I just Delidded a 4770K (and lived to tell the tale!)

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I just Delidded a 4770K (and lived to tell the tale!)

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:37 pm

Literally 3 minutes ago. Pics to follow (I took a few but the close-ups are extremely blurry.

Crappy TIM is 100% confirmed on Haswell! I used the vice method if anyone is wondering, and it was pretty easy actually. I never thought I'd be crazy enough to try, but here we are!
The chip did not pop out of the vice and go flying, it just loosened up and then I wiggled it out. As a backup, I had a big ESD bag opened behind the vice to act as a catcher's mit, but it wasn't necessary.

Edit: I'll add the photo links in a post below.

In case anyone is wondering, this is a plain old retail chip ordered from Amazon on Sunday.

One more note: I'd like to give a mad shout out to all those crazy guys who delidded before me, and especially the guys who figured out the vice method.. it was frighteningly easy even for someone as klutzy as me.
In the TR forums, a big shout-out to Auxy who has done this to Ivy Bridge too!

I'll update with more photos as I clean it up. For the first go around, I'm just using a very small amount of AS5 as the new TIM, but I may go for that crazy liquid metal stuff in the future (I don't have any on hand now).


Edit: Cleanup is done. I have posted a few post-cleanup photos in the photo post below. My goal was to remove gobs of glue that could affect the spacing of the IHS on the CPU PCB, so you'll see that the PCB is not spotless but that there aren't obviously globs of dried glue left. The top of the CPU has a mirror shine to it after cleaning. Sorry that the photos are not up to TR quality, but at least they give you an idea of the before & after.

Edit: June 7: I got in a replacement motherboard since the first one died after a short. The delidded 4770K is alive & kicking and I'm doing a memtest run. I have a very basal setup right now with just the CPU + stock cooler + RAM + USB boot stick running memtes86 the Arch installer. After the memory checks out, I'll do the full build with the other goodies over the weekend. I have a couple of not too exciting photos posted below. Note that Memtest is convinced that Intel still hasn't made it to a 22nm process :-)

Edit: June 8: The memory checked out last night and I finished the hardware build. So far so good, the CPU at idle + the NZXT cooler gives almost-ambient temperatures (see my updated flickr feed for more pictures).

Edit: June 13: Thanks for all the recommendations about using Coollaboratory Ultra! I have posted updated screenshots of a higher overclock to 4.7GHz with a worst-case mprime torture test temperature of 82C (which was only hit briefly, and mprime was stable for over 2 hours during the test run). I was hitting over 90C(!) at only 4.6GHz with the old setup, so there are some bit improvements with the new TIM!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97134463@N07/9039248034/
Last edited by chuckula on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:56 am, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:50 pm

I wonder if overclocking will do better with the TIM removed.

Yours is a retail unit right? Looking forward to your results.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:53 pm

Man, you bought a 4770K just to pop the lid? I probably wouldn't do that if I won the lottery! abw would've frowned at what you've done. :O

Or at least I would have bought an i5 instead to save a hundred bucks.

Can someone grab an FX-8350 and open it up, too? It's only $180. :-)
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:54 pm

Pics please!
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:55 pm

ronch wrote:Can someone grab an FX-8350 and open it up, too? It's only $180. :-)


Sure, want me to cut it in half too?
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:57 pm

OK, Pics or it didn't happen right? Here's a few initial ones, I have delidded but I haven't finished the process yet:


EDIT: I've opened up a flickr account just for this crazy project :-P Go check out all the photos here: http://flic.kr/s/aHsjFScMoJ
June 7: Posted picture of memtest benchmarking & the very crude initial setup for testing the RAM + CPU. More excitement to follow.

June 8: The hardware build is complete and the system is running OK. See the updated photos at the bottom. Next step is slapping Linux on this bad-boy... what you thought I'd put on Windows 8? :lol:

June 13: New screenshots showing different phases of the mprime torture test with the CPU @ 4.7 GHz using the Coollaboratory Ultra TIM.
Last edited by chuckula on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:53 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:06 pm

Hmm, let me squeeze my new CPU in a vise and try to pry it apart.

