Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

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Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:01 am

Case - Fractal Define R4 Mid Tower
Motherboard - Asus Z87 PLUS LGA1150 ATX
CPU - Intel Core i7 4770k Haswell 3.5GHz
CPU Cooler - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU Cooler
Thermal Compound - Arctic Silver 5
RAM - Corsair 16 GB Kit (2x 8GB) DDR3 Vengeance C9 1600MHz
PSU - Corsair HX650v2 650W 80 plus Semi-modular
HDD - Western Digital Caviar Black 2 TB 64mb 7200rpm
SSD - Samsung 840 Pro - 256GB
GPU - Asus GeForce GTX780Out of stock :( had to get an eVGA 770 ACX SC instead... :D

Boring bits:
Microsoft Windows 8 64 bit OEM
Microsoft Office Home and Student 2013
Pioneer DVR-229LBK 24x Black OEM SATA DVD Writer

Anything look wrong / things you'd change with this build?

I was considering maybe jumping up to the AX760i PSU... but not really sure I need that much power as I am not going to SLI with this rig. This is replacing my Q9450 rig that started off with a 8800gt, then received a healthy upgrade via a 260GTX and an SSD, Windows 7 and now runs on a 560ti. But I've finally decided that enough is enough and the CPU has to go!

The other thing I was considering was going for a 670 OC'd GPU on the cheap somewhere... though prices are pretty much equivalent to the 760 still at the stores I have to shop at (Oz). Money isn't a problem with this build. But maximising energy efficiency and performance probably is where I'm most interested. So I really like the 780GTX materials and sweet sweet looking cooling. You would have to do a lot to sway me on that one.

Final last consideration was whether to go with the hyper 212 or something a bit fancier like the Noctua U-series CPU coolers... really don't mind either way... probably more concerned about my case then and whether they'll fit or not. Was planning on removing the top HDD cage and installing a 2nd front intake fan, and that was all.
Last edited by yogibbear on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:30 am

Superb build; likely what I'd do for a 1080p gaming build if I had to do it today. There are a lot of obvious ways you could cut the budget down, but since that's not a strict requirement, everything looks great. Two suggestions:

1. If you're going to overclock that CPU (and why wouldn't you), get a Corsair H80i or Antec/whatever equivalent. No need to go batty with huge radiators; the integrated water cooler would be set to Low, in order to keep the system's loaded noise level as low as possible. Other benefits include getting the CPU heat straight out of the case, and you'd just move that rear fan that the Define R4 comes with to the front (that's what I did with my R3), as well as allowing for an overall cleaner working area around the CPU.

2. Don't need to change the PSU unless you just want to (you're making an investment, so if it makes you feel better, etc.). I run two GTX670s and a 2500k at 4.5GHz (along with 16GB of RAM, an SSD, a spinning disk, a bunch of fans) on a 650W unit, and under full Prime95+Furmark load, I've only gotten it up to 550W at the wall, which translates to about 500W delivered. That's still 150W short of the unit's rating, which we know is at least a little conservative on the Seasonic 650W Gold I'm using. I'd expect the newer Corsair you've spec'd to run better.

3. On the personal preference side, I'd get an EVGA GTX780 Superclocked. ASUS is it for motherboards, and EVGA is it for video cards. Again, personal preference. This is the GTX780 with the Titan cooler, to be specific.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:35 am

Those are all excellent components.

I'll second Airmantharp's suggestion to consider a water cooler for your CPU. Be certain that any new cooling fans that you buy are as large as will fit in your mounting location and have PWM speed control.

The SeaSonic Platinum Series 2 power supply that I recently purchased is better than that Corsair unit and it was on sale for less.

Would you consider a Blu-ray reader / DVD writer for $15-$25 more than the cost of the drive that only handles DVDs?

Do you need a sound card, card reader, keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, headphones, microphone, etc.?
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:09 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:Those are all excellent components.

