27" vs 30" Displays

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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:51 pm

NarwhaleAu wrote:The 30" on the other hand gives you the vertical space you need. It feels like a different class of monitor.


I have to admit, I agree with this statement 100 percent. I often sit down and wish I had went with the 30" Ultrasharp instead of the 27" version. However, three things swayed me to go with the 27" U2713: (1) literally half the price; (2) noticeably better response rate; (3) games run a bit better at the lower resolution.

In an ideal world, I would have a 30" Ultrasharp for general use, and a 24" monitor with a 120Hz refresh rate for gaming.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:59 pm

Spyder22446688 wrote:I have to admit, I agree with this statement 100 percent. I often sit down and wish I had went with the 30" Ultrasharp instead of the 27" version. However, three things swayed me to go with the 27" U2713: (1) literally half the price; (2) noticeably better response rate; (3) games run a bit better at the lower resolution.

In an ideal world, I would have a 30" Ultrasharp for general use, and a 24" monitor with a 120Hz refresh rate for gaming.

No way. I would trade responsiveness for a better and more immersive image any day, even for gaming. I'm not a pro gamer, what do I care if it doesn't update for two frames instead of just one?

Input devices are a different story though. It will drive me crazy if my mouse lags behind.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:03 pm

DeadOfKnight wrote:No way. I would trade responsiveness for a better and more immersive image any day, even for gaming. I'm not a pro gamer, what do I care if it doesn't update for two frames instead of just one?


I like to play a lot of shooters, and playing with a ghosty or laggy screen really becomes a problem. I used to have a 17" Viewsonic with terrible ghosting, it was miserable.

Eh, in an ideal world I'd have a 30" 16:10 IPS display with a 120Hz refresh rate, but that does not appear likely anytime soon.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:11 pm

Spyder22446688 wrote:I like to play a lot of shooters, and playing with a ghosty or laggy screen really becomes a problem. I used to have a 17" Viewsonic with terrible ghosting, it was miserable.

Eh, in an ideal world I'd have a 30" 16:10 IPS display with a 120Hz refresh rate, but that does not appear likely anytime soon.

I like shooters too, but I play mostly single player or co-op. I don't even notice the latency, or maybe I'm just used to it. I haven't tried them side-by-side to know what all the fuss is about gaming monitors. Anyway, I think I'd have to get a lot better than I am now for it to really make a difference. Twitch style shooters never really appealed to me anyway. The only game I've been even remotely competitive with is Starcraft. Of course, for Strcraft 2 you wanna stick with 16:9 res and you're better off with a 27" so you can more readily see something far off to the edge of the screen, at least if you sit as close to the screen as I do. I think sitting up close to a 30" would be even better than triple monitor for immersion.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:14 pm

DeadOfKnight wrote:I haven't tried them side-by-side to know what all the fuss is about gaming monitors.


After reading how smooth everything becomes, I have been intentionally avoiding looking at 120Hz monitors. I am afraid that I will see one and instantly be ruined for all other monitors. It's such a shame that the technology is only currently available in crappy 23" 1080p TN panels.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:21 pm

Spyder22446688 wrote:After reading how smooth everything becomes, I have been intentionally avoiding looking at 120Hz monitors. I am afraid that I will see one and instantly be ruined for all other monitors. It's such a shame that the technology is only currently available in crappy 23" 1080p TN panels.

Apparently some of those 3D displays are kind of exceptions to the rule of TN being crappy, from what I've read. They are essentially the cream of the crop as far as TN panels are concerned. Better, more vivid colors and even wider viewing angles than you're used to seeing on most TN panels. However, they still fall very much short of what we're used to on IPS etc. You just can't deny the awesomeness of using a higher resolution than 1080p.
Last edited by DeadOfKnight on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:27 pm

I have been using 30" for the past 3 years and cannot imaging going back to anything of a lesser size.

AA is still required because jagged lines are still visible even at 2560x1600.