Given your results, still safer than locking down Socket A Athlon XP heatsinks.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:12 pm

Ok, now that you've proven that the top end mainstream Intel chip uses TIM, the next logical step would be to see if Intel is also cheaping out with those $1,000 chips.

Anybody?

Come on, people! It's only a grand! ;-)
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:13 pm

ronch wrote:Ok, now that you've proven that the top end mainstream Intel chip uses TIM, the next logical step would be to see if Intel is also cheaping out with those $1,000 chips.

Anybody?

Come on, people! It's only a grand! ;-)


LMAO... and I thought I was crazy. :-)

I'm kind of torn. I'm a little pissed at Intel cheaping out like this, but at the same time, I get to renew my geek cred card by pulling this off within 1 week of launch.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:21 pm

ronch wrote:Man, you bought a 4770K just to pop the lid? I probably wouldn't do that if I won the lottery! abw would've frowned at what you've done. :O

Or at least I would have bought an i5 instead to save a hundred bucks.

Can someone grab an FX-8350 and open it up, too? It's only $180. :-)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1318995/official-fx-8320-fx-8350-vishera-owners-club/10600
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:23 pm

BIF wrote:
ronch wrote:Can someone grab an FX-8350 and open it up, too? It's only $180. :-)


Sure, want me to cut it in half too?


But then it'll just be a quad core, right?
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:45 pm

Thanks for the link there, biffzinker!

See? AMD WOULD NEVER dream of cheaping out on you even if they had to give their chips away for free!! :-D
Last edited by ronch on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:48 pm

Impressive stuff and fun looking too. :D

One thing, I thought it was established that the Intel TIM wasn't actually that bad, it's just the spacing of the IHS to the die was a little off and that gap is why delidded Ivy's are so much cooler than normal delidded chips... Source: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.ph ... tcount=570
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:10 pm

drfish wrote:Impressive stuff and fun looking too. :D

One thing, I thought it was established that the Intel TIM wasn't actually that bad, it's just the spacing of the IHS to the die was a little off and that gap is why delidded Ivy's are so much cooler than normal delidded chips... Source: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.ph ... tcount=570


FWIW I agree that both could be better. As you saw in my photos, there is definitely dried glue that easily adds an extra millimeter or so in the IHS-die spacing. The TIM didn't look too inspired either (at least it wasn't massively gloppy).
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:05 pm

Please keep us posted on your results, I'm sure everyone's interested in what kind of overclock you get, voltage required, and temperatures.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:03 pm

So you clamp just the heat spreader in the vice, then grab the chip with ? and start twisting?

I assume a solid-based heatsink would work better than a direct-touch model for this usage? Or wouldn't it matter much?
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:11 pm

Good news bad news: The delid did not kill the cpu but something bad may have happened to my mobo :-( I had a successful boot to bios that recognized my cpu, but upon reboot i heard a small pop (not from the cpu) and smelled ozone. Now it won't start. I think the nzxt liquid cooler pump may be to blame but I'll see if I can salvage the situation or if an rma is in order.
4770K @ 4.7 GHz; 32GB DDR3-2133; GTX-770; 512GB 840 Pro (2x); Fractal Define XL-R2; NZXT Kraken-X60
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:17 pm

DPete27 wrote:So you clamp just the heat spreader in the vice, then grab the chip with ? and start twisting?

I assume a solid-based heatsink would work better than a direct-touch model for this usage? Or wouldn't it matter much?



Actually it's simpler than that. You put the IHS (only the the metal ihs edge) the vice with the pcb just above the top plane where it is free to move. Then you place a block of wood (e.g. flat end of a 2x4) flat along one edge of the pcb and give the opposite end of the wood block a firm hammer tap (does not require massive force). The force of the strike loosens the pcb and then you wiggle it free.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:30 pm

chuckula wrote:Actually it's simpler than that. You put the IHS (only the the metal ihs edge) the vice with the pcb just above the top plane where it is free to move. Then you place a block of wood (e.g. flat end of a 2x4) flat along one edge of the pcb and give the opposite end of the wood block a firm hammer tap (does not require massive force). The force of the strike loosens the pcb and then you wiggle it free.