I'll second Airmantharp's suggestion to consider a water cooler for your CPU. Be certain that any new cooling fans that you buy are as large as will fit in your mounting location and have PWM speed control.
Yes, was just purchasing 1 x additional Silent Series 2 140mm fan for the front panel. It fits.
The SeaSonic Platinum Series 2 power supply that I recently purchased is better than that Corsair unit and it was on sale for less.
Can't find anyone that sells Seasonic in Australia. :(
Would you consider a Blu-ray reader / DVD writer for $15-$25 more than the cost of the drive that only handles DVDs?
Yes I would actually.
Do you need a sound card, card reader, keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, headphones, microphone, etc.?
Nope. Already have keyboard, mouse, monitors, speakers, headphones & webcam with mic. Could probably sell me on a new chair before any of those as my chair is showing its age. Also my IKEA desk that everything sits on is pretty crappy...


Responses above in red :D

Also I can't seem to find anyone with an eVGA GTX780 in stock...
Is this eVGA GTX770 SC ACX Cooler 2GB DDR5 any good and worth saving $300 over the 15% performance reduction?
http://www.ple.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?Inv ... goryID=467
I think the answer is no... because the cooler looks crappy compared to the stock GTX780... so I'm sure the Noise/Temps will be worse. But this is the difference between me starting the build tomorrow or on Monday (assuming places get stock on Monday). [Technically I could start the build and just use my existing 560ti until a 780 pops up as in stock]
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:09 am

Okay wait. There are 2 types of eVGA 780 cards... one with the stock cooler, one with the SC ACX cooler...

Custom cooler:
http://www.ple.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?Inv ... goryID=467
Stock cooler:
http://www.ple.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?Inv ... goryID=467

$10 difference... can the ACX cooler be any better? Or is the price premium just for the mild OC?
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:00 pm

yogibbear wrote:Okay wait. There are 2 types of eVGA 780 cards... one with the stock cooler, one with the SC ACX cooler...

Custom cooler:
http://www.ple.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?Inv ... goryID=467
Stock cooler:
http://www.ple.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?Inv ... goryID=467

$10 difference... can the ACX cooler be any better? Or is the price premium just for the mild OC?


The ACX Cooler is significantly better.

I'd also recommend the overclocked Gigabyte version of the GTX 780. It's probably got the best-performing custom stock cooler after the EVGA superclocked linked above (both should be close in real usage). If the EVGA is not available, and If not water cooling, you'll probably be able to reach higher clocks with the Gigabyte than the stock Nvidia cooler on the ASUS.


Edit: Here's a review that shows the Gigabyte 780 cooler to be 1 decibel quieter than the stock Nvidia cooler at load (no discernible difference). BUT, the load temp with the overclocked Gigabyte was 67 deg C, while the stock Nvidia at slightly lower clocks was 80 deg C at load. If you take a bit of care to have proper airflow in your case, then either the EVGA ACX or Gigabyte Windforce would be better options if sticking with air cooling, if they don't cost significantly more.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:36 pm

yogibbear wrote:Okay wait. There are 2 types of eVGA 780 cards... one with the stock cooler, one with the SC ACX cooler...

Custom cooler:
http://www.ple.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?Inv ... goryID=467
Stock cooler:
http://www.ple.com.au/ViewItem.aspx?Inv ... goryID=467

$10 difference... can the ACX cooler be any better? Or is the price premium just for the mild OC?


If you seriously only ever plan on using a single card and not SLI (since you're set up for it outside of the second physical card), the 'open air' style coolers can perform brilliantly. Just know that they need 'turbulent' airflow to work best, so you'll probably want to add say a bottom fan as an additional intake since it bypasses the drives and points straight at the GPUs (in my case, at the GPU blower intake fans), and then add a side fan as exhaust. The bottom fan is probably a given; it's unlikely to add to the noise floor of the enclosure given it's position, it's very easy to install (just pop a 140mm full box in), and the mounting clip is actually an intake filter as well.

