Personal computing discussed
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JustAnEngineer wrote:Sorry JAE, I respect your opinion, but it's >60Hz or bust for my gaming! (⌒▽⌒)This is 2013. Do not waste your money on any nasty TN LCD monitors. There are plenty of affordable IPS LCD monitors available.
JustAnEngineer wrote:If you want to game on a 120 Hz plasma monitor, that's you're choice. They're big, heavy, power-hungry and short-lived, but the image quality of plasma displays is excellent while they last. I believe that TN LCD monitors are an obsolete technology that deserves to die now that superior IPS LCD technology is just as affordable.
I will caution you to re-read the original post in this thread before you suggest any more TN LCD monitors for our Australian friend.
JustAnEngineer wrote:Plasma displays? Come on, you know what I meant. And the OP? He didn't say anything about IPS or anything...(・_・;)I will caution you to re-read the original post in this thread before you suggest any more TN LCD monitors for our Australian friend.
Chrispy_ wrote:I also have to agree with JAE, TN is a nasty, inferior product that is definitely being obsoleted by IPS and PLS, for good reason; It stil exists only because it's cheap and some people want "screen" as a checkbox feature no matter how horrible - which is a shame when there are better panels than TN for fractionally more money.
Jigar wrote:Couldn't agree more, TN is a complete waste of time. I can't believe i use to argue with you guys 1 year back before shifting to Panasonic TH-L42DT50D.
Jigar wrote:Chrispy_ wrote:I also have to agree with JAE, TN is a nasty, inferior product that is definitely being obsoleted by IPS and PLS, for good reason; It stil exists only because it's cheap and some people want "screen" as a checkbox feature no matter how horrible - which is a shame when there are better panels than TN for fractionally more money.
Couldn't agree more, TN is a complete waste of time. I can't believe i use to argue with you guys 1 year back before shifting to Panasonic TH-L42DT50D.
superjawes wrote:Jigar wrote:Chrispy_ wrote:I also have to agree with JAE, TN is a nasty, inferior product that is definitely being obsoleted by IPS and PLS, for good reason; It stil exists only because it's cheap and some people want "screen" as a checkbox feature no matter how horrible - which is a shame when there are better panels than TN for fractionally more money.
Couldn't agree more, TN is a complete waste of time. I can't believe i use to argue with you guys 1 year back before shifting to Panasonic TH-L42DT50D.
To be clear and not to completely irritate some people, an entry level monitor should be (roughly):
1080p
60Hz
23"
IPS
$160 (USD)
Spending less than that will compromize your experience, and $160 is quite affordable. If you want other features, like 3D support, 120 Hz, or greater than 1080p, we can have a conversation about TN displays, but there's really no need to spend less money and get poorer quality.
Chrispy_ wrote:Only 21.5" but very relevant to this thread is DerFunk's post here:
http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=88169
Chrispy_ wrote:If you read my earlier posts, I make it fairly clear I was recommending such a display irrespective of the proposed system, and even somewaht in satire of the OP's choice of an "MLG" display... well, it's clear to me anyway. ┐(´ー`)┌LOL Auxy, you're off on your 120Hz rant again - this is an APU or IGP system where anything more than about 30FPS at medium details is optimistic. If 60FPS is unlikely in current games, especially at the 1080p resolution the OP was looking at, then a 120Hz screen seems like an inappropriate and unwise recommendation.
Chrispy_ wrote:I don't know why you're telling me this as if I don't know it. I didn't say anything about panel response time, and I already have a robust understanding of the technologies and concepts involved. ( ̄д ̄;)The magic in 120Hz displays is not the response time (it only requires 8ms to get 120Hz), but complex overdrive; A 5ms G2G IPS is more than capable of being driven at 120Hz, and that'd be great if it was readily available and affordable, but right now there's just no demand for it and very limited choice (almost no choice at all, in fact).
Chrispy_ wrote:I also have to agree with JAE, TN is a nasty, inferior product that is definitely being obsoleted by IPS and PLS, for good reason; It stil exists only because it's cheap and some people want "screen" as a checkbox feature no matter how horrible - which is a shame when there are better panels than TN for fractionally more money.
Jigar wrote:Couldn't agree more, TN is a complete waste of time. I can't believe i use to argue with you guys 1 year back before shifting to Panasonic TH-L42DT50D.
