Personal computing discussed
just brew it! wrote:PS3 actually used LibGCM, a low-level graphics library created by Sony. I do believe it is loosely or perhaps in part based on OpenGL though, at least in spirit anyway. (๑・ω-)~♥”The PS3 was OpenGL-based as well, and it didn't seem to do much to "popularize OpenGL in a big way".
auxy wrote:just brew it! wrote:PS3 actually used LibGCM, a low-level graphics library created by Sony. I do believe it is loosely or perhaps in part based on OpenGL though, at least in spirit anyway. (๑・ω-)~♥”The PS3 was OpenGL-based as well, and it didn't seem to do much to "popularize OpenGL in a big way".
auxy wrote:The irony here is that the PS4 is using an AMD GPU and probably some type of OpenGL or OGL-derived API, and yet AMD has never been able to produce a proper working OpenGL driver on Windows. Ha-haaa.... ┐( ̄ヮ ̄)┌
I realize that the quality of their Windows drivers has very little to do with the PS4, but the irony slapped me in the face.
GrimDanfango wrote:Is it? Wasn't it just last year that AMD flubbed the RAGE launch so horribly? (edit: it was late 2011.) What about Second Life and City of Heroes, games which languished for years (and in the case of SL, still do), barely working at all on Radeons because of the rubbish OpenGL ICD? What about Unigine benchmarks, which run more or less the same on Geforce cards in DX9 or OpenGL mode, but lose half the performance or more in OpenGL on Radeons?It's a very old irony. Their OpenGL drivers have been pretty solid for a long time now. Maybe not quite up to nVidia's level of robustness, but I've had no problems using Radeon cards for a whole swathe of visual effects packages - and that's traditionally where the OpenGL issues manifest most spectacularly.
auxy wrote:GrimDanfango wrote:Is it? Wasn't it just last year that AMD flubbed the RAGE launch so horribly? (edit: it was late 2011.) What about Second Life and City of Heroes, games which languished for years (and in the case of SL, still do), barely working at all on Radeons because of the rubbish OpenGL ICD? What about Unigine benchmarks, which run more or less the same on Geforce cards in DX9 or OpenGL mode, but lose half the performance or more in OpenGL on Radeons?It's a very old irony. Their OpenGL drivers have been pretty solid for a long time now. Maybe not quite up to nVidia's level of robustness, but I've had no problems using Radeon cards for a whole swathe of visual effects packages - and that's traditionally where the OpenGL issues manifest most spectacularly.
Whatever. ┐(‘~`;)┌
GrimDanfango wrote:Well, it isn't, but this is offtopic for this thread. '`,、('∀`) '`,、 PM me if you want to discuss this further.So, I stand by my statement, OpenGL is solid on Radeons, and has been for a long time, as a general rule. It may not be exceptional, it may not quite keep pace with nVidia, but it is solid.
WhatMeWorry wrote:Does anyone think the PS4 will help popularize OpenGL in a big way? I take it Sony won't (or can't) use DirectX. Or does Sony roll their own graphics software? Not sure what PS3 uses. If you're going to go with an APU from AMD, you would pick OpenGL, right?
Airmantharp wrote:This dood is da troof. ☜(゚ヮ゚☜)Add to that that on the desktop, if you're using OpenGL for games and your last name isn't Carmack, you're doing it wrong.
auxy wrote:GrimDanfango wrote:Is it? Wasn't it just last year that AMD flubbed the RAGE launch so horribly? (edit: it was late 2011.) What about Second Life and City of Heroes, games which languished for years (and in the case of SL, still do), barely working at all on Radeons because of the rubbish OpenGL ICD? What about Unigine benchmarks, which run more or less the same on Geforce cards in DX9 or OpenGL mode, but lose half the performance or more in OpenGL on Radeons?It's a very old irony. Their OpenGL drivers have been pretty solid for a long time now. Maybe not quite up to nVidia's level of robustness, but I've had no problems using Radeon cards for a whole swathe of visual effects packages - and that's traditionally where the OpenGL issues manifest most spectacularly.
