How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

How we justify all that high-dollar hardware.

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How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:37 pm

Do you have low or high expectations? whenever you play mostly on PC, the arrival of new consoles certainly pushes the bar higher for what's available on PC, in fact I expect a jump in quality without having to upgrade GPU this time around.

Xbox 720:
Retail Price: $400 - $500 US dollars, $99-199$ w/ a subscription plan.

CPU – whatever it is I don't expect it'll be a huge
GPU – Some equivalent to a Radeon 8750 card,
RAM – 4 to 6 GB of Fast RAM or 8 to 16GB of slower ram
Kinect2 included in every box

PS4:
Retail Price: $400 - $500 US dollars, no subscription plan

CPU – Cell is dead, don't think they'll use it, but possible some moderately powerful APU
GPU – Also expect them to pact some variant of a high end GPU like maybe 8850 or 8870
RAM – Probable the same or lower than X720
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:57 pm

Expect the specs to be a system of about 2 years before the release date.

The specs are not to variable so the game developers have a standard to aim development at.
so if released today:
GPU would be in the AMD 69XX series possibly at the highest.
4-8 GB RAM as a cost cutting.
CPU may be in the power of a Sandy Bridge.

XBOX I do not see a Kinect being in every box... there are people that don't want them so a cost cutting/saving choice.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:57 pm

XBox 360 (and to a lesser extent, the PS3) were left behind by 1080p TVs. I can't help but think MS and Sony are going to repeat their mistake and do the same for the 720/PS4 with regards to 4K TVs.

With both MS and Sony admitting to longer product cycles in their consoles, this may not be a big deal now, but may become a major limiting factor in the middle to late years of the consoles.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:13 pm

Voldenuit wrote:XBox 360 (and to a lesser extent, the PS3) were left behind by 1080p TVs. I can't help but think MS and Sony are going to repeat their mistake and do the same for the 720/PS4 with regards to 4K TVs.

With both MS and Sony admitting to longer product cycles in their consoles, this may not be a big deal now, but may become a major limiting factor in the middle to late years of the consoles.

I could be incorrect, but when the 360 and PS3 launched, 1080p TVs were already available for expensive but obtainable prices. 4k TVs seem to be considerably more expensive (like $17,000 expensive), and therefore not something you should be targeting for typical consumers. At least not if you want to keep prices reasonable.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:17 pm

Voldenuit wrote:XBox 360 (and to a lesser extent, the PS3) were left behind by 1080p TVs. I can't help but think MS and Sony are going to repeat their mistake and do the same for the 720/PS4 with regards to 4K TVs.

With both MS and Sony admitting to longer product cycles in their consoles, this may not be a big deal now, but may become a major limiting factor in the middle to late years of the consoles.
While I certainly expect both console to target 1080p, it is be another good decade before 4K TV are even close to being mainstream, especially seeing how they are in the high end of 5 digits prices
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Yeah, the Ultra HD TVs (even though I normally hold disdain for names like ULTRA HD, the 4K name is actually even more confusing) are even more expensive than HD TVs were and honestly are a smaller visual jump compared to from 480i/p to 1080p especially at living room distances.

It would also make the hardware catastrophically expensive compared to targeting 1080p
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:21 pm

I'd say 2-4 GB on RAM, reason being the 360 came out with 512 MB when the "norm" for PC's was 1-2 GB.

While this will almost definitely not happen, I'd like to see enhanced backwards compatibility with current gen games. 1080p and framerate issues / lag spikes corrected. Would be nice particularly for Halo Reach / Halo 4 and Gears of War series. While I'd buy a new console for that (to an extent on price), such improvements obviously aren't mass-marketable so it's probably not gonna happen. It's unfortunate because even at current gen games' level of detail, you can't see a lot of it at <= 720p. I suppose no one cares because they're sitting too far from the TV anyways.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:31 pm

I'd be surprised if the PS4 couldn't support 4K TVs.. especially the way Sony is pushing them on the TV front. Also, everyone thought it would take a lot longer before HD was everywhere, and as we all know technology keeps moving ahead pretty fast. I wouldn't be surprised to be able purchase sub-$2000 4k TVs 3 or 4 years from now.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:43 pm

superjawes wrote:I could be incorrect, but when the 360 and PS3 launched, 1080p TVs were already available for expensive but obtainable prices. 4k TVs seem to be considerably more expensive (like $17,000 expensive), and therefore not something you should be targeting for typical consumers. At least not if you want to keep prices reasonable.


Well, neither the 720 nor the PS4 are due this year, so by the time they debut, 4k TVs will have dropped in price. By the mid-life of the consoles, they will probably be affordable. By the end of their lifecycle, they will be commonplace.

When the 360 launched in 2005, 1080p TVs were going for $3-8k. Correct those prices for inflation and you're probably looking at $4-10k of today's dollars. A couple years before the 360, they would have been twice the price.

A $399 gopro can record 4k video these days. By the time the 360/PS4 is 3-4 years old, smartphones will be recording 2.5k-4k video. I think MS and Sony should be forward thinking with this and not cheap out too much.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:47 pm

I wonder how long laptops will stay at 1366x768 while the 4k TV's roll in.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:54 pm

druidcent wrote:I'd be surprised if the PS4 couldn't support 4K TVs.. especially the way Sony is pushing them on the TV front. Also, everyone thought it would take a lot longer before HD was everywhere, and as we all know technology keeps moving ahead pretty fast. I wouldn't be surprised to be able purchase sub-$2000 4k TVs 3 or 4 years from now.

I think we can be confident that PS3 will be able to play 4K-Blu-ray or whatever content Sony comes up with, I wouldn't even be surpriced if a couple of PSN games support 4K resolution, but they will be few and far between.

Voldenuit wrote:A $399 gopro can record 4k video these days. By the time the 360/PS4 is 3-4 years old, smartphones will be recording 2.5k-4k video. I think MS and Sony should be forward thinking with this and not cheap out too much.
A problem with consoleS is that $400 in its market is already considere high-end and expensive, hell do you guys remember FIVE-HUNDRED-AND-NITETY-NINE-US-DOLLARS ? There is only so much forward think one can be under those limitation.

I bet if their consoles were guarantee to sellout at 1,000 buck, they do it, but as it is they can't
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:13 pm

Voldenuit wrote:Well, neither the 720 nor the PS4 are due this year, so by the time they debut, 4k TVs will have dropped in price. By the mid-life of the consoles, they will probably be affordable. By the end of their lifecycle, they will be commonplace.

When the 360 launched in 2005, 1080p TVs were going for $3-8k. Correct those prices for inflation and you're probably looking at $4-10k of today's dollars. A couple years before the 360, they would have been twice the price.

A $399 gopro can record 4k video these days. By the time the 360/PS4 is 3-4 years old, smartphones will be recording 2.5k-4k video. I think MS and Sony should be forward thinking with this and not cheap out too much.

By your own math (which I question), you're still talking twice the price relative to 1080p TVs in 2005, and if we don't see a new console this year, we WILL see one next year, and prices on 4k TVs aren't going to decrease until they are being made and sold in volume, which (as a catch-22 moment) requires lower prices and manufacturing costs. Right now 4k's are toys for rich people. In 3-4 years, maybe they won't be, but you aren't going to see them commonly in middle class homes.

Pairing that equation with consoles, Microsoft appears to have had some success selling a $100 360 with an XBL contract. To continue that success, they need their followup console to be affordable. $400-500 would be rough for some but doable while volumes ramp up, but trying to render more pixels will require higher cost and beefier hardware, and therefore higher costs than what the majority is willing to pay. QuickSilverD also made this point.

QuickSilverD wrote:I think we can be confident that PS3 will be able to play 4K-Blu-ray or whatever content Sony comes up with, I wouldn't even be surpriced if a couple of PSN games support 4K resolution, but they will be few and far between.
The PS3 is unlikely to support 4k Blu-Ray. PS4 might (but that says nothing for the games).

IIRC, the Blu-Ray drive in most PS3's were/are limited to 2x, which made accessing data from Blu-Rays slower than DVDs on the 360. Getting 4k resolution will absolutely require higher spin speeds.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:34 pm

Sure, but you've got to remember, Microsoft didn't start selling $100 Xbox 360's out of the gate. Those came much later to help keep pushing the sales of the console. I fully expect a new console to debut at $499 to soak the early adopters and fanboys, then slowly move down the price chain as manufacturing scales. Again, assuming that 4k TVs are not a fad, and they'll be the next iteration of TV technology, I think we'll see $5k TV's by 2014 (in the 50"+ range), and sub-$2k by 2015..

If Sony has a similar forecast, and don't put 4K capability in the PS4, I'll be shocked and amazed. Remember the PS3 came out with Blu-Ray playback when most blu-ray players were in the $1K range. People were buying PS3's for the BR playback. I think Sony has a good grasp on their entertainment strategy, and should have a capable solution.

I wouldn't put it past MS to think 1080p is good enough though. Or at least plan on implementing 4k as a software update later on (if they've got the right hardware)
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:37 pm

I wonder how long laptops will stay at 1366x768 while the 4k TV's roll in.

That made me cuss a little. The best I'm hoping for is something that scales directly to 4k.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:50 pm

Xbox720 will probably be an AMD APU. Probably a 640GB HDD. 2 GB ram.

PS4 will probably be an AMD CPU with a 8950 GPU equivalent. Probably a 120GB SSD. 4 GB ram.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:47 pm

I dunno but both consoles must fit in a tight power and heat budget, 250w max I think.

the current xbox slim only uses like 90w at full load...

AMD APUs are not powerful enough for a next gen hd console gaming unless its crossfired with a dedicated gpu...
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:58 pm

I'm betting they both start at around $350 for the lowest-tier version, and have 2GB RAM, or 4GB as an absolute maximum, so they can stay 32-bit. Sony especially got burned by making their console too expensive last round so I think they'll overcompensate in the opposite direction. Probably both will have crappy custom CPUs with 3 cores, or some crazy heterogeneous configuration that's impossible to program or write a good compiler for.

And I highly suspect neither will have any form of backwards-compatibility, since they want you to buy new DRM'd games, not old used ones from the last gen. And, of course, it's hard to do backwards-compatibility with different architectures.

Video-wise, both will promise (and deliver) 4k compatibility, but any game that delivers it will run at 5 fps and make you dizzy (like 1080p on the PS3).

Oh - and Xbox720 will probably be touchscreen-only :)
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:00 am

I think you'll see something akin to a Trinity A10 with perhaps some eDRAM - just enough for the frame buffer. On the Xbox 360, games get "free" (in terms of performance penalty) 2x MSAA due to the eDRAM on the GPU (incidentally the limitation cited by Eurogamer is probably the biggest reason Xbox games miss 720p more often than not). I think this time around you'll see FXAA but similar freebie results. And it launched in roughly the right timeframe as well - May of last year to what will probably end up being this Thanksgiving is adequate time, I think. Remember with the Xbox 360 the dev units were Power Mac G5s. You don't have to have actual hardware available to get started.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:55 am

Overall I expect the 720 hardware to cost 100 buckls more then the ps4 to make but retail for near same price...

Of this some will go to more ram.. 6-8 gig of higher speed ram then in ps4 where the ps4 will have only 2-4 gig..

A higher end cpu.. not just slightly either I expect the ps4 will still use an oddball cpu and it wont be fast. I expect the 720 will use an almost off the shelf amd cpu of around 2.6-3.4 ghz speed and at least 4 cores.

And mostly the gpu... I expect the xbox one will cost a good 35 bucks more then the ps4 one and will show it...
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:05 am

Given the long life-cycle of consoles I can't help wondering if they will be made more upgradeable. The ability to swap out a modular graphics card for a more powerful one or add an extra one in Crossfire configuration could be a real profit earner. This could be done half-way through the products life-cycle and would enable better graphics performance on newer games. If you didn't upgrade you could still play, it just wouldn't look as good. Consoles seem to be headed in the modular direction anyway if I'm not mistaken so this seems like a logical step given the rapid obsolescence of console hardware.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:56 am

Even a 7970 or 680 would choke trying to drive 4k resolutions at a constant 60fps.
We're probably at least two console generations away from 4k, unless we're willing to pay $1000+ for a console.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:54 am

I doubt it would be 4k native from end to end. The resources for games at that resolution are just too large. But half that res and scaled is possible, and like the current consoles there may be early games that push the envelope too far but devs will continually get better at exploiting the hardware.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:54 am

Xbox 360 and PS3's successors will be equipped with hardware that is powerful enough to effortlessly handle 2Megapixel gaming without being a blast furnace at a reasonable price level ($299-$399 USD). 4K output is only for movies and videos. They will probably have seamless support for portable devices and built-in WLAN (801.11g/n for compatibility and cost). Their standard controllers will incorporate some of the Wiimote's distinctive features. They might have 64-128GB SSDs rather rather than 500GB-1TB HDDs due to cost, performance and they to "force" people to stream multimedia content via their respectful services. Both consoles will have BR readers, since HD-DVD is already dead and dual-layer DVDs are becoming too small to handle the increasingly larger games. That is unless MS is going for the multi-disc route with the larger games. It is possible that successors will have 3D gaming support of some kind.

Your typical Gaming PCs will still grossly overclass both consoles in terms of hardware capabilities and performance.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:05 pm

From a cost and development pipeline standpoint you're going to see similar hardware in both systems. 4K resolution support is a no-go so don't even worry about it right now. That will come next generation. You're looking at specs within this frame.
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To save themselves the platform problems and production/compiler headaches I fully expect both camps to utilize standard Intel and AMD/nVidia chips. Microsoft made out well in this regard as the X360 is pretty much a standard PC (albeit with the strange tri-core thing going on). Sony shot themselves in the foot with CellBE and they paid dearly for it, both from development costs, learning curve, and the longer software development cycle to handle it. Sony won't be looking to make that mistake again while Microsoft will be trying to tie X720 closer to Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, and the Windows Marketplace, thus requiring standard .NET4.0+ capabilities that go further than the current X360 already provides.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:47 pm

Both camps will claim:
60fps gaming @ 1080p
4k movie playback
1080p streaming
Web surfing, Social Media integration

What we'll get:
A few first party, ports, CoD (why won't this engine die) and a bunch of crap 3rd party titles will do 60fps
Within a year all titles will be doing ~30fps but pump up eye candy
4k Movie playback will be meaningless because BluRay+ (or whatever it's called) movies will cost $40, most will simply be upscales of 1080p transfers, and be DRM infested junk
Streaming will still be dependent on whether you have a decent internet connection and a provider that isn't a data cap nazi
Web Surfing will be neutered and someone will figure out a way to brick systems through it
Social Media integration will have "impossible to turn off" "features" that will cause panic.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:22 pm

I don't care about the next gen consoles, I would just like to see developers putting storyline first like they used to. I would gladly pay top dollar for a remake of FFX just because I know some guys actually care about the storyline.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:01 pm

Star Brood wrote:I don't care about the next gen consoles, I would just like to see developers putting storyline first like they used to. I would gladly pay top dollar for a remake of FFX just because I know some guys actually care about the storyline.

Ask Bioware how well that worked out in The Old Republic.
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:05 pm

Would both consoles running on an x86 platform be good news for PC gamers and developers as far as the ease of porting games back and forth?
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:54 pm

Kotaku (and other sources) apparently have specs for the PS4's dev console: Link
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Re: How Powerful are you expecting Ps4 and Xbox 720 to be?

Postposted on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:20 pm

So... a low end gaming PC? Neat...
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