G41M4-F Board with GTX 650

[uni-mitation]

Knowns

Specs:

Monitor- Planar PJ19W 18.5" wide 1366 x 766 (16:9) VGA input
Motherboard: G41M4-F from MSI
CPU: Pentium E 6500
RAM: DDR2-800, two DIMMS each with 2GBs for 4GBs total
PSU: 750 Watt Power Supply from Ultra (I know, not as efficient as other, but i see no reason to ditch it since it has worked for me)
Case: HAF 912 Plus from CoolerMaster

I have omitted storage since It is irrelevant to the scope of the discussion.

Unknowns

"GTX 650" refers to any of the possible GTX 650 cards sold by various manufacturers since i still haven't made a decision on one

1- Since i use a PCl-e 1.0 motherboard slot, and I decide to opt for an GTX 650 card which uses PCl-e 3.0, what level of certainty i am guaranteed that it will work?

2- Will this GTX 650 card be able to run at high settings games like Total War: Medieval II and Total War: Empire?

3- What kind of performance hit will the card take given that it is plugged into a PCl-e 1.0 slot, and will be noticeable enough to not warrant such buy?

4- Since I have a Pentium Dual Core from a dead 775 platform, and I am gaming in such a relative small resolution, how much will the CPU hold the card back?

5- What card would you recommend for such casual gamer as me with a budget of 150 dollars since i am not looking to play the most recent games but games that are 2-3 years old?

Acknowledgements

Thank you for all your time and effort in advance for such poor soul as me. P;

No good deed goes unpunished.

[nanoflower]

If that MB truly only has 1.0 PCI-E slots then I don't think it will work. However, I believe that you probably have PCI-E 1.1 slots which should work. I did some research last week and found that Nvidia cards (including the 600 series ) are supposed to work fine in 1.1 slots. AMD cards (including the 7000 series) are supposed to work but may not due to how they implemented their power savings (taking advantage of some of the newer PCI-E features.) I can't say for sure that any of this is true but it's what I've read from someone that supposedly checked with AMD/Nvidia people in addition to doing a few checks him/herself.

[morphine]

1 - Theoretically it should work.
2 - Yes, if you had the CPU to match. Given that as far as I can tell, the Total War games are CPU-bound, you'd still see a boost, but just not as big as you'd hoped.
3 - No idea, really.
4 - Yes. By a lot.
5 - Probably a GTX 560 ($170), or the AMD equivalent (7850? Can't recall at the moment).

My recommendation? Save money and upgrade the whole thing.

[uni-mitation]

If that MB truly only has 1.0 PCI-E slots then I don't think it will work. However, I believe that you probably have PCI-E 1.1 slots which should work. I did some research last week and found that Nvidia cards (including the 600 series ) are supposed to work fine in 1.1 slots. AMD cards (including the 7000 series) are supposed to work but may not due to how they implemented their power savings (taking advantage of some of the newer PCI-E features.) I can't say for sure that any of this is true but it's what I've read from someone that supposedly checked with AMD/Nvidia people in addition to doing a few checks him/herself.

I read that the PCl-e standard is supposed to be backward compatible. From going to the MSI website, and my own motherboard's documentation I am fairly certain that I only have PCl-e 1.0 slot.

Thanks for the help.

[uni-mitation]

1 - Theoretically it should work.
2 - Yes, if you had the CPU to match. Given that as far as I can tell, the Total War games are CPU-bound, you'd still see a boost, but just not as big as you'd hoped.
3 - No idea, really.
4 - Yes. By a lot.
5 - Probably a GTX 560 ($170), or the AMD equivalent (7850? Can't recall at the moment).

My recommendation? Save money and upgrade the whole thing.

1- Why a GTX 560 ? Is it because I'd be getting more bang for the buck than a current GTX 650 card? Do they lower the prices when a new series is introduced to clear the previous one?

2- Does a pentium G630 have enough power if I decided to go with the 1555 platform with a GTX 560 card since i am more likely to be CPU-bound? Or do i get the cheapest I3 core for good measure? I am planning on keeping everything else including the monitor.

