Personal computing discussed
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ChronoReverse wrote:You know, recommending surge protectors that cost more than consumer class UPS's isn't going to fly when he was using and was happy with a Belkin before it started to whine.
chuckula wrote:ChronoReverse wrote:You know, recommending surge protectors that cost more than consumer class UPS's isn't going to fly when he was using and was happy with a Belkin before it started to whine.
It might cost more up front, but having real surge protection can save you a whole lot more than the outlay for the surge protector (I'm using the lower-end one which is $139 and $159 for a higher-end model that can handle most any PC + extra office equipment). The surge protector lasts a long time (much longer than the battery life span of your UPS), so it is not an investment you need to make often.
I have been sitting in my home office when I witnessed a line-pole transformer blowout in my back yard that sounded like an explosion followed by an immediate power loss... but my equipment didn't have a single hiccup and I was able to shut down my PC, stereo, and other equipment safely. These things aren't cheap, but if you have equipment that is worth protecting, they are actually a bargain.
chuckula wrote:The surge protection that is built into consumer grade UPS devices (read: anything under $1000 and practically anything you'll get from Newegg) is not very good.
chuckula wrote:I have been sitting in my home office when I witnessed a line-pole transformer blowout in my back yard that sounded like an explosion followed by an immediate power loss... but my equipment didn't have a single hiccup and I was able to shut down my PC, stereo, and other equipment safely.
chuckula wrote:I have been sitting in my home office when I witnessed a line-pole transformer blowout in my back yard that sounded like an explosion followed by an immediate power loss... but my equipment didn't have a single hiccup and I was able to shut down my PC, stereo, and other equipment safely.
Power loss and you had enough time to casually turn everything off without a "hiccup"? You must have some kind of super-capacitor in that surge protector ...or most likely the "magic"
chuckula wrote:Not really... I just followed my own advice from my original post. The surge protector goes into the wall, then the UPS goes into the surge protector. The surge protector did its job, and the UPS did its job, and everything ended up fine. I never said that you *shouldn't* buy a UPS... I just said that you shouldn't rely on the UPS to do a job that it is not well-equipped to do....
JohnC wrote:It's not? According to whom? I've seen inexpensive UPS units properly protecting the connected equipment after a close lightning strike (the equipment that was not protected was permanently damaged in same house). Yes, the UPS was permanently damaged too, but it did its intended job perfectly.
just brew it! wrote:JohnC wrote:It's not? According to whom? I've seen inexpensive UPS units properly protecting the connected equipment after a close lightning strike (the equipment that was not protected was permanently damaged in same house). Yes, the UPS was permanently damaged too, but it did its intended job perfectly.
The point is that a high-end surge suppressor will live to fight another day instead of frying itself.
The main concern with MOV-based surge suppressors is latent failures due to prior surges that cause wear and tear on the MOVs, but don't completely fry them to the point where the unit is obviously damaged. You may be running with degraded protection without realizing it.
anotherengineer wrote:Update, ordered a Tripp Lite IsoBar8Ultra
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/mo ... odelID=111
http://www.amazon.ca/Tripp-Lite-ISOBAR8 ... B0000511U7
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G ... parts2.jpg
Nice they show the internals, be nice if more surge-bars showed that.
southrncomfortjm wrote:What's the main difference between one of these models (I like the 4 outlet one) and one of the more expensive models, like the Zero Surge and Brick Walls?
ludi wrote:southrncomfortjm wrote:What's the main difference between one of these models (I like the 4 outlet one) and one of the more expensive models, like the Zero Surge and Brick Walls?
Per company product literature and some disassembly pics and schematics I can find on the web, the main difference is that the more expensive models are using a gigantic (and therefore expensive) wound inductor with common-mode line and neutral, and then adding very large snubber networks (typically a high-voltage, low-uF capacitor and a resistor in series) on either side. Most surge events behave, in principle, as a high-frequency impulse wave, and can be filtered in a similar manner. But surges have a lower frequency, and higher energy levels, than typical RFI noise. So, the filter design is similar to an ordinary RFI noise filter, but enlarged to the point where it will block and shunt surge impulses.
Some of the higher-end models also seem to include low-impedance resistors and SCRs with high-speed event detectors on their gates to arrest any surge events that get through the filter stage. When the SCR is fired, it briefly shunts current from line to neutral through the resistor, dissipating the excess surge energy through the resistor rather than the load device(s). These components perform the same function as a MOV but with higher cost and complexity, albeit no self-consumable parts.
ludi wrote:... These components perform the same function as a MOV but with higher cost and complexity, albeit no self-consumable parts.
southrncomfortjm wrote:What then, is the net effect of spending $40 for the tripplite v. $140 for a Zero surge? Far inferior protection? Or just a lower level of still pretty good protection?
just brew it! wrote:ludi wrote:... These components perform the same function as a MOV but with higher cost and complexity, albeit no self-consumable parts.
That's pretty much the key right there. The more expensive units are designed to continue working after absorbing a surge instead of sacrificing themselves.southrncomfortjm wrote:What then, is the net effect of spending $40 for the tripplite v. $140 for a Zero surge? Far inferior protection? Or just a lower level of still pretty good protection?
The Tripp Lite will need to be replaced periodically if you want to ensure continued protection, and you never really *know* what sort of condition the MOVs are in since you don't know how many surges (or how big of surges) they've already had to deal with. The Zero Surge should pretty much be "fire and forget".
That said, for home use I'd be inclined to go with something like the Tripp Lite, with a mid-range consumer grade UPS downstream of it. This is in fact exactly what I'm using for power protection on my file server.
just brew it! wrote:southrncomfortjm wrote:What then, is the net effect of spending $40 for the tripplite v. $140 for a Zero surge? Far inferior protection? Or just a lower level of still pretty good protection?
The Tripp Lite will need to be replaced periodically if you want to ensure continued protection, and you never really *know* what sort of condition the MOVs are in since you don't know how many surges (or how big of surges) they've already had to deal with. The Zero Surge should pretty much be "fire and forget"
southrncomfortjm wrote:just brew it! wrote:ludi wrote:... These components perform the same function as a MOV but with higher cost and complexity, albeit no self-consumable parts.
That's pretty much the key right there. The more expensive units are designed to continue working after absorbing a surge instead of sacrificing themselves.southrncomfortjm wrote:What then, is the net effect of spending $40 for the tripplite v. $140 for a Zero surge? Far inferior protection? Or just a lower level of still pretty good protection?
The Tripp Lite will need to be replaced periodically if you want to ensure continued protection, and you never really *know* what sort of condition the MOVs are in since you don't know how many surges (or how big of surges) they've already had to deal with. The Zero Surge should pretty much be "fire and forget".
That said, for home use I'd be inclined to go with something like the Tripp Lite, with a mid-range consumer grade UPS downstream of it. This is in fact exactly what I'm using for power protection on my file server.
Great, so it will provide a good level of protection before it wears out. Problem is, I wouldn't know when its wearing or worn out. So, maybe after a few bad storms its time to get a new one?
JohnC wrote:You worry way too much about these things If the Isobar can no longer protect your stuff - the green LED indicator marked "Protection Present" will not be lit anymore.