If you are planning to play games I would recommend to invest in high performance Video Card such as HD7970 as it has excellent AA performance.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:31 pm

michael_d wrote:I have been using 30" for the past 3 years and cannot imaging going back to anything of lesser size.

AA is still required because jagged line are still visible even at 2560x1600.

A 27" has noticeably smaller pixels and pitch than the 30" though, so I think you could easily get away with 4xMSAA and the jaggies will disappear completely.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:36 pm

michael_d wrote:If you are planning to play games I would recommend to invest in high performance Video Card such as HD7970 as it has excellent AA performance.

I will most likely be getting a GTX 670 or similar of 2013's upcoming cards.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:39 pm

I have dual 670s. Very nice. I am able to run Excel at full detail, max quality.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:45 pm

Part of me just can't wait for 4K@120Hz to be the new standard. I just wonder what's taking so long. These monitors have just been stagnating at the same prices for years now with small revisions that don't change a whole lot of anything.

Only recently do they seem to be releasing more mainstream versions of the high-end monitors, but the high end hasn't really moved at all.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:50 pm

I've gotten pretty comfy with a dualhead setup using two U2311Hs.
My main work monitor is on the left, and then the right side monitor is for having a runtime display of whatever i'm working on, or for playing movies while I work.

You guys think upgrading to a U3011+U2711 is a good idea? I figure this way my left-side work monitor gets the extra space from 16:10, while the right side monitor keeps the 16:9 aspect ratio and avoids black bars when playing movies.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:07 am

jihadjoe wrote:I've gotten pretty comfy with a dualhead setup using two U2311Hs.
My main work monitor is on the left, and then the right side monitor is for having a runtime display of whatever i'm working on, or for playing movies while I work.

You guys think upgrading to a U3011+U2711 is a good idea? I figure this way my left-side work monitor gets the extra space from 16:10, while the right side monitor keeps the 16:9 aspect ratio and avoids black bars when playing movies.

I honestly don't get the aversion to black bars. If I get a 30" I can still run games and movies in 16:9 and they'll be bigger and use the same amount of pixels. The pixels will be bigger. That's the only downside, unless you have bad eyesight.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:40 am

Well, I finally did it. I couldn't pass up this deal on the U2711 for $550: http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/dell-ultr ... 18859.aspx
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:27 am

Guess I spoke too soon. They cancelled my order without so much as an e-mail. Hmmph. Guess I'll just have to wait then for another promo.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:43 am

DeadOfKnight wrote:Guess I spoke too soon. They cancelled my order without so much as an e-mail. Hmmph. Guess I'll just have to wait then for another promo.


You could get a Korean 1440p screen and a really-nice VESA desk arm and keep the $125 you saved for something fun?
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:29 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
DeadOfKnight wrote:Guess I spoke too soon. They cancelled my order without so much as an e-mail. Hmmph. Guess I'll just have to wait then for another promo.


You could get a Korean 1440p screen and a really-nice VESA desk arm and keep the $125 you saved for something fun?


I agree with Chrispy (not that I ever really disagree with him)- if you can participate in the 27" lottery to make sure you get a good copy with a decent cabinet, it'd probably be worth the trouble. It'd especially be nice if you could get one with a less-aggressive anti-glare coating that's more optimized for lower ambient light usage (Dell's pro monitors use to assume a well-lit office, not a gamer's den or digital darkroom) and one without any scalar or OSD to keep the input lag down. And then add a decent stand or arm, and you'd be set.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:56 pm

To get back on the aspect ratio story, let's provide some numbers on screen area:
http://wilcobrouwer.nl/bestanden/GetPanelProperties.7z

This little MATLAB script provides info about screen area of some common screen formats:

Code: Select all
Properties of a 30" panel of ratio 8/5 (2560/1600):
   width   = 25.4399 inch
   height  = 15.9 inch
   area    = 404.494 square inch
   density = 100.629 ppi

Properties of a 29" panel of ratio 64/27 (2560/1080):
   width   = 26.7196 inch
   height  = 11.2723 inch
   area    = 301.191 square inch
   density = 95.81 ppi

