Playstation 4: We want to be facebook.
Xbox One: We want to be television.
PC: We like who we are. (without metro crap)
Personal computing discussed
Playstation 4: We want to be facebook.
Xbox One: We want to be television.
PC: We like who we are. (without metro crap)
Savyg wrote:Considering they are providing 300,000 cloud processing servers, and even with dx11 and proper 64 bit ports PCs have much weaker draw calls than consoles, no, it isn't ignorant at all.
auxy wrote:No, sorry; if you actually knew what the actual disadvantage of Direct3D's overhead was -- and as the article you quoted even says, it's actually not even that much if the developer properly utilizes DirectX 11; and the limit is really the CPU anyway -- you wouldn't be spouting this garbage. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Savyg wrote:But you do realize thatAs the article I quoted says, you *might* get 5-6000 out of the PC instead of 10-20000 on the old consoles. And that's assuming games even use DX11 in the first place, which the PC gaming market has been hellishly slow to adopt.
Savyg wrote:The PC already has a "bare metal" renderer, if you want to go that route -- you can write very close to the metal using OpenGL. That's how RAGE runs better than, well, basically everything else. (60fps 1080p with 8k textures on Trinity? Come on. I ran it in 1080p with 4x MSAA at 60fps solid -- which means 60fps average -- on a single GTX460.)As to 'bare metal' it will have a custom renderer much closer to 'bare metal' than the PC will ever have.
Savyg wrote:That's still not -- that has nothing to do with cloud processing! `,、('∀`) '`,、As to cloud processing, I disagree with you but I can't argue the point until I actually have examples in the marketplace. Though Dragon's Dogma had a pretty cool system to go beyond the normal constraints of console games.
auxy wrote:But you do realize that
- all newer games coming out are DX11
- that article is from 2011, and
- geometry batch calls do not translate linearly to performance? ('∀`) They may not even have anything to do with it at all, depending on your game.
The PC already has a "bare metal" renderer, if you want to go that route -- you can write very close to the metal using OpenGL. That's how RAGE runs better than, well, basically everything else. (60fps 1080p with 8k textures on Trinity? Come on. I ran it in 1080p with 4x MSAA at 60fps solid -- which means 60fps average -- on a single GTX460.)
That's still not -- that has nothing to do with cloud processing! `,、('∀`) '`,、
Savyg wrote:Valve hasn't released anything in ages, Dead Space 3 is a straight console port (and was called so by the developer), Firefall and Defiance are MMOs (and thus should REALLY be using DX11, but, the point is that their development cycle is longer than a regular game), Borderlands 2 is practically a mod for the first game, and FF14 has a DX10 mode. So out of those, you've got ... Fallen Enchantress and arguably the MMOs. Isn't Fallen Enchantress an indie game?Oh really? Defiance, Borderlands 2, Fallen Enchantress and its' semisequel, anything from Valve, Simcity, Dead Space 3, Firefall, Dishonored, FF14...I could go on. DX9 titles are still everywhere. They are going away, but very slowly.
Savyg wrote:Radeon? Heh-heh. Also, there was no "detail textures patch". The first patch changed the way texture memory was allocated and tuned the real-time megatexture optimizer to more aggressively select higher-detail texture maps, but they didn't add detail textures or anything. On graphics cards with proper OpenGL drivers you could do this pre-patch yourself using a config file.Much as I liked Rage it ran and occasionally looked like **** on my box, moreso once they added the detail textures patch to clean up the ugly.
Savyg wrote:By that logic, every MMORPG is a "cloud" game. Is that what we're calling "cloud" now? I guess PC games have been "cloud" games a long time!Considering it used the cloud to keep the state of each of those characters synced among different clients and share those characters with other gamers, I disagree on that point.
JohnC wrote:Of course MS will simply ignore such silly results and won't be making any significant changes to its various restrictions and requirements since they always know what's best for the customer better than the customer him/herself :wink:
auxy wrote:Valve hasn't released anything in ages, Dead Space 3 is a straight console port (and was called so by the developer), Firefall and Defiance are MMOs (and thus should REALLY be using DX11, but, the point is that their development cycle is longer than a regular game), Borderlands 2 is practically a mod for the first game, and FF14 has a DX10 mode. So out of those, you've got ... Fallen Enchantress and arguably the MMOs. Isn't Fallen Enchantress an indie game?