It's the side fan that you'll want to experiment with. Adding it means sacrificing the sound deadening block and exposing the GPUs fan noise to open air. For my two blower style cards, I actually have a filter installed and use this as an intake; but I have every position in the case filled with an intake fan and filter, except the rear 120mm mount where my H60 is attached as an exhaust. My theory was to engineer a significant amount of intake pressure using the four 140mm mounts and two 120mm mounts on the R3, then use the two GPUs and H60 as the only exhaust ports. By increasing the intake flow I wind up reducing the work that the blowers have to do on their own, as they're being force-fed airflow from all directions, keeping them at lower RPMs. Except for the buzzy fan on my Superclocked (I have one of those, which has the GTX670 cooler), it's all dead quiet at idle. The GTX670 FTW (which has the above-mentioned GTX680 blower now shared apparently on the GTX770s and some GTX780s) cannot be heard at idle with your ear to it. The whole system sounds like 'air moving' when under duress.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:27 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
If you seriously only ever plan on using a single card and not SLI (since you're set up for it outside of the second physical card), the 'open air' style coolers can perform brilliantly. Just know that they need 'turbulent' airflow to work best, so you'll probably want to add say a bottom fan as an additional intake since it bypasses the drives and points straight at the GPUs


Minor nitpick, but I don't quite agree with this. Any heat sink fan set up works best when the air passing over the heat sink is both turbulent and of high velocity (and to a certain extent, the more air, the better of course). Therefore, 'open air' and 'blower' coolers both work best with turbulent air. But they create this turbulent air with their fans. It's not the air flow in the case that contributes significantly to the turbulence factor. What you want is case circulation that moves enough air across the video card area so that there isn't an opportunity for hot air to build up so that the fan on the GPU is sucking in hot air. This is the same for 'blower' or 'open air' coolers. Because open air coolers tend to be able to move more air than blower style, and because they exhaust the majority of the warm air inside the case, they require more circulation within the case to operate at peak efficiency. As such, open air style coolers will generally always have superior cooling potential (if they are not complete garbage). But if your case has poor air flow, you may not actually see much of an improvement with open air over blower styles. However, your case really has to have bad air circulation and/or be really cramped for a good open air cooler to actually perform worse than a blower style. And yes, as Airman says, if you have multiple GPUs in SLI wedged against each other, then the blower style is better as they intake air at the end of the card.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:39 pm

Apology loaded up front -- wall of text follows. There is no TL;DR.

cynan wrote:Minor nitpick, but I don't quite agree with this. Any heat sink fan set up works best when the air passing over the heat sink is both turbulent and of high velocity (and to a certain extent, the more air, the better of course).


I agree with your disagreement; turbulent air is very important, because there are things that are not always in the direct path of airflow that need cooling. Best examples are the VRMs around the CPU socket if you're using an integrated water-cooler and equally important are the backsides of the GPUs.

While you do address the quantity of airflow, and you may intend to imply this, I did not get a picture from your explanation as to how that airflow should be balanced, so I want to address that again in the context of your post for thread clarity.

With open-air coolers, you want turbulent case airflow- that is, you would attempt to position intake and exhaust points so that they do not directly line up, but are partially blocked by components that are major sources of heat. The best applicable example I can think of is if one were to use a GPU with an open-air cooler and a tower-style or OEM-style cooler for the CPU. The more the air around these coolers gets mixed, the more efficient they are. This setup works well with larger enclosures that put space between the bottom edge of the motherboard and the next major component, such as the power supply, as well as with enclosures that put space between the leading edge of the motherboard (opposite side that slots and port cluster are mounted on) and the front of the case and any drives that may be mounted there. Having a wider case that puts more space between the surface of the motherboard and the left (or opposite) case side panel helps in the same way.

There's more space for air to mix, which means that a larger well-ventilated case will have more cool air available for open-air coolers to exchange heat with. That setup works great, and if planned well, can work great with multiple GPUs equipped with open air coolers as well.

The reason that I've advised against that setup for the OP is that the OP did not choose a large, spacey case. Instead, a compact (though still fully ATX) case was listed. Without second guessing the OP, I base my recommendations for adjustments on the understanding that the OP picked the listed enclosure for it's strengths.

