dell U2412m
mortifiedPenguin
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 812
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:46 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:15 pm

ChronoReverse wrote:What are you using to play the video?

There are some subtle differences in colour and brightness outputted by a TV and most PC applications and your video player might not account for that.

For smoothness, the player might be using an inefficient method to decode.

Also, if the colour appear less saturated you can turn on Digital Vibrance in your Nvidia control panel. A lot of TV media is a bit more saturated than they should but it looks better to most people.

Yea I noticed that too. For example, when I open a movie with VLC, the colors are very grayish. I mean, the blacks turn gray etc, it gets a grayish touch on it. It looks aweful.
But I mean - when I just play YouTube vai PC, it should work fine!? But there the colors are not as colorful as the TV function as well. Same goes for the smoothness and 'depth of field'.
The CPU is around 55% by the way when playing a full HD youtube video, so that shouldn't be the problem.




ChronoReverse wrote:Also, what do you mean by "depth of field"?

The meaning I'm familiar with (regarding photography) cannot apply to the video image on a screen so I'm curious what that is referring to.


With depth of field I mean here, that when you watch a full HD movie via TV on it, even when it's not 3D, you can still see the colors are fine and there's a little bit 3D. I mean - there's a nice depth of field; it seems like a person is for example really standing in front while there are trees in the background for example. The person then really stands out and is sharp etc. I'm missing that experience when I play a movie with my computer.



Also, when I use the TV function (or play via a HDD directly to the screen), it seems like the videos are much sharper. The edges of persons in the video are for example more detailed, like a 'sharpen' filter is applied. It looks so great. On the PC it looks more blurry.
zedaxy
Gerbil In Training
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:45 pm

Sounds to me like you need to change the levels output by the videocard. Look in the control panel for the display driver, and see if there is a 0-255 or 16-235 range setting you can apply! Play with it - hopefully that will fix your issue!

P.S. Please don't use the phrase depth of field - it's confusing! :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field
Rectal Prolapse
Gerbil
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:39 am

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:01 pm

mortifiedPenguin wrote:Most TVs should have an image mode setting that adjusts properties like saturation, contrast, and sharpness with names like "PC", "Computer", "Game Mode" etc. You might want to try fiddling with those settings to see if it produces the image you're looking for. They're probably found under something like Settings->Image/Display/Video.


Though I haven't used this model of HDTV/monitor, this sounds like it might be the biggest culprit as far as the lack of color/black levels. There is probably some over-saturated "dynamic" or some such mode that the TV is in by default (when in HDTV mode). When you switch to the PC input, it likely turns much/all of this processing off. While probably inaccurate, these "Dynamic" TV modes that turn up the contrast/backlight and who knows what else (ie, cinemotion engine) really make the colors pop and can make them appear a bit more 3D (some refer to this as a "soap opera effect" on LCD TVs). Though it grabs your attention at first, many find such settings headache inducing after a while.

As far as not getting smooth motion video playback, it's hard to say. Your computer should be fast enough, but there are a number of things that can cause problems. When using VLC, is DXVA (directX accelerated video) enabled? This should reduce CPU usage considerably (and I would think well below 55%). I would start by getting your properly-encoded HD video files to play properly in something like VLC or Media Player Classic HC before I started worrying about something like Youtube (where there are too many variables).
cynan
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:30 pm

VLC is especially bad in how the outputs could be misconfigured (and I have trouble getting it just right sometimes).

I'd consider using a different program like MPC-HC + madVR + LAV (here's one guide, if a little complicated: http://www.bishoujoproject.com/mpc-hc-playback-guide/)


Also, you should look for the settings on your TV to see if there's any filters being applied. There's often a "PC mode" for instance. You'll also want to adjust the sharpening filters if any.
ChronoReverse
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:58 pm

zedaxy wrote:With depth of field I mean here, that when you watch a full HD movie via TV on it, even when it's not 3D, you can still see the colors are fine and there's a little bit 3D. I mean - there's a nice depth of field; it seems like a person is for example really standing in front while there are trees in the background for example. The person then really stands out and is sharp etc. I'm missing that experience when I play a movie with my computer.
Oh, you're referring to the "3d effect". Still not quite "depth of field" but I can see why you'd say that. I know it sounds a bit... basic, but are you sure that 3d is turned on when playing back via your PC? Pretty sure that would make things on screen stop separating themselves from their backgrounds. :wink:
2600K @ 4.8GHz; XSPC Rasa/RX240/RX120 Phobya Xtreme 200; Asus P8Z68-V Pro; 16GB Corsair Vengeance 1333 C9; 2x7970 OC w/ Razor 7970; Force GT 120GB; 3x F3 1TB; Corsair HX750; X-Fi Titanium; Corsair Obsidian 650D; Dell 2408WFP Rev. A01; 2x Dell U2412m
mortifiedPenguin
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 812
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:46 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:10 pm

The PC input probably doesn't have motion smoothing turned on by default. Because this is 120hz TV its probably enabled by default for the other inputs you're using. This is why the PC frame rate seems lower.
Last edited by kumori on Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
kumori
Gerbil Team Leader
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:11 am

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:25 pm

I think I know what you mean by Depth of Field.
Is it actually frame interpolation?
Samsung calls it Auto Motion. It plays around with 120Hz stuff. You can find it in the Menu.
Personally I disabled it with the "game mode"; it made me almost queasy to watch.
That, and Dynamic mode made my eyes very sore.

