Personal computing discussed
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GrimDanfango wrote:There are so many ITX cases out now that have two expansion slots, you'd think motherboard manufacturers would have caught on to the added versatility it would give to make motherboards that could have two expansion cards fitted.
DrkSide wrote:GrimDanfango wrote:There are so many ITX cases out now that have two expansion slots, you'd think motherboard manufacturers would have caught on to the added versatility it would give to make motherboards that could have two expansion cards fitted.
The two slots on the case are for a dual height graphics card. I don't know anyone that has done a build without a card that is dual height recently. It seems that there are people either using integrated or dual height cards. What are you needing another expansion slot for?
derFunkenstein wrote:If you want 2 slots on your motherboard, what you want is DTX.
Since not all mITX cases are built for 2 slots, you can't possibly expect that on a motherboard. That kind of defeats the purpose of standards, you know? As DrkSide pointed out, the 2 slots on the cases that have them are for two-tall GPUs, or maybe you could get creative - single-height graphics + a slot bracket that plugs into an empty USB header, to get extra USB ports.
GrimDanfango wrote:
Yeah, I said about Mini-DTX... that *is* the standard for a 2-slot type mITX motherboard.
Wasn't really the focus anyway, I gave up on that build idea in the end.
superjawes wrote:Well I don't think people are ready to get away from tower designs (besides SFF and/or HTPC builds). That means that a case will be one regular-sized ATX board + PSU high, the same ATX board + a 3.5" HDD wide, and PSU thick (plus some extra so nothing is right up against the chassis). Being contrained to that layout means that there's always a chunk of space for 5.25" drives.
So in order to eliminate that space, you have to get away from the tower layout, or at least move things around, which can still be weird since most PSUs are going to have the plug on the same face as the motherboard and video card. This can also result in a thicker case, which seems to counter the desire to decrease overall volume.
Forunately, smaller components seem to be growing more popular (there are several new ITX reviews on this site). That means that you'll see people becoming more comfortable with different layouts, and hopefully we'll see more modest case volumes.
Why can't a case design like that work perfectly well in a tower? Ditch the optical bays, float the thinner 3.5 bays over the motherboard, and reduce the width and depth.
Khali wrote:On a side note, I would like to add to your rant about drive bays with my own about USB ports. Why are they still putting USB 2 ports in cases when USB 3 is better and is backwards compatible with USB 2? Do away with the USB 2 ports totally and move to USB 3 makes more sense to me.
MadManOriginal wrote:5.25" > 3.5", so you can use those 'useless' optical bays for 3.5" hard drives. Don't look at them as optical drive bays, but rather as flexible bays that can be used for HDDs or optical drives or specialty expansion parts. There are inexpensive, non-hot swap drive mounts that will fit 3-in-2 or 4-in-3 3.5"-in-5.25" bays.
As others have said, for mATX and larger form factors there's naturally going to be space left over for 5.25" drive bays. Less width requires compromises of some kind, such as no large coolers, or odd ATX-size PSU mounting. There are some non-tower form factor mATX cases with one or no optical drives, and some media-style ATX cases don't have any either, but they are specialty-type cases imo.
MadManOriginal wrote:I also suspect there's another reason 5.25" bays are still around - the Asian DIY market. They are huge on DIY there, not just in computers but in electronics in general, and with more widespread copyright infringement there optical drives are still used more. External optical drives are much slower than internal and also a bit more expensive. On a personal note, I will be pissed when optical drives really die off because I won't pay for inferior compressed media so ripping my media for personal use is important.
GrimDanfango wrote:Also... VGA ports on laptops... why, whyyyeee?! So fat and chunky, so not-used-by-anyone-for-10-years
MadManOriginal wrote:As for this...Why can't a case design like that work perfectly well in a tower? Ditch the optical bays, float the thinner 3.5 bays over the motherboard, and reduce the width and depth.
Um, so you want a 12-19" tall case (mATX-ATX motherboard) that's what...3" wide? That wouldn't be very stable standing up on end and laying it down you get an HTPC/desktop style case, some of which don't have optical bays! So, unsurprisingly, what you're asking for has already been done.
Waco wrote:GrimDanfango wrote:Also... VGA ports on laptops... why, whyyyeee?! So fat and chunky, so not-used-by-anyone-for-10-years
Try showing up to any meeting where you expect to use a projector without a VGA port on your laptop. I dare you.
GrimDanfango wrote:Waco wrote:GrimDanfango wrote:Also... VGA ports on laptops... why, whyyyeee?! So fat and chunky, so not-used-by-anyone-for-10-years
Try showing up to any meeting where you expect to use a projector without a VGA port on your laptop. I dare you.
Haha, okay, fair play. I hadn't considered projectors.
...they SHOULD all have started using HDMI years ago though
GrimDanfango wrote:MadManOriginal wrote:As for this...Why can't a case design like that work perfectly well in a tower? Ditch the optical bays, float the thinner 3.5 bays over the motherboard, and reduce the width and depth.
Um, so you want a 12-19" tall case (mATX-ATX motherboard) that's what...3" wide? That wouldn't be very stable standing up on end and laying it down you get an HTPC/desktop style case, some of which don't have optical bays! So, unsurprisingly, what you're asking for has already been done.
150mm seems reasonable to me... the width of the ATX PSU standard... 102mm width for the standard hard drive, with 48mm left for the big swathe of most motherboards that, even with RAM installed, tops out at requiring about 30mm height clearance.
Yet almost all towers are 200mm+... and that seems to be dictacted solely by the need to be compatible with the most colossal tower coolers on earth, and optical drive bays.
Again, not suggesting that all cases should adhere to this... I just don't understand why the overwhelming majority have to cater to the largest possible components, leaving a tiny minority of designs that actually make some intelligent use of space.
MadManOriginal wrote:So you say 150mm is reasonable because it's the width of an ATX PSU, but that optical drive bays need to go away because they make cases too wide. I think you should look up the width of optical drives, and then rename your rant to 'about wide cases' rather than 'about optical drive bays'.
MadManOriginal wrote:5.25" > 3.5", so you can use those 'useless' optical bays for 3.5" hard drives. Don't look at them as optical drive bays, but rather as flexible bays that can be used for HDDs or optical drives or specialty expansion parts. There are inexpensive, non-hot swap drive mounts that will fit 3-in-2 or 4-in-3 3.5"-in-5.25" bays.
MadManOriginal wrote:Well then, you spin me right round baby right round...back to something I already said:MadManOriginal wrote:5.25" > 3.5", so you can use those 'useless' optical bays for 3.5" hard drives. Don't look at them as optical drive bays, but rather as flexible bays that can be used for HDDs or optical drives or specialty expansion parts. There are inexpensive, non-hot swap drive mounts that will fit 3-in-2 or 4-in-3 3.5"-in-5.25" bays.
If you are unable to see 5.25" bays as just another area to use inside a case rather than having to be for optical drives, that's your problem.
A funny thing happens when designing a generally rectangular enclosure for standard components that are generally rectangular - you end up with a similar overall volume, just arranged differently. The way to reduce volume in a meaningful way is to reduce the dimensions of the largest components, for computers that is the motherboard for anything above IXT. (Even ITX motherboards have larger dimensions than most other parts though, just not by much.) Using that case you pictured and praised as an example: it might look like great and efficient use of space but guess what...it's 18.2" deep. There's nothing special about a case with that depth.
JustAnEngineer wrote:How about the Silverstone SG09?