Now, the case that the OP listed replaced the case I currently own in Fractal Design's lineup, which is where my familiarity with the Define R4 originates from. I used to list the R3 in my signature, but removed my PC list because I'm now focused more on photagraphy and TR's forum configuration does not allow for a signature box that is big enough for complete listings of both, though I may try slimming it down to fit just pertinent portions of each later. Dry run and all.

So, meat and potatoes: the R4 listed above is an incredible case; it could only really be improved by significantly increasing it's build cost so that 'better' materials could be used, but it's still the best in it's class in my opinion. The case is set up for highly adjustable airflow and acoustics, and is the perfect base to use for an acoustically restricted power-user system with up to two high-performance GPUs. In that sense, it is the spiritual successor to Antec's excellent P18x/P28x line.

Now, because the R4 features a compact ATX layout, it is best suited for a 'direct flow' cooling arrangement. That means that instead of using a good tower cooler like the above-mentioned Noctua and an open-air GPU, an integrated water-cooler and blower-style GPU would be more optimal. This setup allows you to set the case fans as intakes and to control their speed via the UEFI in relation to the various temperature readouts such as CPU core temperature and GPU core temperature (if the ASUS UEFI let's you set fan speeds against GPU Core). Normal experimentation to determine optimal number of fans, their placement, and their rotation speed curves that's needed for any custom build is straightforward.

The resulting system will require less exhaust airflow beyond what the GPU cooler and CPU integrated water-cooler provide, and with the R4's tight seams, every CFM of intake airflow will increase the efficiency of the primary coolers attached to the CPU and GPU. This means fewer fans, less noise, and less dust overall than a large case/open-air setup, and in a smaller (but not necessarily lighter...) package. That's why I went with the R3 personally, instead of a larger Corsair, Cooler-Master, or the Silverstone Fortress FT-02b that I was really balancing against the R3; the Silverstone is very long. Consequently, I believe that the OP made an excellent choice and will be able to fulfill the stated requirements well by selecting a good IWC like the H100i and a GPU with a good blower like the reference blowers Nvidia shipped on the GTX680 and the very good one on the Titan.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:12 pm

Turbulent flow doesn't really require that you have lots of objects blocking the path of the air. It certainly does not mean that a large case is better, either. It just requires that the Reynolds number is high enough to be outside the laminar region (Re <= 2100 is laminar. Re >= 5000 is fully-turbulent.). What you're more interested in with your hot objects inside the case is probably the Nusselt number, which tells you whether you're getting more heat transfer from flow turbulence or from convection.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:56 pm

Thanks for the engineering perspective; you've given curious minds hours worth of research in just three short sentences :).

As a rebuttal from a non-engineer: can you provide examples to relate current products such as those discussed above to the concepts and variables you listed? It'd keep the thread readable, and it'd probably be better if it came from someone such as yourself with a competent understanding of both the concepts and applications as well as the real-world hardware.

Also, as I'm describing 'turbulent' as a layman (it meant something else as applied in the field of Meteorology, though the root definition is the same), I mean it to describe airflow that is not being directed other than that it is inside the case.


Warning: Wall of Text follows. There is no TL;DR.
________
Analogy for the issues that open-air coolers face when used in tight spaces/installations that lack good airflow follows:

For those that are familiar with the V-22 Osprey (and the variants actually delivered to various nations and services), you might remember a high-profile accident rate involving US Marines; they kept loading them full of troops and then flying them into the ground, killing everyone aboard. Crazy stuff.

The explanation as I remember reading it involved (again, not an engineer) a rapid descent as a helicopter would do, with the propellers/rotors providing lift in the vertical position, where the air being pushed below one of the rotors formed a doughnut-shaped pocket with exhaust air below the lift plane flowing up around the tips of the blades and back through the propeller/rotor blades, nullifying the lift of that side of the aircraft. Since the Marines were trying to simulate 'assault' or 'rescue' landings, they were doing this after approaching the landing zone at high horizontal speed and low altitude, which gave them near-zero room for error correction. When one power-plant became ineffective, the aircraft would flip along it's longitudinal axis in the direction of that power-plant and into a position that was not recoverable.

