Personal computing discussed

Moderators: renee, Hoser

 
Bensam123
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 990
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 12:19 pm
Contact:

Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:46 pm

Thought you guys would be interested in this, if you haven't witnessed it first hand yet:

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/punkbu ... again.html

Punkbuster is completely offline and people can't play because of it. I've been harping on games for quite awhile for poor AC (BF3 included), but when security theater completely fails it has a funny taste of irony to it.
 
geekl33tgamer
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:46 pm

Oh... I've not been able to stay in BF:3 for more than a minute at most and get disconnected - Is it this??? I was going to go all mad-rage at my ISP for packet loss issues again... :o
Mega Beast - Intel i7 4790K | Gigabyte Z97X-UD3H-BK | 32GB DDR3 | SLI GTX 1070 | Samsung 850 Evo 1TB
Mini Beast - Intel C2E QX9770 | Gigabyte X48T-DQ6 | 16GB DDR3 | KFA2 LP GTX 750Ti | Seagate 2TB SSHD
 
JohnC
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm
Location: NY/NJ/FL

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:56 pm

Well, their sites are up and functioning again... Though there are no announcements about the reasons for downtime... Oh well, maybe game developers will learn something from that and will stop being so "cheap" and would instead start developing their own versions of automatic anti-cheat programs :wink: Valve did it, EA can also easily do that.
Gifter of Nvidia Titans and countless Twitch donation extraordinaire, nothing makes me more happy in life than randomly helping random people
 
Washer
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:00 pm

JohnC wrote:
Well, their sites are up and functioning again... Though there are no announcements about the reasons for downtime... Oh well, maybe game developers will learn something from that and will stop being so "cheap" and would instead start developing their own versions of automatic anti-cheat programs :wink: Valve did it, EA can also easily do that.


No. Absolutely not. You seriously think the likes of EA would update and maintain their anti-cheat software or that'd it be any better? I don't, at all. VAC isn't a shining example. There's numerous cheats available for games that use it. Anti-cheat software only blocks the common public cheats. Anything kept private behind paid walls is going to take extra work. Work I don't trust the vast majority of publishers to put in. I would like to see more third party options pop though, PB sucks and this outage is just another example.
 
JohnC
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm
Location: NY/NJ/FL

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:29 pm

You may dismiss VAC all you want, but I know from a personal experience (both as an "honest" gamer and as a past subscriber to certain site's paid "aiming aid products" :wink: ) it actually works, and works much better than PB. Sure, it will never be "up-to-date" with most recent cheat releases, but no cheat detection software is, just like no antivirus software is capable of detecting 100% of most recent malware.

As for EA's own management of such software - they may actually be able to "pull this off" properly with enough dedication... And if they aren't dedicated enough - they can equally refuse to integrate "superior" 3rd-party cheat detection into all of their products (and will instead stick to PB) even if such option would exist...
Last edited by JohnC on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gifter of Nvidia Titans and countless Twitch donation extraordinaire, nothing makes me more happy in life than randomly helping random people
 
Washer
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:32 pm

Oh cool. You're a cheater. Thanks for letting me know. I guess that does give you more relevant experience in which is better.
 
lilbuddhaman
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 8:23 pm

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:52 pm

Not that PB stopped cheaters in any of the games using it anyways. BF3 being the worst offender. Nov-Jan 2011 was a nonstop hackfest, and died down not because of pb updates, but because of the hackers getting bored.
I am jaded. I am cynical.
 
Sargent Duck
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3220
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:05 pm
Location: In my secret cave that has bats

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:08 pm

Washer wrote:
Oh cool. You're a cheater. Thanks for letting me know. I guess that does give you more relevant experience in which is better.

Keyword was "past".
No matter how bad the new homepage sucks or how bungled the new management is...

To all the original writers/contributors and volunteers, please know that I have nothing but the deepest love for you and the work you've done.
 
JohnC
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm
Location: NY/NJ/FL

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:37 pm

Sargent Duck wrote:
Washer wrote:
Oh cool. You're a cheater. Thanks for letting me know. I guess that does give you more relevant experience in which is better.

Keyword was "past".

Yea, my last "subscription" to Planetside 2's part of "framework" has expired last month (because game is boring even with cheats, especially if not many people are playing during certain times of the day)... For Valve's games - long time ago, was mostly used for self-educational purposes :wink: I prefer to play TF2 "legitimately" since it's always fun to play even against much more skilled players and I rarely seen other cheaters on pub servers I've played at (I have seen more cheaters in PS2 during 2 months of playing than I have seen in TF2 during all my 6 years of playing it).
Gifter of Nvidia Titans and countless Twitch donation extraordinaire, nothing makes me more happy in life than randomly helping random people
 
Bensam123
Gerbil Elite
Topic Author
Posts: 990
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 12:19 pm
Contact:

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:48 pm

PB and VAC are equally as horrible. I don't know what form AC would have to take on for it to actually be feasible.