Whatever. ┐(‘~`;)┌
cwj717 wrote:Oh? It does seem GCN has a better OpenGL driver for whatever reason (strange, because they should use the same ICD...)Reading this post made me curious so I ran unigine heaven on my radeon 7970 in D3D and OpenGL, it was 17% faster in D3D. I did the same for unigine valley and it was 28% faster in D3D. They both ran just as well under linux compared to windows (in OpenGL). Just thought I would share.
GrimDanfango wrote:I see your logic here, but it's fallacious. The idea that "simpler to code for" = "using OpenGL" is just not accurate -- it goes the other way, for sure ("using OpenGL" => "simpler to code for"), but not vice versa. Sony could even mandate that developers use LibGCM or something equally asinine, or developers may simply prefer to do so to get the maximum performance. Personally, I doubt many top-end games will use OpenGL on the PS3 as those games generally won't be using OpenGL on the PC, so, if you have to re-code the renderer anyway, there's no reason not to do so as efficiently as possible. Since most games -- especially most multiplatform games -- will be using a pre-packaged middleware engine anyway (e.g. Unreal, Cryengine, etc), which means the optimization only has to be done "once" -- barring game-specific optimizations or renderer hacks -- I find it very likely that the graphics code will be as low-level as possible.The PS3 actually does have OpenGL|ES as an option, but apparently very few developers use it, as LibGCM is lower-level and they can squeeze more out of the GPU with it. From what I've read, it seems LibGCM is purely used for that reason on the PS3, and reports seem to suggest the PS4 is a lot simpler to code for... I presume being simple to code for would preclude having to directly address the GPU through a low-level library, so I reckon they're probably going the OpenGL route.
auxy wrote:cwj717 wrote:Oh? It does seem GCN has a better OpenGL driver for whatever reason (strange, because they should use the same ICD...)Reading this post made me curious so I ran unigine heaven on my radeon 7970 in D3D and OpenGL, it was 17% faster in D3D. I did the same for unigine valley and it was 28% faster in D3D. They both ran just as well under linux compared to windows (in OpenGL). Just thought I would share.
See here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86845#p1156726
cwj717 wrote:If you read further in the thread, someone with a single 7970 gets ~1/2 the frames in OpenGL (which is actually where I derived my remark in the original post you quoted.)It could have been crossfire... or maybe their cpu? I have an I5 2500k @ 4.8GHz. I can give it a try on a radeon 6870 that I have lying around.
auxy wrote:cwj717 wrote:If you read further in the thread, someone with a single 7970 gets ~1/2 the frames in OpenGL (which is actually where I derived my remark in the original post you quoted.)It could have been crossfire... or maybe their cpu? I have an I5 2500k @ 4.8GHz. I can give it a try on a radeon 6870 that I have lying around.
cwj717 wrote:Well, specifically I was referring to the difference in the two.Ok, I figured you were talking about the 6970 result because you said "It does seem GCN has a better OpenGL driver"
Edit: Link to my results http://www.filedropper.com/unigine
auxy wrote:cwj717 wrote:Well, specifically I was referring to the difference in the two.Ok, I figured you were talking about the 6970 result because you said "It does seem GCN has a better OpenGL driver"
Edit: Link to my results http://www.filedropper.com/unigine
I'll have a look when I get home; can't open filedropper from work internet.
auxy wrote:The irony is that I'm actually posting from my PHONE, which doesn't go through the work internet. Herp.I'll have a look when I get home; can't open filedropper from work internet.
JohnC wrote:Looks kinda low for a Tahiti! ... although I suppose the other guy (cynan?) had his GPU overclocked 2DMAXX!!You can look at his results here: (images)
wintermane666 wrote:The fact of the matter is the consoles will have little impact on pc games other then the obvious ram usage multithreding usage and such. The use of opengl on the console wont effect the fact its most likely almost all the pc versions will use direct x.