Properties of a 27" panel of ratio 16/9 (2560/1440):
   width   = 23.5325 inch
   height  = 13.2371 inch
   area    = 311.501 square inch
   density = 108.786 ppi

Properties of a 26" panel of ratio 8/5 (1920/1200):
   width   = 22.048 inch
   height  = 13.78 inch
   area    = 303.82 square inch
   density = 87.0829 ppi

Properties of a 24" panel of ratio 16/9 (1920/1080):
   width   = 20.9178 inch
   height  = 11.7663 inch
   area    = 246.125 square inch
   density = 91.7878 ppi

Properties of a 22" panel of ratio 8/5 (1680/1050):
   width   = 18.656 inch
   height  = 11.66 inch
   area    = 217.528 square inch
   density = 90.0516 ppi


Here you can what difference the aspect ratio makes when talking about screen area. My good old Samsung T260 (from the end of the 16:10 era) has the same screen area as a 27" 16:9 or a 29" 21:9 screen. Also note the monstrous area gap between a 26" 16:10 and a 24" 16:9 panel: you get 25% more area for two extra inches. Similarly, a 30" 16:10 has 33% more screen area than a 27" 16:9 panel. Just keep that in mind.

If it's worth the €500 (difference between U2711 and U3011 over here in the Netherlands) is another story of course, but 'just' three inches more (11%) provides 34% more area!
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:34 pm

I'm working with the U2713 right now and it's great. I would say though that for how far away I sit from it (roughly arm's length), I wish it was 25". As it is, the edges are just far enough into my peripheral vision that I have to move my eyes to really see what is happening there in games.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:40 am

Chrispy_ wrote:You could get a Korean 1440p screen and a really-nice VESA desk arm and keep the $125 you saved for something fun?


I actually did this and it turned out to be a bad idea.

The VESA mounting hardware on my Catleap wasn't very high quality. At first it was just wobbly and then actually broke under the strain. I ended up having to open the monitor up and attach the arm using washers and nuts. Be forewarned that everything about these monitors is cheap except for the panel.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:50 am

Orwell wrote:If it's worth the €500 (difference between U2711 and U3011 over here in the Netherlands) is another story of course, but 'just' three inches more (11%) provides 34% more area!

And less pixel density.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:10 am

kumori wrote:The VESA mounting hardware on my Catleap wasn't very high quality.


Yeah, very true. I've been particularly unimpressed by the Catleap build-quality (in reviews, never seen one in the flesh), but I would check as many reviews as you can if you jump on the 27" Korean bandwagon.

I did loads of research and the one to get (no glass, no scaler, just power, backlight brightness and a DL-DVI connector) is probably still the Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite. Make sure you get one with a 115 and 230V power brick, Korea only uses 230V by default.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:34 am

DeadOfKnight wrote:
Orwell wrote:If it's worth the €500 (difference between U2711 and U3011 over here in the Netherlands) is another story of course, but 'just' three inches more (11%) provides 34% more area!

And less pixel density.


Do you realize just how meaningless 'pixel density' is without considering a panel's surface area is? An iPhone 5 beats the hell out of that 27" IPS panel's pixel density, would you prefer to improvise one of those as your desktop monitor instead?


It's early :).
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:41 am

You guys don't think it's worth the premium to get a dell 27" on sale? I mean, aside from the great build quality, they even have a great guarantee and advance exchange warranty. You may be right about the antiglare coating, but the new ones are supposed to be a lot better. Maybe if I can catch the U2713HM on sale that would be ideal as I don't need the card reader, massive color gamut, or adobe RGB standards as I'm not that big into photo editing and all of that. It has less lag than all the other dell 27 inchers in the past, but I do actually want the scaler because I'll be hooking everything up to it including my PS3. Another option would be the Asus PB278Q which is faster, but it's not much cheaper and has other drawbacks.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:09 pm

