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It appears that a few years ago some celebutard started pronouncing the word "herb" as "erb" and on the theory "eat ****, 40 billion flies can't be wrong", many have followed suit. I have even heard it taken further where it is pronounced "urb".

When I have heard it pronounced "erb" by people around me and I pull them up on it I generally get the answer, "It comes from the French so the "H" is silent".

That is pure BS. The word herb comes from the Latin word "Herba" meaning grass. There is no silent "H" in Latin.

If one pronounces the word herb as "erb" one is not being cool or posh, one is just making a pretentious idiot of ones self.

Nec_V20 wrote:

... one is just making a pretentious idiot of ones self.

Just quoting that because you made a thread about this.

DancinJack wrote:

Nec_V20 wrote:

... one is just making a pretentious idiot of ones self.

Just quoting that because you made a thread about this.

If I had written "... you're just making a pretentious idiot of yourself", someone would have complained about being personally attacked.

We in the US are (typically) soft on the "h", so "erb" is a correct pronunciation. In fact, I heard someone from the UK prnounce that letter as "hache" or "hayche" the other day and it sounded very strange to me since the "h" is silent in US classrooms (so it sounds like "ayche"). Although Wikipedia suggests that some in the US pronounce the "h" in "herb", I have never personally heard it here.

So you may not like it (or rather, you may not be used to it), but "erb" is a correct pronunciation of "herb".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/herb?s=t&path=/

herb -- urb or, esp. British, hurb.

urb is how I've always heard it, since I started school in the late 1970's. Is the OP in the UK?

Hawkwing74 wrote:

urb is how I've always heard it, since I started school in the late 1970's. Is the OP in the UK?

That's my guess.

Wrong. According to the OED either pronunciation is acceptable:

OED wrote:

Middle English: via Old French from Latin herba 'grass, green crops, herb'. Although herb has always been spelled with an h, pronunciation without it was usual in British English until the 19th century and is still standard in the US

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/defini ... glish/herb

Also, Star Trek was wrong for splitting the infinitive with their "to boldly go" line.

:ducks:

Thought this might be relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hJQsvoY6VU

steelcity_ballin wrote:

+1

Not only are there various flavors of "english" (Brit/US/Aussie/Canadian) but even within a country there are various dialects (Canadia has them newfies that talk funny, or so they tell me) like redneck, south, midwest, west, northeast in the US. Language is dynamic, not static, so even if you knew exactly how the Romans pronounced Latin, you don't know if they had various dialects, too, and it doesn't matter because we're not speaking latin, we're speaking english--the root is of academic interest but of little practical value as guidance for how to pronounce something.

"Scrot" is old english meaning "to shred" but I doubt anyone thinks of that when they read my name. You have to judge language by its contemporary standard when looking to the present day, not by a long-dead standard. Otherwise, where are all the sanskrit fanboys to shout you down about how latin muddled up all the words they stole? Just sayin'.

To add to the silliness... Herb can be slang for cannibus in the US. 'Erb referees to oregano, rosemary, basil, et al.

Scrotos wrote:

Not only are there various flavors of "english" (Brit/US/Aussie/Canadian) but even within a country there are various dialects (Canadia has them newfies that talk funny, or so they tell me) like redneck, south, midwest, west, northeast in the US. Language is dynamic, not static, so even if you knew exactly how the Romans pronounced Latin, you don't know if they had various dialects, too, and it doesn't matter because we're not speaking latin, we're speaking english--the root is of academic interest but of little practical value as guidance for how to pronounce something.

"Scrot" is old english meaning "to shred" but I doubt anyone thinks of that when they read my name. You have to judge language by its contemporary standard when looking to the present day, not by a long-dead standard. Otherwise, where are all the sanskrit fanboys to shout you down about how latin muddled up all the words they stole? Just sayin'.

Interesting and important take. I know it's a /streotype of Asians (and probably a little racist), but the inability to pronounce the letter "L" is a real thing I noticed from a Chinese coworker (and I do mean he was originally from China). If you never practice or learn a particular letter in your native language, you probably aren't going to be able to use it in a new one. I actually saw a similar thing happen with a Spanish teacher in college with the pronunciation of "rr", which, as I originally learned, was "rolling" the r's in Spanish, but apparently there are some Spanish speaking countries that use "z" in place of the roll, which is what he did.

Somebody needs their ash kicked to the herb !!

superjawes wrote:

Interesting and important take. I know it's a /streotype of Asians (and probably a little racist), but the inability to pronounce the letter "L" is a real thing I noticed from a Chinese coworker (and I do mean he was originally from China). If you never practice or learn a particular letter in your native language, you probably aren't going to be able to use it in a new one.

In fact, for some Asian languages, "L" and "R" sounds _exactly the same_.