Like eveyone else has said though, poke around with the tv colour menu, the nvidia control panel, and you'll probably
maltonfolk
Gerbil In Training
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:30 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:33 am

Okay i managed to get the 'nice video quality' via my PC as well. Here's what I did:

In the source settings of the screen (Samsung), I went to tools. My computer was now set as DVI-PC in the settings of the monitor. I changed it to PC and it stayed the same. Then I changed it to DVD (or TV) and it changed. Now when I play a movie via the PC it shows the nice video quality/colors etc of how it shows it when playing directly from a harddisk; perfect. I have dual monitor setup (2x same monitor). Here's a preview of what it looks like now.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14333146/screen/IMG_1433.JPG

Close-up left screen (TV function): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14333146/screen/IMG_1434.JPG
Close-up right screen (PC function): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/14333146/screen/IMG_1435.JPG
The left screen has the TV function enabled, the right one has the PC function enabled. As you can see, the colors on the right screen are very dull, no sharpened/obvious edges on the grass and check how nice the grass looks like on the left screen compared to the right screen. On the left screen (tv function) it has more depth, you can like individually separate the blades of grass; they have more 'depth'. That's what I mean with my interpretation of 'depth of field'.

However, there's a problem.
When I put the monitor on the TV setting, movies look fine, but normal webbrowsing/desktop etc looks **** up:
TV function: http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer ... 5.usr1.jpg
PC function: http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer ... 9.usr1.jpg

The text and icons etc on the TV function look awful. The text is hard to read, and the icons looked terrible. There was a weird "ghosting" effect around the text as well. I went into the TV settings and turned down the 'Sharpness' to 0. That fixed this issue mostly but text is still harder to read than on the PC function. Also, when I compare the TV function with the standard sharpness vs the TV function with the sharpness at 0 (for movies), sharpness at 0 doesn't look as good as the standard sharpness (for movies). But the text looks aweful with this standard sharpness lol.

Also I noticed when I set the setting on the monitor as TV/DVD, there is a delay in mouse movement. So when I move my mouse, it takes a few miliseconds for the mouse to move on the screen. Pretty annoying (definitely for gaming).
________________________________________________________
So I guess the best thing for me to do is just keep my screens at the PC setting. And only when I wanna watch a movie I'll have to put it to TV setting then. Or does anyone have any other ideas?
Last edited by Captain Ned on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: EDIT BY MOD - Captain Ned - Please don't work around the word filter - Forum Rule #8
zedaxy
Gerbil In Training
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:55 am

The text and icons etc on the TV function look awful. The text is hard to read, and the icons looked terrible. There was a weird "ghosting" effect around the text as well.


I may have missed this already in the thread, but is the display changing resolutions on you when you switch between "TV" and "PC" mode, and then messing up the text via the scaler? As an example, I have a very cheap 39" LCD from a BestBuy Black Friday sale, and when driving it from my HTPC, 1080P does not quite fill the screen so it tries to use the scaler and chops up everything. If I disable the scaler, the quality is fixed, but now there's an extra inch of unused border around the image.

On the other hand, if I set the PC to 1680x1050, it fills the entire display and looks normal again. (As a side note, this forces the Windows aspect ratio slightly off-kilter -- 1.6:1 instead of 1.77:1 in the same physical display area -- but it's close enough for my use and willingness to pay.)
He who laughs last, laughs first next time.
ludi
Gerbil Elder
 
Posts: 5402
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Sunny Colorado front range

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:37 pm

ludi wrote:
The text and icons etc on the TV function look awful. The text is hard to read, and the icons looked terrible. There was a weird "ghosting" effect around the text as well.


I may have missed this already in the thread, but is the display changing resolutions on you when you switch between "TV" and "PC" mode, and then messing up the text via the scaler? As an example, I have a very cheap 39" LCD from a BestBuy Black Friday sale, and when driving it from my HTPC, 1080P does not quite fill the screen so it tries to use the scaler and chops up everything. If I disable the scaler, the quality is fixed, but now there's an extra inch of unused border around the image.

On the other hand, if I set the PC to 1680x1050, it fills the entire display and looks normal again. (As a side note, this forces the Windows aspect ratio slightly off-kilter -- 1.6:1 instead of 1.77:1 in the same physical display area -- but it's close enough for my use and willingness to pay.)

No resolution is Full HD, it doesn't switch scale. Resolution is good.
zedaxy
Gerbil In Training
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: Framerate + Depth of Field TV vs PC

Postposted on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:00 pm

I bet your HDTV is still pretty much at stock settings for the TV input, which is the 'look pretty on the showroom floor'-setting, with everything turned up and contrast up the wazoo. They do that because that will make the demo TV 'pop' so people take notice when they see it in the store. However, to try and 'pop' more than the TV right next to it, they usually turn up the saturation, contrast, brightness and sharpening way up beyond anything that you'd normally use in your living room. Usually, inputs marked as 'PC' inputs have all processing disabled, as things like frame interpolation and noise suppression add input lag and unwanted artifacts. Coincidentally, it seems that 'PC mode' also defaults to a more reasonable and neutral saturation/contrast/brightness setting. It's all in the settings in the TV!

Personally, I have my PC hooked up to my Philips HDTV with all processing turned off and mostly neutral settings. I'd want to calibrate it sometime, but for now it's just a rough guess. With good quality bluray video, it's awesome!
Firestarter
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:12 am


Return to Visual Haven

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests