BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

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BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:51 pm

Up front I'm going to come clean that this is posted from a BlackBerry Z10. I work at QNX but on the other stuff, not the phones and Playbook. I've seen a lot of coverage elsewhere but nothing yet on TR.

What are your impressions? Do you think BB10 is going to save the company?
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:10 pm

Too early to tell if it will "save" teh company... From the videos I've seen it looks pretty "full-featured", but not sure how convenient all those features (especially the "slide random **** at random direction" GUI management) will be in day-to-day usage... Also, the map app looks kinda disappointingly simple and they are using the **** TeleAtlas/TomTom as a map data provider, which I think is a mistake (although understandably cheaper than using NAVTEQ or Google as map/traffic providers).
Last edited by JohnC on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:16 pm

1) They cut a dudes hair on stage during the keynote
2) Celebrity Creative Director
3) Why no Q10 review units?
4) Q10 has a 3.1" display!
5) What is up with BB dev videos? "Going down!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... iSzaWxRUSk

Jumped the shark.

http://goo.gl/UfTU9

Oh, and what is up with Android 2.3 emulation? That is just wrong.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:42 pm

I loved running QNX as a desktop back when they were giving it away. I think this was the late 90s. People could boot off a floppy and have a full featured OS, and it was super fast on the K6 I had at the time. Definitely one of my top two favourite operating systems of all time. :)

Enough gushing. On to the actual question.

I'm intrigued. QNX is designed for this type of operating environment, and a microkernel is well suited for a phone where one crashing service shouldn't affect the rest of the services. It has a nice style, and BB has always had a reputation of well thought out design. I've been holding off getting a new cellphone so I can check out BB10. Jolla and Firefox OS are the other two I've been keeping an eye on, but they are far from being released.

It could save the company, but it depends on the execution of the services. BlackBerry still has a lot of brand recognition and good will. BBs weren't bad. They just weren't the new hotness, and they got stale. If BB can keep up to date, they stand a chance of being a player because of the good will. They always had little things that solved problems that made them easier to live with.

BB always did a really poor job of leveraging BIS. They never expanded it to include Twitter, Facebook, XMPP, etc. They could have made BBs a one stop communication hub, but they didn't. It sounds like they took those services into account this time, but I'll have to see how they did it.

Being tied to BIS/BES was kind of a hindrance, as nice as it could be at times. BB10 is going to have to have options. Native ActiveSync would pretty nice.

However, Google has the services and Apple has the apps. It's going to be tough to overcome those.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:08 pm

Well I've owned a Playbook since launch and have loved it. I'm currently waiting for my carrier to open up pre-orders for the Z10. I really do think that BB10 is going to bring RIM back into the US market in force.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:15 pm

Philldoe wrote:Well I've owned a Playbook since launch and have loved it. I'm currently waiting for my carrier to open up pre-orders for the Z10. I really do think that BB10 is going to bring RIM BlackBerry back into the US market in force.


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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:16 pm

If you take the stock market as any sort of indicator, it's just too little too late. Down 12% today.

OR

It's an artificial buying opportunity. It could take us by storm like the original iphone.

I'd personally put my money into Nokia.

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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:59 pm

chµck wrote:If you take the stock market as any sort of indicator, it's just too little too late. Down 12% today.

OR

It's an artificial buying opportunity. It could take us by storm like the original iphone.

I'd personally put my money into Nokia.

Disclaimer: I own neither.

Buy on rumour, sell on news. Just SOP of the stock market.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:16 am

B.t.w, Gizmodo just did a quick camera test for Z10... Looks like it has worse light sensitivity than other "flagship" phones on other platforms.
http://gizmodo.com/5980316/blackberry-z ... -long-time
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:04 am

Q10 and Z10 are very different phones for different markets

Q10 (with qwerty keyboard) is easier to analyze
as soon as it's release, unless a major disaster happens, there will be an rush to upgrade. after all, the last bb phone was nearly 2 years ago.
requirements for Q10 is clear
- good great keyboard
- good screen
- long battery life (multi-day)
- great network connection
- faster (than prev bb) cpu
- better browser
- and the usual bb stuff: security, etc etc

the simple reason Q10 is released later than Z10 (by months) is Q10 is the bread and butter BB phone. any bugs found on QNX (Z10) must be fixed before Q10 is released.

on the other hand, great GPU and camera on Q10? meh, nice to have, who cares

like I said. Q10 should sell well, even if we see no line ups at BestBuy

Z10 has a completely different target audience
- must be comparable to iPhones and new Androids, has to be better than Win8 phones
- fast CPU GPU for gaming
- lots of apps
- slick UI
- good camera, does video
- preferably hip and shiny and lots of bling bling

and there, Z10 is, at best, a mid range phone. Duel core cpu, ok camera, fair app selection, so so battery life. It has a very good UI, but so does Win8, and it's having a tough time gaining traction, and the guy behind Win8 is just so much bigger. Z10 is coming out in March in the States, but so is rumored Galaxy S4, at a similar price.

I think it's going to be tough
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:36 am

I am going to get a Z10. Two reasons:

1. I am preferring a phone that takes communications and PIM seriously and the Blackberry Hub and the well-designed keyboard appears to be doing just that. Nowadays I don't play games or watch movies on my phone, and so having the latest games and content available was not a priority. Web browsing was a priority and it appears to be comparable to other platforms, or perhaps even ahead of other platforms given features like WebGL support in the browser.

2. I am a geek who loves programming. The BB10 developer tools are first-rate and actually fun to use. First-class C++, Qt and OpenGL support is great. I have several apps working already in the simulator.

The lack-luster maps app and mediocre camera sensor is still a concern, but I guess I will take a chance.
Will it be a broad success? I don't know. I do think this was a decent showing, but Blackberry needs to continue to work hard on the obviously missing features and apps. I also think they have identified their core audience very well, and have smartly decided to not go after everyone. As long as they are able to continuosly occupy 8-10% of the market, they will do fine.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:42 am

codedivine wrote: As long as they are able to continuosly occupy 8-10% of the market, they will do fine.

What was the most they sold in a quarter? 13.2 million? Last quarter it was 7.4 million. Apple and Samsung alone sold roughly 100 million smartphones last quarter.

How many BB10 devices are you forecasting?

Edit: Add in the 20-30+ million in Android/iOS tablets per quarter (52.5 million in the most recent holiday quarter) and the BB ecosystem is going to be much smaller than 8-10%.
Last edited by End User on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:43 am

JohnC wrote:B.t.w, Gizmodo just did a quick camera test for Z10... Looks like it has worse light sensitivity than other "flagship" phones on other platforms.
http://gizmodo.com/5980316/blackberry-z ... -long-time

Probably why it's one of the only brand of phones allowed in government buildings.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:04 am

End User wrote:
codedivine wrote: As long as they are able to continuosly occupy 8-10% of the market, they will do fine.

What was the most they sold in a quarter? 13.2 million? Last quarter it was 7.4 million. Apple and Samsung alone sold roughly 100 million smartphones last quarter.

How many BB10 devices are you forecasting?

Edit: Add in the 20-30+ million in Android/iOS tablets per quarter and the BB ecosystem is going to be much smaller than 8-10%.

Windows Phone is not even at 10% yet, both will be jumping up and down if they ever reach that.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:06 am

notfred wrote:What are your impressions?


Too little too late?

(seriously, I doubt it will save the company. They will probably just end up getting bought out /shrug)
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:37 am

Can't wait for Q10. Will buy it as soon as I can. Blackberry keyboards for the win.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:43 am

destroy.all.monsters wrote:Can't wait for Q10. Will buy it as soon as I can. Blackberry keyboards for the win.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxSbkfwHgc
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:46 am

End User wrote:
destroy.all.monsters wrote:Can't wait for Q10. Will buy it as soon as I can. Blackberry keyboards for the win.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxSbkfwHgc


I would bet a lot of money that the average physical keyboard Blackberry user types faster, on average, than the average iPhone user. I LOVED my Bold keyboard when I had it.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:19 am

DancinJack wrote:
End User wrote:
destroy.all.monsters wrote:Can't wait for Q10. Will buy it as soon as I can. Blackberry keyboards for the win.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fxSbkfwHgc


I would bet a lot of money that the average physical keyboard Blackberry user types faster, on average, than the average iPhone user. I LOVED my Bold keyboard when I had it.

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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:32 am

A BlackBerry Bold and a Galaxy Nexus. Only use the Bold for work now. Guess I shouldn't have said "when I had it."
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:59 am

tanker27 wrote:
notfred wrote:What are your impressions?


Too little too late?

(seriously, I doubt it will save the company. They will probably just end up getting bought out /shrug)


Considering that BlackBerry's are top selling phones outside of the U.S. I don't see them dieing off. Despite their poor U.S. sales, they are selling quite well everywhere else and still have a lot of money in the bank. Remember Siemens was hurting very badly some time ago and guess who pulled them out of it. Thorsten Heins, current CEO of BlackBerry. The company has went through massive changes, all of them seem to be working out quite well.

As a side note, I found an article stating the BlackBerry Playbook outsold the latest iPad in the UK for the past 2 months.

http://bgr.com/2013/01/29/ipad-sales-uk-blackberry-playbook-310687/
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:20 pm

Philldoe wrote:As a side note, I found an article stating the BlackBerry Playbook outsold the latest iPad in the UK for the past 2 months.

http://bgr.com/2013/01/29/ipad-sales-uk-blackberry-playbook-310687/

A couple of points:

1) These numbers are for distributors - they do not include sales through Apple's online or retail stores
2) The latest iPad is the iPad mini. Why ignore the iPad 4/3/2?
3) Distributors sold 203,000 iPads (starting @ £269) vs 160,000 Playbooks @ £129

So no, the Playbook did not outsell the latest iPad in the UK.
Last edited by End User on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:29 pm

I love the way the touch screen keyboard handles predictive text - but that's the only thing I'm really jealous of.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:12 pm

Blackberry is competing against Apple, Google and Microsoft. Does it have a chance? I think not!

BBM remains their USP which is a big plus. They dont have nothing to offer to non BB users who have tasted Android and iOS.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:25 pm

- The presentation was pretty darn corny.
- The OS looks absolutely awesome. It seems to put usefulness in mind and has lots of neat touches, especially for actual typing. Also, with QNX inside it, it's going to be hellishly fast/smooth, unless BlackBerry screwed something up real bad.
- The Z10 looks like a pretty good phone, but 65.6mm wide is too much for me - I'm hunting for a <=60mm-wide phone with a high-DPI screen and am having real issues finding one that's not an iPhone and has up-to-date software. Also, I don't understand why they didn't just use a bigger screen instead of wasting lots of real estate. If it was battery concerns, they could have easily added another millimeter of thickness for a bigger battery.
- Having said that, the way that Samsung and LG's ginormous phones are selling, I don't see the big hardware being an issue.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:57 pm

Thoughts? I couldn't possibly have any, there are no shipping BlackBerry 10 products.

There is tons of potential though.

There's honestly few high quality options in the smartphone market. My Atrix 4G is approaching 2 years old now. If I hadn't dropped it in water there would be zero reason to replace it. But I did and though it worked fine for a couple of weeks the WiFi has decided it will never turn back on and random reboots in its place. Bummer. I need a replacement and I've been looking and the choices are.... disappointing.

Functionality I expect from my phone is quickly evaporating. microSD slot? For some reasoning vanishing from $500 phones. User replaceable battery? Even less common than the microSD slot it seems. Want a phone that isn't huge (I consider the Atrix, which is 4", the limit if not too large) but still of high quality? Going away. I'd also love it if I can have the expectation of regular software updates, which my Atrix never had, this is one of my key apprehensions of buying another Android phone (and obviously given the above the iPhone isn't an option).

So yeah, tons of potential for BlackBerry to come in and deliver. I think the two announced phones are interesting. The Q10 while not something I'd consider suggests to me BlackBerry wants to make devices for those like me who are disappointed in the current options. I wish the Z10 were smaller but then again I'll need to replace the Atrix 4G sooner anyway. Still... the OS looks interesting, they're going to make devices not solely in the mode of iPhone-wanna-be, and I'm confident they'll provide good support. Potential is there.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:26 pm

Stalin wrote:Blackberry is competing against Apple, Google and Microsoft. Does it have a chance? I think not!

BBM remains their USP which is a big plus. They dont have nothing to offer to non BB users who have tasted Android and iOS.


BBM used to be the USP before BB10. For BB10, the USP is "getting things done", which includes many things such as proper multitasking and focus on communication in general (not just BBM).
I am myself an Android user (moving from a Galaxy S2) and developer (two published apps in Play store) who has never previously used a Blackberry phone. I don't care at all about BBM, but I am still going to get one because it looks like the ideal product for me. I do think there is something on offer here, but whether it is enough and whether people will even give it a chance is another thing.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:35 pm

End User wrote:
Philldoe wrote:As a side note, I found an article stating the BlackBerry Playbook outsold the latest iPad in the UK for the past 2 months.

http://bgr.com/2013/01/29/ipad-sales-uk-blackberry-playbook-310687/

A couple of points:

1) These numbers are for distributors - they do not include sales through Apple's online or retail stores
2) The latest iPad is the iPad mini. Why ignore the iPad 4/3/2?
3) Distributors sold 203,000 iPads (starting @ £269) vs 160,000 Playbooks @ £129

So no, the Playbook did not outsell the latest iPad in the UK.


You ignore my words of "last 2 months"

According to Context, the PlayBook shifted 160,000 units and the latest-generation iPad 113,000 units over the Christmas period...


So yes, for the past 2 month it did out-sell the latest iPad.

Stalin wrote:Blackberry is competing against Apple, Google and Microsoft. Does it have a chance? I think not!

BBM remains their USP which is a big plus. They dont have nothing to offer to non BB users who have tasted Android and iOS.


Yeah, I think it does. MS has been trying to grab the #3 spot from RIM/Blackberry for some time now and it keeps failing to do so.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:47 pm

@End User - can't tell if you're an Apple zealot or merely anti-Blackberry but it seems like you're reaching. A real, well designed keyboard is worth its weight in gold. I recall people actively advocating for mushy rubber dome keyboards coming from Logitech at the same time those of us were buying and adoring our mechanical keyboards. I see this as the same thing.

I couldn't care less if someone on an iphone types at the speed of light because it doesn't help me any and doesn't do what I want it to do which is to provide a superior physical keyboard and a UI I actually like.

Philldoe is exactly right - Blackberry is still ahead of Windows Phone. We can speculate about the future (as pointless as I think that is) but MS would die to have BB's market share.
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Re: BlackBerry 10 thoughts?

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:24 pm

The only blackberry I've touched is a Curve which I purchased for an employee. I didn't really like it, but what I *do* like is the Blackberry brand. That is, the logo, the name, and what they stand for (that is, really powerful email and messaging.. which really, is what phones are for!).

I saw the z10 and q10, and I'm really impressed.
I think they did a lot right....
- Kept product range simple and sweet: One with a touch screen only, one with a touch-screen/QWERTY hybrid. Specs and design largely the same otherwise.
- They identified where Apple, Google, and others have moved forward and accepted where they had to simply copy. Microsoft tried to do practically *everything* different with windows 8, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So that's why Windows 8 is pretty hit and miss in some areas.
- Yet Blackberry still held onto what they represent, and tried to leap forward in those areas to prove that they're still boss. Their "hub" feature looks very good, despite being a numbingly simple idea ("combine all your X into one Y", pretty much every new feature these days). They kept QWERTY keyboard as an option.
- The phone and operating system as a whole looks fantastic, except the home screen looks like it's sitting on the fence between the old and new.

Overall, it could be 'too little too late', but they can start nibbling their way into the market again until they come up with something really revolutionary.. which really, is what we're all waiting for.
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