Personal computing discussed
just brew it! wrote:Well, like I said, if you're going to "roll your own" you probably ought to start looking at web development frameworks first. Figure out what your users' needs are, and design the user interface around that. This will allow you to do some mock-up screens to get some early feedback from the potential users regarding the UI design before you get too far along.
The web development frameworks I mentioned previously have decent database integration capabilities to make interfacing to the back-end database easier.
Still not sure why you think starting from scratch will be cheaper/easier than using an Open Source CRM system. Initial outlay to get started with either approach can be close to zero, but roll-your-own will end up taking longer and costing more before you have something useful.
kc77 wrote:We are currently starting a(nother) CRM project utilizing an off the shelf solution. While it's been said before I would like to reiterate that the way to go is with an off-the shelf solution. The problem you'll encounter with rolling your own isn't necessarily the form itself. That's easy. But it's the business processes and communication functions behind it that will take eons to develop and test. Then you have the network and hardware engineering work that has to be done. It's no small thing.
The other issue which isn't thought about until it's too late is that of connectors. For example you've got your Finance Dept which has a database and you have HR which has it's own. They want to talk and share information. If you had built this into a CRM solution to begin with it's trivial to share this information between the different departments..even if their databases were separate. All of them support ODBC from MySQL to Oracle and all of them include to ability to map table schemas quite easily. All of them include import tools too. If you rolled your own. It won't. That's just all there is to that. You won't have time to create a database connector for each type of database you have. In the meantime, for everything the in-house system doesn't do another Access database will be created with horrible table names like: [Names for !he "import".data$e speci@l character_what] which will be a joy to work with.
Then you have document management. I'm sure you'll want this feature. As a result you won't want to put this application on the same server as anything else. Why? Because your document repository will outstrip anything else you have on the server. Ideally you'll want a storage appliance where you can allocate disks on the fly if need be. But if you don't have that, at the minimum it should be by itself on it's own server. It sounds like a waste of resources at first but you'll be glad you did later.
As mentioned before BPM (business process management) is an application all by itself...but it's built into every CRM solution I've encountered. What is BPM? It's the ability to take process workflows of your business and digitize the process and associate it with a form and routing process. In a CRM solution let's say a whole other department wants to be included within a business process you've created with your HR department. With a CRM solution this is trivial to do. It might take you a day or two, a week at most to look the lines of communication of the new department and integrate them into the business process of another. If you rolled your own? Well that's a 3 month project at least with tons of testing associated with it.
CRM solutions make all of this stuff not necessarily cake but they make them manageable without requiring a separate development team. Considering you've got open source solutions which are free and paid solutions which are more mature and cloud-based solutions which relieve the network and system admin work and make use of iPads and Android Tablets as well, it would be crazy to skip over all of that and do something on your own from scratch.
But at the end of the day it's always wise to do what works best for you.
kamikaziechameleon wrote:Question, what happens when you stop subscribing to a CRM solution like dynamics??? Do you loose your data? That is a major concern for the company, between the flacky internet we have because its a ghetto part of Chicago and the general lack of comprehension surrounding data bases in my office its hard to make any case.
axeman wrote:Scrotos wrote:Just so people don't weep for my soul, there was a slow migration from Access to MSSQL/.NET applications. Emphasis on slow, though.
p.s. Access 97 doesn't play well on Win7 x64.
p.p.s. Access 2000 sometimes gets cranky with Office 2010. At least it is fine on Win7 x64!
AFAIK the Access database format didn't really change from 2000, 2002 (XP) and 2003. If you have Access databases, you should try running them with 2003? I'm not an Access guy by any stretch, and that might not solve the problem with getting along with 2010. We're using a virtualized version of 2003 on our Windows 7 desktops, and AFAIK banning further use of MS Access.
nerdrage wrote:And definitely consider using Salesforce.com instead, it's a much better product that is more widely used and therefore you will find it much easier to get support.
just brew it! wrote:On the flip side, it sounds like you're still in denial over the (real) cost of developing a custom solution in-house.
Have you completely ruled out an Open Source solution like SugarCRM?
kamikaziechameleon wrote:EDIT: Their Website does not show a open source version of the CRM, FYI.
SugarCRM licenses Sugar Community Edition under the Affero GNU Public
kamikaziechameleon wrote:Edit: Found the Open source version, supposed to be only for developers. Needs more setup than a regular CRM I think, not sure...
kamikaziechameleon wrote:just brew it! wrote:On the flip side, it sounds like you're still in denial over the (real) cost of developing a custom solution in-house.
Have you completely ruled out an Open Source solution like SugarCRM?
Short answer, I'm still learning and researching. The company is formally set against me but I figure if I can gather enough info on different alternatives I can make their decision for them. I'll look at sugar.
cphite wrote:kamikaziechameleon wrote:just brew it! wrote:On the flip side, it sounds like you're still in denial over the (real) cost of developing a custom solution in-house.
Have you completely ruled out an Open Source solution like SugarCRM?
Short answer, I'm still learning and researching. The company is formally set against me but I figure if I can gather enough info on different alternatives I can make their decision for them. I'll look at sugar.
It sounds like the management of your company is either clueless or in a grave state of denial.
If I am understanding your situation correctly... you work at a small company without any true IT staff to speak of, save for one sales rep (you) who happens to have IT experience; but little to no experience in the area of CRM. And they want you to build a CRM from scratch.