OK, I take it back. That is crazier and more dangerous then a Socket A heatsink install.

Let's indirectly take a hammer to my CPU and hope all of the microscopically-small solder connections to the PCB don't complain at impact. I love this plan [/Venkman] !!!
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:35 pm

Captain Ned wrote: I love this plan [/Venkman] !!!
Don't break the CPU. It would be bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaLZHiJJnE&t=06s

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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:57 am

OK! Looks like I may have killed my mobo when I plugged the pump for my NZXT Kraken into a motherboard header. Some other people have had this issue too... bad news but it basically means the mobo is the issue and my insane delid isn't to blame :-P

A little more on my bootup. I booted successfully the first time, but I had forgotten to plug the pump into the fan header (I had already plugged in the SATA power connector for the pump and the fans are all hooked up separately). I noticed the chip was warming up (the chip never got super-hot, just up to around 60 and I knew the pump wasn't running) and then I realized the fan header needed to be plugged in. I powered down, plugged in the fan header like I was supposed to, and then on the subsequent boot I heard the pop :o . Hopefully I can RMA the board without too much of a headache.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:57 am

I... keep reading the title as something else. Something far less G rated...

The words are spelled too similarly dammit!
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:48 am

I.S.T. wrote:I... keep reading the title as something else. Something far less G rated...

The words are spelled too similarly dammit!


chuckula is just trying to find the answer to the question, "Is it possible to love CPUs too much?"
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:57 am

Once I figure out which of the 4770Ks I have on the way is the worst clocker / hottest chip I'm totally going to do this. My water loop needs a challenge to be put back together.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:23 pm

Props to the OP for taking a risk on this.

Coming from a relatively uninformed stance on this but surely Intel has done their due diligence with regards to applying the right TIM?
For that matter why is TIM even needed inside the package?
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:39 pm

to close the gap (and fill in any air holes) between the die and the lid, silly. It's there for the same reason you put some on the cap before placing the heat sink.

It's been documented that on Ivy Bridge, at least, there's a small (less than 1mm but still that's huge, relatively speaking) gap between the lid and the die. Lots of TIM has to go in there. By de-lidding you remove that gap as much as possible and get better heat transfer. Cooler temps when it comes to overclocking.

Their TIM is better than adequate when it comes to stock speeds. But when it comes to OC'ing you can get higher without the lid.
Last edited by derFunkenstein on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:41 pm

Jon wrote:For that matter why is TIM even needed inside the package?

A thermal bridge between discrete thermal conductors is necessary when you're dealing with the rate of heat production that these chips put out. The heat needs an unimpeded path of travel away from the source. Very small surface imperfections between two thermal conductors are enough to impede heat flow. The thermal interface material is designed to fill in the small gaps so that heat can flow through the entire area of contact.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:19 pm

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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:37 pm

Chuckula, I read an interesting article, and trying my best to find it again, that they tested all forms of different TIMs, and the intel's ranked up with the best. They posted temps and results, then culprit was not the TIM, but the black epoxy gluing the IHS to the board creates too large of a gap between the IHS and core. They removed all the epoxy and put the IHS back on without touching the TIM, then removed the IHS and tested with high quality TIMs between the IHS and core, and saw equal temps to high quailty TIM, and much lower temps than stock.

Granted, solder would be better than any TIM.
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Re: I just Delidded a 4770K!

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:45 pm

ColeLT1 wrote:Chuckula, I read an interesting article, and trying my best to find it again, that they tested all forms of different TIMs, and the intel's ranked up with the best. They posted temps and results, then culprit was not the TIM, but the black epoxy gluing the IHS to the board creates too large of a gap between the IHS and core. They removed all the epoxy and put the IHS back on without touching the TIM, then removed the IHS and tested with high quality TIMs between the IHS and core, and saw equal temps to high quailty TIM, and much lower temps than stock.

Granted, solder would be better than any TIM.



I'd be very interested to give that a read if you locate it! I'm definitely onboard with the theory that it is the glue that introduces a gap between the IHS and the die.. and air gaps are killer no matter what kind of TIM you are using.
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