Radeon? Heh-heh. Also, there was no "detail textures patch". The first patch changed the way texture memory was allocated and tuned the real-time megatexture optimizer to more aggressively select higher-detail texture maps, but they didn't add detail textures or anything. On graphics cards with proper OpenGL drivers you could do this pre-patch yourself using a config file.
By that logic, every MMORPG is a "cloud" game. Is that what we're calling "cloud" now? I guess PC games have been "cloud" games a long time!
Savyg wrote:The point is, some of them are nothing that would get DX11, some of them are not very current, and some of them, well, are recent games that are on DX9 for a reason; in other words, all of your serious games (i.e. stuff that the developer isn't trying to run on Intel graphics) coming out right now are on DX11. Yeah, indie and casual titles that need as wide an audience as possible (and don't *need* DX11-class hardware power), MMOs that have been in development for years, and lazy console ports are still DX9, of course.All of those are current and extremely relevant to this discussion. What do the reasons(/excuses) have to do with it? (I could add Hawken, MWO, and many others most likely.)
Savyg wrote:HAHAHA! DID YOU JUST QUOTE SIMCITY 2013 AS A POSITIVE IN ANY ARGUMENT EVER? HAHAHAA!And yes, MMORPGs are cloud games. But they have to rely on their own servers, which makes them expensive to run and useless in most single player or non MMO multiplayer scenarios. Cloud assisted gaming (such as employed in Dragon's Dogma and Simcity) is far more relevant to what the X1 will be offering devs.
JohnC wrote:In development since 2005, yah. Square-Enix says it's a new graphics engine, although it doesn't LOOK new to me. I actually think what's shown in the benchmark looks -worse- than the original game I played in 2010.FFXIV is an old game (think 2005) already, people (same engine even after overhaul)
auxy wrote:HAHAHA! DID YOU JUST QUOTE SIMCITY 2013 AS A POSITIVE IN ANY ARGUMENT EVER? HAHAHAA!
No seriously, WHAT? So ... your argument is ... Microsoft is providing the servers for MMOs and MMO-alikes. How exactly is that a point in the favor of the console, again? Let's break it down:Yeah, so, how is this a good thing?
- Microsoft gets final say in what content goes into the game
- Microsoft is in charge of maintaining access to the servers
- Microsoft decides when the game isn't popular enough to maintain anymore
Savyg wrote:You like that game? Disgusting!OH MY GOSH I QUOTED A GAME I LIKE AS A GOOD THING STOP THE PRESSES
Savyg wrote:And when Microsoft decides they need your server space for replays of Call of Halo 19 matches, your fun, modestly successful game gets shut down?Because you won't have to be a top tier publisher or an MMO to use and maintain good servers? I kinda thought I covered that already.
danny e. wrote:I think it's all summed up like this:Code: Select allPlaystation 4: We want to be facebook.
Xbox One: We want to be television.
PC: We like who we are. (without metro crap)
auxy wrote:You like that game? Disgusting!
And when Microsoft decides they need your server space for replays of Call of Halo 19 matches, your fun, modestly successful game gets shut down?
I've already experienced the frustration of third-party-run servers first-hand with NCSoft and Perfect World managing some of my favorite games. It's not an advantageous situation. It's not as if Microsoft is a charity, and they've come out pretty strongly this generation AGAINST indie developers and the free-to-play gaming scene. They aren't going to make those servers available to people who can't otherwise afford them. This is all just a ploy to gain control of the games.
travbrad wrote:danny e. wrote:I think it's all summed up like this:Code: Select allPlaystation 4: We want to be facebook.
Xbox One: We want to be television.
PC: We like who we are. (without metro crap)
You forgot Wii U: Will someone please buy this? Hello?
JohnC wrote:Speaking of WiiU:
Savyg wrote:Server hardware is expensive, and you're looking at it backward from the way Microsoft will see it. Here's Microsoft's viewpoint:When Microsoft needs more server space they'll add more servers. (...) But MS makes money to keep those services running by keeping those services available. You think gamers would run right out and by Cloud Assisted Game #33 if they could no longer play #1-10? I think not.
danny e. wrote:I think it's all summed up like this:
Playstation 4: We want to be facebook.
Xbox One: We want to be television.
PC: We like who we are. (without metro crap)
travbrad wrote::lol:
You forgot Wii U: Will someone please buy this? Hello?
JohnC wrote:Hahaha, poor Wii U. That image is hilarious, but it's factually inaccurate; Nintendo is skipping E3 entirely this year! Way to build your brand, Ninty!Speaking of WiiU: (img)
Savyg wrote:Debunked rumor No, it's not. "Always" in quotes because you can only go 24 hours without connecting.