Chrispy_ wrote:I'm glad you have your opinion and I'm happy you're eager to have your little elitist circle-jerk nodding at yourselves as if you've said something meaningful; the facts remain:+1.
NovusBogus wrote:Both sides of this misguided TN-IPS religious war are wrong, it is surely obvious to all clear thinking individuals that the superior choice is CRT. And it needs to be 5:4 aspect ratio.
NovusBogus wrote:Both sides of this misguided TN-IPS religious war are wrong, it is surely obvious to all clear thinking individuals that the superior choice is CRT. And it needs to be 5:4 aspect ratio.
NovusBogus wrote:Both sides of this misguided TN-IPS religious war are wrong, it is surely obvious to all clear thinking individuals that the superior choice is CRT. And it needs to be 5:4 aspect ratio.
JustAnEngineer wrote:This is 2013. Do not waste your money on any nasty TN LCD monitors. There are plenty of affordable IPS LCD monitors available.
sjl wrote:CRT? Bah. Bring back the blinking LEDs of the Altair 8800, I say, for the purest of pure interfaces to the system!
AbRASiON wrote:OLED or bust.
Pville_Piper wrote:I don't understand the whole viewing angle thing. But then I only use my rig for gaming.
Chrispy_ wrote:
Now, we know they *can* make 120Hz PLS and IPS panels because they've been doing that for 3D HDTV's for a while now; The main quesiton is "why *aren't* they selling this technology in the PC monitor market?"
Chrispy_ wrote:Pville_Piper wrote:I don't understand the whole viewing angle thing. But then I only use my rig for gaming.
I used to think like that - my attitude was that I only cared about my own experience and not people standing left/above/right of me.
However, when a TN screen reports VERTICAL viewing angles of 160 degrees, that's a rather large lie. Actually a TN screen looks more like this and that completely sucks.
When you get a larger TN screen, say 24" or above, the viewing angle is not always perpendicular - If the top of the screen is perpendicular to your eyes and you are sitting a couple of feet from the screen, the bottom of the screen will be around 30 degrees below your eyes. If you aim the middle of the screen at your eyes you're still experiencing a 15 degree shift up and down from the centre. Certainly, TN quality varies wildly but in a lot of TN screens the "acceptable" viewing angle window is less than 30 degrees - meaning that even sitting as square-on to the screen as possible, colours in part of the image (at the top) will start to darken and even invert, whilst colours in the bottom of the image are already washing out, overbright, and way down on contrast.
For me, it really totally ruined any dark, moody, atmospheric games - hell, it even annoyed me in bright and colourful games because they all display dark scenes at some point.
--
When I wanted a 27" 120Hz display, I was so annoyed with TN vertical viewing angles causing inverted colours that I went to a few stores and picked the one that inverted least. Even then I spent a whole month deciding whether to return it under the 30-day no-quibble return policy because no matter how awesome 120Hz was, I wasn't sure it was worth the hideous image quality issues; With a 27" screen, the vertical viewing angle between the top of the screen, my eyes and the bottom of the screen was even bigger than before!
After about six months I gave up on TN; Even though I was a true 120Hz fan, even though I didn't care about the 6-bit panel limitation and Even though the reduced colour gamut and less vibrant image didn't bother me, the colour inversion did. Games just looked too bad to enjoy, and I would have considered myself one of the most die-hard TN fans I know, being the last of my peers to let go of their CRT because LCD's were smeary and "only 60Hz".
--
It turns out that TN is generally getting slated all over the web. I have never seen a TN review anywhere that didn't at least mention the poor viewing angles and colour reproduction issues - and even those 120Hz panels that did get glowing reviews always mention the caveats.
Now, we know they *can* make 120Hz PLS and IPS panels because they've been doing that for 3D HDTV's for a while now; The main quesiton is "why *aren't* they selling this technology in the PC monitor market?"
My guess is that it all comes down to profit, and the 120Hz gaming market is way, way, waaaaay too niche and unprofitable for anything other than HUGE markups. Charging premium IPS prices for a nastly cheap TN panel is about the only way it can work from an economics standpoint in such a tiny market segment. (That's just my own theory, but I beg anyone to offer one that's more plausible).
NovusBogus wrote:Visual quality is subjective so I would definitely recommend anyone not convinced by either side to go look at some actual displays and decide for themselves.