I can attest that the new Dell anti-glare coating is nice. I tried a 2407W a while back and the anti-glare was immediately noticable and bothered me. I wasn't going out of my way to be nitpicky or anything, but there was no denying it was there and strong. I avoided Dell monitors ever since then until I read the U2713HM has a much improved anti-glare coating and it definitely does - there's no 'sparkly' look whatsoever. Just need to turn down the default brightness, same as pretty much every other monuitor out there, and the few nitpick complaints people write about in forum threads go away. The pixel pitch is also clearly sharper than my previous LP2475W (24" 1920:1200)
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:27 pm

The U2711 is a great screen if you can get it cheap; Whilst bland, the stand is very high quality and the USB hub is handy too.

The H-IPS panel is (subjectively) inferior to the S-IPS of the Korean screens, with the notable issue being the backlight; Being CCFL rather than LED, it's superior for the first year of use but CCFL backlights tend to shift from blueish to yellow as they fade and dim with age. Don't get me wrong, even the 2 year old U2711 across from me at the office still invokes jealousy though, even if the tired CCFL means that it can't be accurately calibrated anymore.

Dell claim 12-bit internal colour processing, but the panel is 8-bit and your graphics card will likely feed it an 8-bit signal so it's just dumbass marketing spin designed to inflate spec-sheets for absolutely no benefit to non-Quadro/FireGL users.

The other thing to be wary of is input lag. The panel is a decent 6ms G2G like the Philips S-IPS but the U2711 has pretty high lag (another 30ms or more, probably a result of that pointless 12-bit internal colour processing). In games that means you're going to be at least two extra frames behind - add that to a partial frame being delayed by vSync and you will typically be three or four frames behind what your game engine has just rendered. How responsive do games feel at 15 fps? That's the equivalent input-lag sensation you'll get when your image lags four 60Hz frames behind what is rendered. By contrast, the Korean screens without an OSD or scaler are better than even some of the gaming-specific 120Hz screens, solely in terms of input lag.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:36 pm

The new U2713H and U2713HM are LED backlit as well, lol. They're completely new animals.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:37 pm

i recently went from an apple LED cinema 27" (2560x1440) to a crossover 30q5 pro (2560x1600). and yes, the size difference is very noticeable.

in gaming, i've noticed an improvement. at least for BF3 (i play competitively), the drop in PPI resulted in me being able to shoot more accurately. BF3 scales properly to resolution, but assumes ~96 PPI for everything. this means that the 108 PPI of the cinema display actually gave me proportionally smaller image (and thus smaller targets). the 30q5's 101 PPI is a welcome change in that regard. also, BF3 does not scale its HUD at all. this means that at 2560x1600, the expanded minimap only takes up a small portion of the screen, as opposed to 1/4 of a 1080p screen. the additional situation awareness is pure awesomeness, especially as a tank driver.

otherwise, the picture quality is top notch, and any color balance issue (mine is very green) was easily corrected using my display drivers. input lag is not noticeable.

the downsides are the build quality (it's pretty crappy), as well as noticeable coil whine. the former i partially correct by getting a better stand. the latter i corrected by overclocking it to 73 Hz.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:18 pm

DeadOfKnight wrote:The new U2713H and U2713HM are LED backlit as well, lol. They're completely new animals.

Sure, but you were talking about the U2711 you ordered. No LED's in there apart from the little ones in the power button ;)

If you can get a U2713HM for $550 I think it's worth it over a Korean screen which is going to be $400 with a decent desk arm. You get the warranty and the build-quality for your extra outlay.
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Re: 27" vs 30" Displays

Postposted on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:13 pm

I don't know when Dell lowered the aggressiveness of the anti-glare coatings on the higher end Ultrasharps, but it must have been sometime toward the end of the u3011 run. Reading reviews on the u3011, you see a lot of complaints about the over-the-top AG coating. However, I recently went from a 3007WFP to a u3011 (last revision) and found the coating to be significantly more subdued on the u3011. I much prefer it to the 3007wfp.
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