That doughnut-shaped pocket of air can form around the fans bolted to an open-air cooler as well. They typically have heatsinks that are similar to the ones used on blower-style coolers (vapor chamber, fins aligned with airflow), with fans bolted to them parallel to the card, and airflow oriented into the heatsink fins. And that's good, as long as the exhaust airflow that is typically in all directions parallel to the card is then mixed with air that is part of the enclosure's overall airflow. There is no way aside from careful ducting (SPCR has at least one article I've read on that using a P180) to make sure that the fans on an open-air GPU cooler are always feeding from unused intake airflow and not re-ingesting their own exhaust airflow, but generally this is inconsequential because the any exhaust airflow would be mixed with the enclosure's airflow, and thus be cooler. And the more space you can put around these coolers, and the more enclosure airflow you can direct around them, the better they work. They're a great fit for the giant enclosures some prefer when only one GPU is used, or when two are used but are well spaced with at least three mostly-open slots between the PCB/backside of the lower card and the intake fans of the upper card, and the enclosure has ample space below the intake of the lower card. This would assume GPUs are placed in slots 2 and 7, with slot 1 being the slot adjacent to the port cluster. Most sound cards, WiFi cards, cablecard readers and so forth are likely either short enough or have a sufficiently low profile to allow the GPU coolers room to exchange airflow with the enclosure's.
__________
And Blowers:

With blower-style coolers, the solution is very simple: make sure you have at least one slot of clearance, make sure that airflow within the enclosure feeds the blower's' intakes and displaces the air heated by convection on the card's backs, and make sure that the enclosure has at least as much intake airflow as it does exhaust in all actual use-cases, if not a little more, and hopefully significantly more. Dust intake is minimized when all intake fans are properly filtered and intake airflow always exceeds exhaust airflow.

I refer to this cooling configuration as a 'positive pressure' configuration, and my primary reference was (hold on!) an article that Kyle Bennett of [H]ard|OCP wrote when he decided to shove a GTX260 directly between a pair of GTX480s, with no spacer slots between, into Silverstone's excellent Fortress FT-02. This enclosure uses a rotated and flipped layout with three filtered 180mm fans as intakes, and only a single 120mm mount for exhaust. He found that even when using cards known for being very hot and very loud under load in the worst possible way (intake fan to PCB of next lower GPU), a positive pressure setup could keep the cards relatively cool and thus quiet, because the larger and slower spinning 180mm fans were giving the GPU blowers quite a bit of help.

I took his results and used them to formulate my current build, which centered around the idea of using as many large slow-spinning fans I could fit in my chosen enclosure as filtered intakes, and having the only exhausts be the blowers on the GPUs and the radiator/fan side of the H60.

And it works very well; in hindsight, the adjustments I'd make are the same as those I've mentioned; I would have gotten an ASUS motherboard (I had good reasons for the ASRock, but none of them make up for inferior fan controls), ensured that I got GPUs with the best blowers on the market, and I would have gotten a more efficient CPU cooler; such adjustments would have cost me less than $100 more at the time and I believe now that they would have made a difference. Also, I wouldn't have argued with JAE. He may not know everything, but the dude's on point, and there's a reason this is his forum :).
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:19 pm

Assuming that the air flow rate is the same, a huge case isn't really going to help a cooler like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo, unless you're only interested in achieving a short-term overclock for e-peen bragging. In the short term dynamic situation, a large case takes longer to warm up to equilibrium temperature than a smaller case would. Of course, a large case has more room for fans and openings, so it may very well be able to achieve more air flow at a given noise level.

Incidentally, it doesn't take a Delta +5 fan of outrageousness to achieve acceptable heat transfer with a cooler that has a large surface area and good heatpipes.

Even if you're careful to duct your heat out of the case, it's possible to suck the hot air right back into it through another opening. This used to happen when I had my case under my desk. It would heat up the whole space so that it was pulling in hot air. The steel panels of the case would get to be uncomfortably warm to the touch.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:31 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:Assuming that the air flow rate is the same, a huge case isn't really going to help a cooler like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo, unless you're only interested in achieving a short-term overclock for e-peen bragging. In the short term dynamic situation, a large case takes longer to warm up to equilibrium temperature than a smaller case would. Of course, a large case has more room for fans and openings, so it may very well be able to achieve more air flow at a given noise level.