[DPete27]

1) Here's an article comparing the 560 to the 650Ti (2GB). As noted in the article, performance differences between the 1GB and 2 GB variants should be minimal at 1080p resolutions but the 1GB cards will still be slower. You can see that the 560 and 650Ti cards perform roughly the same. The 7850 1GB generally beats the 650Ti 2GB. I would go for a current-gen card and pick whichever is cheaper. (take notice of the free included games with the 7850)

2) If your budget is restricted to a G630-priced CPU, it is a fine choice. I don't know if you'll see much gaming improvement going to an i3 besides what the higher clocks and faster supported memory speeds get you. The next logical step up would be to an i5 for $180. (that's just the cheapest i5 on newegg) More and more games are able to utilize more than 2 cores/threads. The best option would be if you have access to a microcenter where you can get the best prices around.

[morphine]

Ah, I hadn't noticed that the GTX 650 was so cheap. Then in that case, I'd recommend that as a nice midrange card. If you're going to buy a new monitor (you really should, 1366x768 is very pokey), spring for the 2GB variant.

[DPete27]

If you're interested, here is an article that includes CPU gaming performance comparisons including a Core2 Duo E6400 for your comparison. Keep in mind that most of the games used in that article are CPU bound, which isn't the case for all games. Unfortunately TR decided NOT to include an i3 in their latest inside the second gaming with CPUs article. Shame.

[morphine]

If you're interested, here is an article that includes CPU gaming performance comparisons including a Core2 Duo E6400 for your comparison. Keep in mind that most of the games used in that article are CPU bound, which isn't the case for all games. Unfortunately TR decided NOT to include an i3 in their latest inside the second gaming with CPUs article. Shame.

Eh, I think the "AMD Budget" CPUs provide a valid comparison point against the OP's processor. I mean, he has a Pentium Dual Core. I think that almost anything in that article is better than what he has.

[uni-mitation]

Thank you guys for all this great advice and stuff. I am gonna take more time to do my homework, and not regret my purchase. Good info given, it means alot to me for the help.

I know my hardware is ancient by today's standards but I need to do incremental upgrades that will net me the most bang for the buck. So, if you guys got any suggestions in what area will it net me the most performance to game (not looking for anything else, I don't render or do any other kind of professional work, etc), please feel free to fire away.

Will update as things progress.

[Chrispy_]

The 650 (non-ti) is fine for low resolutions like 1366x768. Like others have said, I think the processor/PCI 1.0 will be a bigger problem.
At least the 1.0x PCI-e slot will not be too much of a problem, since a GTX680 is only held back about 30% compared to PCI-e 3.0 x16 when running in a legacy slot. I would expect a less powerful card to suffer less from the reduced bandwidth.

If you do upgrade, take a good look at the new Ivy Bridge dual-core Pentiums. You WILL see a benefit from having hyperthreading in an i3, but for the money the G2010, G2020 and G2120 are amazing value for money and probably approaching double the IPC of something like an E8400.

[DPete27]

This article shows the relative performance characteristics of the Sandy Bridge G630 and G860 CPUs. Like Chrispy and Morphine said, a Sandy or Ivy Pentium would run circles around your current CPU (and many mid-high end AMD CPUs) even if they're not as good as Intel i5s. It's certainly a good way to get into the new platform without breaking the bank.

[uni-mitation]

Guys, I am torn. After digesting some of the info given by you guys I am leaning now more to a GTX 650ti. It is a hard decision, and I am not yet at that point that I have made up my mind. In one hand the practical side of me is saying a GTX 650 is all you will ever need, but then my other devilish side is telling me "get the GTX 650ti and you will be more future-proof".

Right now my system is ancient, that is obvious. Later on I might jump on a Ivy Bridge Pentium since to me is what makes more bang for buck in terms of gaming. At least get a DVI monitor on the cheap.

So, guys, what do you think? GTX 650 or GTX 650ti? (forgive my rambling)

[My Johnson]

GTX650 seems like a solid choice to me.