PB and VAC only work so well because they aren't actually hard coded into the game and they're 'soft' solutions. That's the problem with a 3rd party making AC for a game. Not only do they need access to basically the entire game, but they have to constantly update it with other updates to the game, in addition to cheats. It would be a huge undertaking simply for one contract for one game. Although I agree it'd be great to have one company figure this out and I have some ideas for it, I don't think it'll happen anytime soon. PB has been in the business for more then a decade as a 3rd party solution and it barely works... I mean look at their sorry excuse for a site. Obviously they aren't making much off of this. That could also be because their AC sucks, but I'm unsure.

Either way gamers need to start being more vocal about cracking down on cheaters and stop pretending it's some guy who plays in their moms basement 24/7/365 and somehow became omniscient through a act of god just so they can enjoy a game.
 
Washer
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:10 pm

Clearly JohnC's cheating is in the "past."
 
Ryu Connor
Global Moderator
Posts: 4369
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:35 pm

Righteous indignation over a first world and irrelevant/intangible problem such as cheating in a video game is not needed in this thread or the forum as a whole.
All of my written content here on TR does not represent or reflect the views of my employer or any reasonable human being. All content and actions are my own.
 
Krogoth
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6049
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:54 pm

Never understood why PB, VAC and such get so much traction.

They are just "feel-good" solutions that get easily pwned by crackers. The only way to avoid cheaters is to play on servers with people that you know IRL or be part of gaming communities who are vigilant. Griefers and cheaters typically give up after a few kicks and banning attempts assuming nobody on the server falls for their trolling attempts.

Ryu Connor wrote:
Righteous indignation over a first world and irrelevant/intangible problem such as cheating in a video game is not needed in this thread or the forum as a whole.


Seems that you have an ax to grind over PB and its ilk?
Last edited by Krogoth on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Gigabyte X670 AORUS-ELITE AX, Raphael 7950X, 2x16GiB of G.Skill TRIDENT DDR5-5600, Sapphire RX 6900XT, Seasonic GX-850 and Fractal Define 7 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B
 
Washer
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:00 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:
Righteous indignation over a first world and irrelevant/intangible problem such as cheating in a video game is not needed in this thread or the forum as a whole.


Hilarious post given the context of a site like Tech Report. Do you cheat too?
 
Ryu Connor
Global Moderator
Posts: 4369
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:01 pm

Krogoth wrote:
Seems that you have an ax to grind over PB and its ilk?


I'm heading off some personal attacks and snark I see brewing. The discussion without those things may continue.
All of my written content here on TR does not represent or reflect the views of my employer or any reasonable human being. All content and actions are my own.
 
JohnC
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1924
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm
Location: NY/NJ/FL

Re: Punkbuster Down

Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:29 pm

Krogoth wrote:
Never understood why PB, VAC and such get so much traction.

They are just "feel-good" solutions that get easily pwned by crackers. The only way to avoid cheaters to play on servers with people that you know IRL or be part of gaming communities who are vigilant. Griefers and cheaters typically give up after a few kicks and bans attempts assuming nobody on the server falls for their trolling attempts.



Not sure if serious... Probably not :wink: Anywayz, how do you propose "to play on servers with people that you know IRL or be part of blablabla vigilant" with games like Planetside 2, which only has few official servers hosted by SOE themselves? Or any other MMORPG/MMOFPS game? You can "/report" as much as you want to, BUT if few in-game admins are busy with other tasks, the cheater will continue to play, perhaps logging off before admin will decide to spectate him, then log back in days later, after admin decided to close the "ticket" or become busy again with other tasks (some of my PS2 accounts lasted WEEKS even with BLATANT cheating)... Proper automated anti-cheat solution, as well as proper user registration (for example, require "free 2 play" or "trial" users to submit valid credit card number for verification with each new account created, and ban people based on that data instead of relying on silly nonsense like "IP/MAC address bans") are the MUST-have for any online game (especially where admins can't watch every player 24/7) to successfully combat cheaters.
Gifter of Nvidia Titans and countless Twitch donation extraordinaire, nothing makes me more happy in life than randomly helping random people
 
lilbuddhaman
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 8:23 pm

Re: Punkbuster Down

Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:04 am

I have a problem with people that think cheating in a game is "ok", whether past or present. Once a cheater, always a cheater. They should be ostracized just as a player in any sport would be(whether pro or not). I agree with where you were going about avoiding name calling and killing the discussion, but that is exactly where the official forums end up failing for games like this.

Thousands of players would "name and shame" blatantly obvious hackers, and get temp-bans or mutes; while the hackers would continue on their spree AND troll those people on the forums. Taking a stance of "we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings" caused the legitimate players to suffer even more, both on the forums and in the game itself.

The cheaters end up winning on both fronts, and that sucks.

So ban/infringe me all you want, but JohnC deserves every bit of flak that might come his way, and it should be allowed, I don't see it as a Rule #2 "personal attack", i see it as an attack on his (gaming) behavior, and since this is a gaming forum, yeah.
I am jaded. I am cynical.
 
Ryu Connor
Global Moderator
Posts: 4369
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA
Contact:

Re: Punkbuster Down

Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:44 pm

Unfortunately the topic isn't about him. The OP doesn't say, "JohnC is a cheater," not that said discussion would turn into anything profitable.

I think this discussion has run its course.
All of my written content here on TR does not represent or reflect the views of my employer or any reasonable human being. All content and actions are my own.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
GZIP: On