Even if you're careful to duct your heat out of the case, it's possible to suck the hot air right back into it through another opening. This used to happen when I had my case under my desk. It would heat up the whole space so that it was pulling in hot air.


I agree that it wouldn't help most tower-coolers in the short term, and that you'd want to scale total airflow with case volume, assuming some static ratio of intake/exhaust CF/M per CF of enclosure as a starting point. If you don't, you'd very likely have the tower feeding on it's exhaust enough to make a noticeable difference in core temperature.

But tower coolers are easy; and the better ones have their own mini-ducts, and are large enough that the exhaust side isn't that far away from the closest exhaust fan on the back or the top of the case, depending on orientation.

GPU coolers are not so lucky, obviously, as they can have all kinds of mess around them, unlike the veritable cavern around the CPU socket. They benefit greatly from having lots of space and lots of adjacent airflow, making them excellent for larger enclosures where directed airflow is more difficult, but possibly quieter and possibly cheaper with careful system selection :).

I just want small cases; my R3 isn't much bigger than your P180M, after all, if you're still using it!
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:44 pm

Obviously, I've made the font in my signature too tiny. :lol:


My Haswell Core i7-4770K + Gryphon Z87 + Radeon HD7950 build lives in a Silverstone Temjin TJ08-E case. My brother has my old Antec Mini P180 case with a Sandy Bridge Core i7-2600K + P8Z77-M Pro + Radeon HD7870 in it. My Dad now has my old Antec P182 case with a Deneb Phenom II X4 955 + M5A99FX Pro + Radeon HD6970. I've also provided family members with an Antec P160 (Yorkfield Core2Quad Q9300 + GA-X48-DS4 + Radeon HD5850), Antec Three Hundred Illusion (Deneb Phenom II X3 720 + M3A78-EM + GeForce GTX460) and Antec NSK3480 (Llano A3850 + FM1A75-M Pro + Radeon HD4870).

The cooling is the best in my current build because I've got all three fans (one 180mm case fan and two 120mm CPU fans) running from the motherboard's speed controllers. A few tweaks with Asus' software, and I've got a system that's nearly-silent while browsing the web but still spins the fans up enough to run cool when gaming.
i7-4770K, H70, Gryphon Z87, 16 GiB, R9-290, SSD, 2 HD, Blu-ray, SB ZX, TJ08-E, SS-660XP², 3007WFP+2001FP, RK-9000BR, MX518
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:47 pm

I read it, but I was pretty sure you'd had one at one time :).
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:14 pm

I can tell you that with the R4's two included fans undervolted to 5v using the included fan controller and the single fan on the 212+ being controlled by my motherboard, CPUID HWMonitor shows my i5 3570K (yay for drop-in CPU upgrades!) shows each of the 4 cores idling at around 28C (around 5-6C above ambient) and under a heavy load never climbing above 50-53C. It's not overclocked, though. I can tell yogi that you will absolutely love the case.
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:55 am

Okay. Bought everything today and finished my build! Installing lots of bloatware now!

Unfortunately no one had any 780 GTX's in stock :(
So I sadly only got an eVGA 770 ACX SC. :D

Now I get to enjoy the touch-less Windows 8 (already had it on my tablet)

Wow that hyper 212 evo backplate is a PITA to get on when you flatten one of the stand-offs while shoving them through the bracket... :roll: All easily fixed though by a monkey wrench and a screw driver working in tandem!

24 degrees celsius (room temp is 22 degrees!) at idle on ALL CORES. Can't even hear that the damn thing is on because the PSU is super silent, and the case is super silent. It's INSANE! Time for some Prime chaos and see if these fans are up to anything useful! (Okay ran Prime95 and max temp was 60 degrees celsius on any core @ 3.7 GHz.)