Debunked rumor No, it's not. It was CONFIRMED last I heard. You have any source?
Expected, but still rumor What are you, retarded? They're not going to stop charging for XBL.
Probably true for the OS, not for the games. Though tablets won't be forced at any point That was in reference to the Wii U's tablet controller. Kinect is confirmed required to boot the machine.
True but nobody cares I sure care!
In some pics it looked as big as the original Xbox 360. In some cherry picked ones it looked much larger. It's larger than the original 360; it's closer to the size of the original Xbox. It's actually slightly larger than that, though. Wired has a teardown, they measured it.
I don't know what that means Games are locked on Xbox One to a single Xbox Live account. You have to buy the game on your account to play it, even if it's on the same Xbox.
Prices were announced when now? That was really more of a dig at the Wii U's pricing, although I actually think it's pretty fair.
Duh. Gaming machines having games. Who knew. That last bit was making fun of the fact that NEITHER SYSTEM HAS ANY GAMES.
auxy wrote:Hahaha, poor Wii U. That image is hilarious, but it's factually inaccurate; Nintendo is skipping E3 entirely this year!
auxy wrote:Server hardware is expensive
auxy wrote:No, it's not. "Always" in quotes because you can only go 24 hours without connecting.
No, it's not. It was CONFIRMED last I heard. You have any source?
What are you, retarded? They're not going to stop charging for XBL.
OK, let me clarify this for you: We're not reporting a statement that has already been denied by the company at the heart of it. We do report on rumors and speculation when companies do not debunk them.
My reason for us not writing about it is because we already asked Microsoft about it and they basically said it was completely inaccurate. Why would we report information that has already been debunked? We've written plenty of stuff critical of Microsoft before. Save the conspiracy theories of us not "keeping up with the rest of the media reporting."
Kotaku asked a single Microsoft employee a question, and he gave a hypothetical scenario. They either didn't seek clarification from other Microsoft personnel at the event or their PR team or they didn't receive responses. We did, and the response was that it wasn't true, so we didn't report it.
The ability to trade in and resell games is important to gamers and to Xbox. Xbox One is designed to support the trade in and resale of games. Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete. We will disclose more information in the near future.
JohnC wrote:Oh, huh. That's kind of interesting; didn't hear that.Well, they will still be doing streaming broadcast with new game announcements, so they are only "skipping" the physical presence :wink:
Savyg wrote:There's so much noise in that Neowin thread I can't even tell what they're talking about. Used games?Yes, which is a far cry from 'always on.' And...
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/11537 ... ge__st__15
Savyg wrote:Plenty of consumers are very happy with Xbox Live and the way it doesn't get hacked, releasing all their personal data and going down for months. Xbox Live is virtually always up and works pretty dang well; compared to the competition I've been happy to pay for it in the past.Asking if I'm retarded because I choose not to make assumptions about products that aren't out? Seriously? MS knows consumers are not happy with Xbox Live, whether they choose to do anything about it or not.
Savyg wrote:I know you're trying to take the moral high ground here, but really, it's not my fault or problem if you get offended when I point out that you said something freaking absurd. ( ゚∀゚)☞As to the rest I'm not even bothering. I've already been insulted several times just because I disagree with you, I'll pass on continuing this discussion.
auxy wrote:I know you're trying to take the moral high ground here, but really, it's not my fault or problem if you get offended when I point out that you said something freaking absurd. ( ゚∀゚)☞
Savyg wrote:I'll pass on continuing this discussion.
auxy wrote:What are you, retarded?
Savyg wrote:Yeah, you're being a dick. Which I assume is normal.
JohnC wrote:Hey, I didn't CALL him retarded, I asked if he suffered from a crippling mental disability, the implication being I had previously suspected that only someone severely disabled could come to the conclusion that he did. s(・`ヘ´・;)(Me paging moderators) Hellooo, guys? Anyone here? We need help! Hilfe! Помогите! Personal insults, waaambulance is needed, stat!
Srsly, don't lower yourselves to "personal insults" level. Not cool, people, not cool! :-?
JohnC wrote:I don't know how taking a cut of used games sales is different from "a fee", but ok.Yes, getting back on topic. What do we know about Xbox One so far? (...)
- Used game fee: will probably not happen
JohnC wrote:What else, people?