That's crazy.
kamikaziechameleon wrote:Yeah, I know. I'm young, and eager, the average age in here is 60. Honestly my opinion is find a solution for as little money as possible that is as hands off as possible that has room to integrate with an accounting solution down the road. Tech decisions in the company are driven by people with little to no tech knowledge or awareness. This means my task is 2 fold, learn and teach. Its pretty difficult. I appreciate every single response you guys post, it gives me hope I can come to an agreeable outcome.
just brew it! wrote:Initial testing and configuration could probably be done in a VM as well. Just need a workstation with enough extra RAM to handle a VM instance. There's an Open Source version of Oracle VirtualBox in most major Linux distros' repositories, or you can download it directly from virtualbox.org.
cphite wrote:kamikaziechameleon wrote:Yeah, I know. I'm young, and eager, the average age in here is 60. Honestly my opinion is find a solution for as little money as possible that is as hands off as possible that has room to integrate with an accounting solution down the road. Tech decisions in the company are driven by people with little to no tech knowledge or awareness. This means my task is 2 fold, learn and teach. Its pretty difficult. I appreciate every single response you guys post, it gives me hope I can come to an agreeable outcome.
Yeah, I've been there... I think a lot of folks here have too. The thing is, there is a point where for the sake of your company and yourself you need to take the time to think realistically about what can be done with the resources at hand.
Are you going to be expected to continue as a sales person while working on this thing? Or while you're supporting it once it's done? Are you going to be responsible for the infrastructure - making sure it's up when it needs to be up, that it's properly backed up, that it's properly working, etc? Assuming you're responsible for this stuff; who takes over when you're on vacation? Or when you take a sick day? How much of their actual operations are they planning to make dependent on this system? That is, if the system is down or not working for a day, can they still do business? And if they still do business, how does that get reflected in the system once it's back up again?
If you haven't already, I would strongly urge you to make sure that you have as complete business requirements as possible before anything else. Every process that needs to be covered; and what happens if that process doesn't happen. What kind of reporting is expected to be available? Start with what gets reported now. The point is, make sure you have a clear understanding of everything (as much as is possible) that this thing is supposed to actually do before you even think about designing it, or choosing a pre-existing product.
The next step - just as important - make sure you have a list of people (who are not you) who will be responsible for acceptance testing. For example, if you're doing something that effects an accounting process, someone with authority in accounting should be the one to certify that yes, the results are correct and what was expected.
Please understand, I'm not trying to discourage you in any way. This might turn out to be an amazing opportunity for you, and if you feel like you're up to it then by all mean go for it. But take some time to seriously consider what you're taking on, and how much of your life you're willing to put into getting it done. If you think you'll need help in the form of additional people, even if temporary, ask for it. If you feel like what they're asking for isn't realistic, say that.
kamikaziechameleon wrote:cphite wrote:kamikaziechameleon wrote:Yeah, I know. I'm young, and eager, the average age in here is 60. Honestly my opinion is find a solution for as little money as possible that is as hands off as possible that has room to integrate with an accounting solution down the road. Tech decisions in the company are driven by people with little to no tech knowledge or awareness. This means my task is 2 fold, learn and teach. Its pretty difficult. I appreciate every single response you guys post, it gives me hope I can come to an agreeable outcome.
Yeah, I've been there... I think a lot of folks here have too. The thing is, there is a point where for the sake of your company and yourself you need to take the time to think realistically about what can be done with the resources at hand.
Are you going to be expected to continue as a sales person while working on this thing? Or while you're supporting it once it's done? Are you going to be responsible for the infrastructure - making sure it's up when it needs to be up, that it's properly backed up, that it's properly working, etc? Assuming you're responsible for this stuff; who takes over when you're on vacation? Or when you take a sick day? How much of their actual operations are they planning to make dependent on this system? That is, if the system is down or not working for a day, can they still do business? And if they still do business, how does that get reflected in the system once it's back up again?
If you haven't already, I would strongly urge you to make sure that you have as complete business requirements as possible before anything else. Every process that needs to be covered; and what happens if that process doesn't happen. What kind of reporting is expected to be available? Start with what gets reported now. The point is, make sure you have a clear understanding of everything (as much as is possible) that this thing is supposed to actually do before you even think about designing it, or choosing a pre-existing product.
The next step - just as important - make sure you have a list of people (who are not you) who will be responsible for acceptance testing. For example, if you're doing something that effects an accounting process, someone with authority in accounting should be the one to certify that yes, the results are correct and what was expected.
Please understand, I'm not trying to discourage you in any way. This might turn out to be an amazing opportunity for you, and if you feel like you're up to it then by all mean go for it. But take some time to seriously consider what you're taking on, and how much of your life you're willing to put into getting it done. If you think you'll need help in the form of additional people, even if temporary, ask for it. If you feel like what they're asking for isn't realistic, say that.
That's what I'm trying to do. Its just hard because getting out of the office to meet with reps for different companies takes time and they aren't super keen on that.
just brew it! wrote:Yup. It really sounds like the company is stuck in the IT Stone Age, and isn't willing to spend anywhere near what it will take in terms of money and/or time to do things right. If I was in your shoes, I'd walk away from this project at this point. Tell them that now that you've looked into it, they can't get what they need for what they are willing to invest.
I hope you haven't put yourself in a position where shutting this down puts your job at risk. (Sounds like things haven't gotten anywhere near that far yet, so it should be OK?)