One other difference was the store had GeIL memory clocked at 2133 on sale for the same price as the 1600 Corsair stuff. So I jumped on. Was the last one available and it's running smoothly.
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:43 am

Sorry I didn't see this a little earlier Yogi, fellow Aussie here mate.

I've used PC Case Gear for parts for years mate, they've usually got the best price and the most stock in the nation, except eBay.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?mai ... h=193_1483

There's a few 780s in stock there, you could always list the 770 on eBay and turn it around for a 780 while it's hot. They also stock the Seasonic PSU units that JAE mentioned.

Regardless, you built a sweet rig man. Temps look good. Enjoy!
3770, 16GB, QUO AOS, GTX 690, 512GB 840 Pro, Xonar DSX - Watercooled DS Cube
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Re: Haswell 4770k + 780 build

Postposted on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:06 pm

Okay I have one problem with my build...

The headphone audio quality is RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(This is coming from a Asus P35K-E/Wifi-AP Solo).

The old Q9450 chugged along on the following integrated audio chip:
ADI® AD1988B 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC

The new fandangled Asus Z87-Plus runs on:
Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC

Why is the quality sooooooo much worse on a potentially more premium board? :evil:

Farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk. Switching to front panel audio :(

You mean I have to buy a DAC now after spending $240 on a motherboard?.... :(
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:39 pm

OMG...

The pain won't end. Swapping to the front panel results in what seems to be working sound for ~5 mins only for it to then start going from Max to 0 volume all the time. :(

I hate this stupid Asus HD Audio Manager software. It is bloaty as all hell and won't keep anything constant. Argggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Why doth the recommended sound cards have to be Asus as well!

Head smashing against wall!!!!! Within HD Audio manager I can get it to play the test music... but watching say a youtube video results in volume of equivalent to 1 at max settings. Running both at the same time, the audio manager BLASTS out the noises, while youtube continues to be a quiet whisper.

Trying a driver update as the one that came on the disk was from May 2013...

But the one linked to on the Asus website is a badlink... :( http://www.asus.com/ca-en/support/Downl ... 7-PLUS/35/
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Fri Jul 05, 2013 6:00 pm

There is another company that builds better sound cards and drivers than Asus does.
i7-4770K, H70, Gryphon Z87, 16 GiB, R9-290, SSD, 2 HD, Blu-ray, SB ZX, TJ08-E, SS-660XP², 3007WFP+2001FP, RK-9000BR, MX518
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:51 pm

yogibbear wrote:OMG...

The pain won't end. Swapping to the front panel results in what seems to be working sound for ~5 mins only for it to then start going from Max to 0 volume all the time. :(

I hate this stupid Asus HD Audio Manager software. It is bloaty as all hell and won't keep anything constant. Argggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Why doth the recommended sound cards have to be Asus as well!

Head smashing against wall!!!!! Within HD Audio manager I can get it to play the test music... but watching say a youtube video results in volume of equivalent to 1 at max settings. Running both at the same time, the audio manager BLASTS out the noises, while youtube continues to be a quiet whisper.

Trying a driver update as the one that came on the disk was from May 2013...

But the one linked to on the Asus website is a badlink... :( http://www.asus.com/ca-en/support/Downl ... 7-PLUS/35/


You should be able to use Realtek's drivers for a Realtek chipset; they may be customized for the implementation, though. Also, ASUS' own cards are likely better, but when it comes to software and ease of use, Creative is where it's at these days. The Sound Blaster Z is *the* card to get for gaming unless you're outputting surround sound over HDMI.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:48 pm

If I can piggyback on this thread, I have the Define R4 and a cheaper version of the OP's build (GeForce 660, Rosewill Capstone 450-M Gold, Crucial 8gb, Z87-A, 4670K, 840 non-pro 250gb, 1TB WD Black).