It's similar to the effect with colours where giving a particular shade a name allows the mind to distinguish them. Someone who doesn't have the distinction in mind might perhaps see two objects as both "green" whereas someone with the distinction in mind would consider them different colours (lime-green versus fir green).

That bit about R and L is true for Japanese, and it drove my wife nuts. To her, Shelly and Sherry are pronounced the same, because they would be written the same in katakana. There literally is no difference, even though we spell them differently. After much confusion on the intercom, Shelly became Shell. Problem solved.

On topic, it's erb around here. You could re-ignite the the soda vs pop wars instead. It's more controversial and just as futile.

Scrotos wrote:

even within a country there are various dialects (Canadia has them newfies that talk funny, or so they tell me)

Very true. Newfies have a VERY thick fisherman/coastal accent where they kinda of merge all the words together. Here's a great Newfie youtube video.

Most Canadians can't understand that.

A better example would be Calgary. Depending on where you are, it'll be pronounced "Cal-gree" or "Cal-gary".

But to this original post, who cares? In normal conversation the "h" in herb is near-silent (I'm not saying it is silent, I'm saying it's near silent). If you talk fast, even if you pronounce the "h", the "erb" will be the stronger and the person listening probably won't even notice you said/didn't say the "h".

There are a lot of things to get annoyed about. This is not one of them.

bthylafh wrote:

Also, Star Trek was wrong for splitting the infinitive with their "to boldly go" line.

:ducks:

Split infinitives are a made up grammar rule which isn't even taught anymore, thankfully.

DancinJack wrote:

Nec_V20 wrote:

... one is just making a pretentious idiot of ones self.

Just quoting that because you made a thread about this.

You took the words right out of my fingers.

Vrock wrote:

You took the words right out of my fingers.

I'm afraid I agree. It's always refreshing to read topics where the author is wrong.

superjawes wrote:

We in the US are (typically) soft on the "h", so "erb" is a correct pronunciation. In fact, I heard someone from the UK prnounce that letter as "hache" or "hayche" the other day and it sounded very strange to me since the "h" is silent in US classrooms (so it sounds like "ayche"). Although Wikipedia suggests that some in the US pronounce the "h" in "herb", I have never personally heard it here.

So you may not like it (or rather, you may not be used to it), but "erb" is a correct pronunciation of "herb".

The letter "h" is usually pronounced as "ayche" in the UK as well. Adding the h- sound in front is not uncommon, but often seen as a sign of a relative lack of education, so it's almost certainly a class-based things that goes back a few hundred years. You'd never hear a presenter on the BBC say it as "hayche".

Herb as "erb" is never heard in the UK, except on US TV shows. Pronounced that way, it does sound slightly pretentious to British ears, but I have no idea why. It would be a boring world if the "right" way of doing things was the same everywhere.

BobbinThreadbare wrote:

bthylafh wrote:

Also, Star Trek was wrong for splitting the infinitive with their "to boldly go" line.

:ducks:

Split infinitives are a made up grammar rule which isn't even taught anymore, thankfully.

I was taught it...I don't agree with it, but I was taught it.

MrJP wrote:

It would be a boring world if the "right" way of doing things was the same everywhere.

Debatable! Highly debatable.

Concerning the "hayche", I just have to add this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3y0CD2CoCs

It's pronounced "eych", not "hayche"...

MistaKil wrote:

Thought this might be relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hJQsvoY6VU

Dear god Its a large Tyrion Lannister in drag.

superjawes wrote:

BobbinThreadbare wrote:

Split infinitives are a made up grammar rule which isn't even taught anymore, thankfully.

I was taught it...I don't agree with it, but I was taught it.

In other words, you disagree with those who want to needlessly teach that split infinitives are forbidden?

Nec_V20 wrote:

There is no silent "H" in Latin.

Reality isn't that simple.

Nec_V20 wrote:

...one is just making a pretentious idiot of ones self.

But this is all that matters of what you wrote.

Nec_V20 wrote:

When I have heard it pronounced "erb" by people around me and I pull them up on it I generally get the answer, "It comes from the French so the "H" is silent".

That is pure BS. The word herb comes from the Latin word "Herba" meaning grass. There is no silent "H" in Latin.

I'm no etymologist (almost typed entomologist - I can just imagine how much that might have bugged the op...) but the "It comes from the French" argument may have some validity. During much of the mid, erm, middle ages, there was a strong French influence in England (which could have obviously impacted pronunciation of words), I think mostly following William the Conqueror. While much of the populace continued to speak a version of old English, much of the nobility and ruling monarchy spoke a version of French. By extension, many of those educated at the time in England also spoke and wrote in French (and Latin). The English that solidified toward the end of the middle ages (around 1300-1400?) in England therefore had quite a bit of French influence - and likely why there are as many similarities between French and English today as there are (above and beyond the fact that they both originated largely from Latin)

Plus, the French have a body that regulates their language!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9 ... %C3%A7aise