[Chrispy_]

I second the GTX 650 (non-Ti)

If you were gaming at 1920x1080 with a faster processor, I'd have no hesitation in recommending the 650Ti. However, for that screen resolution, you could probably get away with something even cheaper, like an HD7750. As it is, you're held back by the PCI-e 1.0 slot, older DDR2 on a slow 1066FSB which has less than 1/3rd of the bandwidth of modern platforms. That's ignoring the fact that those feature-crippled Pentiums with smaller caches really struggled to prove themselves against much slower Core2 chips of the day (heck, the E6700 is almost seven years old now, and your Pentium can't even pretend it's that good).

Save your money by getting the cheaper 650 and putting the savings aside to upgrade your processor platform as soon as you can. You need a socket 1155 system for serious gaming, really; Older (or AMD) platforms are fine for casual gaming but if you go by TR's metric, Sandy or Ivy bridge really are in a completely different league. There's no point spending big bucks on a graphics card if you're not underpinning it with decent hardware, because those graphics card bucks are being held back by the supporting CPU/RAM.

Graphics cards come and go, but you'll use a processor for several years.

[NovusBogus]

I have a 650 Ti and I like it, but for that resolution it's going to be overkill and a regular 650 should work just fine provided the motherboard supports it. Note that the 6xx series is more power-efficient than previous generations so even if you pay slightly more for the same performance, you'll make up for it over time in lower electric bills. So really the question you need to be asking is will you be getting a bigger monitor in the next 18 months or so, if the answer is yes I'd say go with the Ti otherwise save your money and get something much better when the time eventually comes.

That CPU is definitely not new but it ought to get the job done, especially on older games like the ones you listed. That CPU didn't even exist yet when E:TW hit store shelves. You could potentially get a decent bit of boost from something like an E8500 but that's about as good as it gets for the LGA775 platform. A Sandy/Ivy Bridge i3 will smoke it, sure, but my money's on you not noticing much of a difference on day to day, non-enthusiast use. About six months ago I upgraded from an Athlon 7750BE (comparable to what you've got) to an i5 2500k, my system's a little perkier now but there wasn't an omagawd moment when firing it up or anything. I mostly play classic games, X3:TC and SupCom are about the most resource-heavy games I've got. And Dwarf Fortress, but it's in a class all its own when it comes to processing.

[vargis14]

Save your money and get a regular non TI 650....I really think your current cpu will bottle neck even that new GPU.
Now if you get on ebay and get a used q6600 2.4ghz quad core cpu for around 50$ I would go for the 650 ti version.

Here is ebay listings for q6600 quad core cpus... i hear most will run at 3.0 ghz easy http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40

I am sure they Guys here in the forums could point you to a decent stepping Q6600 that will overclock well, But i do know even ar 2.4ghz it will be less of a bottleneck then what you have and for around 50$ I think it will give the performance boost you need until you can get a Ivy bridge or haswell Rig in 3-6 months

[DPete27]

I think you'd be better off spending your ~$100 on an AMD 7770 over a GTX 650 if that's the performance/price category you're going to shoot for. (Comparison here) Be careful how much you're spending though. GTX 650 TI's start around $130 after MIR and will offer overall better performance than both the 650 and 7770.

PS. I like vargis' suggestion about a used Q6600

[Chrispy_]

Ooooh, ebay! Definitely worth a look

Yeah, I dropped in a hand-me-down Q9550 to replace the struggling E8400 I had in my HTPC for 1080p gaming and the jump from two threads to four was noticable. Many games use two threads or fewer, but it means that Windows doesn't interrupt the game engine so much to run background tasks and services like you get on a dual-core. Much smoother experience in general....

If you can get a Q6600 cheap, check both your motherboard and RAM can run at 1066FSB. You'll still be bottlenecking the 650Ti but at least it won't be such a waste and the 650Ti will likely be more useful when you do eventually upgrade to Ivy/Haswell.

[uni-mitation]

A little update.

I already know which card i am going to buy. Haven't been unable to do so because of the uncertainty of the last few days. Getting sued, and sending letters to the IRS, and starting school in the summer, I am kind swamped, and can't afford to be too careless. Haven't played any games, and i think i won't be able to for the foreseeable future. It seems quite doom and gloom but it is not. I will have to declare bankruptcy and whatnot, so my little purchase is postponed for now, but i want to take this time to thank all you gerbils for your time. It helped me find what i truly needed to find.