I'm in the market for another front intake fan because I need to run the R4's at 80% just to get neutral pressure. I know nothing about case fans, so does anyone have any suggestions for something reasonably quiet that can move air through the R4's filter?
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:58 am

Uninstalling the drivers for the onbouard Asus has fixed it partially... still annoyed. At least my old setup running through the centre rear can now drive both my speakers + headphones again, but separately. Without constantly losing sound.
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:50 am

yogibbear wrote:Uninstalling the drivers for the onbouard Asus has fixed it partially... still annoyed. At least my old setup running through the centre rear can now drive both my speakers + headphones again, but separately. Without constantly losing sound.


Cannot believe I am getting better sound quality after uninstalling the onboard sound drivers... this is pathetic. Looking into a soundcard. But the audio quality un-Asus'd is fine through my HD555's, if a tad flat / linear compared to my old Adi whatever.
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:17 am

Ok I am totally confused but a total system wipe and reinstall of all things Asus has the HD Audio Manager no longer chucking a constant hissy fit and now my sound is working as expected and sounds pretty decent. No longer getting ridiculously low volume, application blindness / override, and no longer having interference noise when no sounds are being played. Scared to touch anything really in case it all comes back! But at least it's working...

Sadly for whatever unknown reason wiping the asus hd audio mananger and reinstalling has somehow (though I doubt it's related) caused my logitech webcam to stop working... but I can still turn on the LED on/off via the software so it's definitely detecting it, just can't get any video/microphone to work. :-?
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:30 am

Nope. I am wrong. It's still terrible. Just less so. ARGH. Ruins music completely. Can't watch video streams as audio seems to cut out / get corrupted in the middle of playing. :( Worst on-board audio chip ever. It literally sounds like the music is artifacting. If that makes sense? Like the music even sounds as if it is lagging as it is delivered so the song gets out of time. It's crazy. Or maybe I'm going crazy, but my music actually sounds wrong like it's been cheaply digitally sampled.
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:46 am

If it's 'flaky', then you very well could have a bad motherboard. Could RMA it, or you could just get a real soundcard- the RMA will be cheaper butyou'll be without a board unless your vendor will cross ship. If you like the audio quality when the sound does work, it might be worth it, that's what I'd probably do.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:52 am

I think it's a Windows 8 problem.

I seem to have audio fine if I'm running it via Metro apps. My webcam also works in the "camera" metro app. But if I run things via the desktop e.g. watching a game trailer within Steam, or straight up using VLC player I get issues..... My webcam also isn't picked up by the desktop version of Skype, but runs fine in the Metro skype app. :( I am assuming both issues are related t Windows 8 hardware restrictions / application control which I cannot seem to find any settings for. Am trying my best Google-FU skills to find various fixes... which are slowly unravelling things, but so far no magical fixes, just small slight improvements towards normalcy. E.g. my sound has stabilised in VLC, but not in Steam.
Core i7 4770K | eVGA GTX770 SC ACX | 16GB DDR3 2133mhz | Asus Z87-PLUS | Corsair HX650 | Fractal Define R4 | Samsung 840 Pro 256GB | Windows 8 x64
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Re: Haswell 4770k + eVGA 770 ACX build

Postposted on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:05 am

yogibbear wrote:I think it's a Windows 8 problem.

I seem to have audio fine if I'm running it via Metro apps. My webcam also works in the "camera" metro app. But if I run things via the desktop e.g. watching a game trailer within Steam, or straight up using VLC player I get issues..... My webcam also isn't picked up by the desktop version of Skype, but runs fine in the Metro skype app. :( I am assuming both issues are related t Windows 8 hardware restrictions / application control which I cannot seem to find any settings for. Am trying my best Google-FU skills to find various fixes... which are slowly unravelling things, but so far no magical fixes, just small slight improvements towards normalcy. E.g. my sound has stabilised in VLC, but not in Steam.


It may be more driver-related, I'd think; I can at least offer my experience with Windows 8 and built-in audio on a pair of laptops, one Realtek one something else, and neither of them have problems with audio with non-Metro apps. I don't run any Metro apps, though; there's nothing there for me that I know of, really. Might be more interested when 8.1 hits RTM and I can install it everywhere, but for now I haunt the desktop only. Heck, even on my gaming desktop with 8.1 (and previously 8) the Creative drivers for my aging X-Fi have been flawless.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
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