Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:38 pm

Image


Pretty bad picture of it, but basically the right solder is gone entirely, and I can't even find it anywhere, almost as if it was NEVER there...the other sides Solder isn't even holding it down.

More and more lost on what I should buy.

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP40NKUS-M ... encil+Iron

This seems like a fine thing, though it's lead free solder.


Or for about 22$(Inc shipping)

I can grab this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003AG ... 57Q9VZBBO8

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068 ... G15QSM4M3M

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00018 ... J127DJ5YXU
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:15 am

For electronics, you want 63/37 Sn/Pb. That's the eutectic point, with the lowest melting temperature (183°C).
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:18 am

I don't know what that is. You said previous page that the 60 / 40 from Radio Shack was good and a 40w was needed.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:09 am

Mkilbride wrote:I don't know what that is. You said previous page that the 60 / 40 from Radio Shack was good and a 40w was needed.

Eutectic means the tin/lead ratio that solidifies at the lowest temperature (easier soldering). Here's a link to 63/37 that's really thin and made for PCB work.

http://www.amazon.com/Kester-Rosin-Core ... B00068IJX6
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:41 am

It's also crazy expensive.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:53 am

60/40 tin/lead is fine for the sort of job we're talking about here. It only has to be heated to 186°C (368°F) to melt vs. 183°C (361°F) for the 63/37 eutectic alloy. These keyboard switches aren't nearly as heat-sensitive as some of the tiny electronics that you find surface-mounted to motherboards.
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:55 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:For electronics, you want 63/37 Sn/Pb. That's the eutectic point, with the lowest melting temperature (183°C).

Mkilbride wrote:I don't know what that is. You said previous page that the 60 / 40 from Radio Shack was good and a 40w was needed.

60/40 is close enough (melting point and mechanical characteristics very close to that of 63/37). And still much better for electronics work than the lead-free stuff.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:47 pm

SO would the stuff I picked out for 22$ work out? if so, placing the order tonight.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:00 pm

The stuff you picked out is fine, it's the same 60/40 Kester solder just a lot less of it. JBI linked a 1 pound spool which unless you are an electronic hobbiest is a *lot* of solder. Get a pocket pack or two for the job you're doing.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:39 pm

MadManOriginal wrote:The stuff you picked out is fine, it's the same 60/40 Kester solder just a lot less of it. JBI linked a 1 pound spool which unless you are an electronic hobbiest is a *lot* of solder. Get a pocket pack or two for the job you're doing.

Actually it was just a 2.5 oz spool. Ned linked the pound; I think he's planning to stock up (if he hasn't already done so) for when lead-based solder eventually gets outlawed!
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:10 pm

MadManOriginal wrote:1 pound spool
I'm about to crack one open for the second time, and another for the first time. If I'd have known how much rework these things require, I might have bought a pound of solder up front too. :roll:

Though, so far, I've only used about 2 inches of the smallest spool of the thinnest 60/40 I could find at Radio Shack.

Edit: This might have come-off a little harsh. I appreciate (and learned something from) JustAnEngineer's technical comment. But, this rework is closer to what they used to call "meatball surgery" on M*A*S*H (anyone old enough to remember that sitcom?).
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:52 pm

MarkG509 wrote:Edit: This might have come-off a little harsh. I appreciate (and learned something from) JustAnEngineer's technical comment. But, this rework is closer to what they used to call "meatball surgery" on M*A*S*H (anyone old enough to remember that sitcom?).

Used to watch it every week when I was in college. There are a few of us old farts here...
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:56 pm

I think one pocket pack is enough, no? It's just two tiny dots of solder. I don't need Solder for anything else.


Dammit, and in the time I waited to get a response, the price rose 4$.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:00 pm

Mkilbride wrote:I think one pocket pack is enough, no? It's just two tiny dots of solder. I don't need Solder for anything else.

Yup, if all you ever do with it is repair keyboards the pocket pack is probably a lifetime supply.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:11 pm

Is the Solder with lead really needed? Because I can a kit that comes with wick and lead free solder for less, no kits I've found come with lead solder. Still trying to get the best bang for my back ,25$ and under on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP40NKUS-M ... uctDetails

Something like this looks awesome really, the LEDs look useful for low light situations.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:27 pm

Lead-free solder is more susceptible to stress fractures since it is more brittle than lead-based; I believe the use of lead-free solder is one of the reasons the connector tends to fail in the first place. Lead-free solder also melts at a higher temperature, which makes it more likely you will cause heat damage to the components you are trying to solder, or to the circuit board itself.

Lead-free solder is obviously less toxic (the reason it was invented in the first place); but as long as you work in a well ventilated area and wash your hands after handling the solder this is not a risk you need worry about.

That said, the brittleness issue is less of a concern if you rig some sort of strain relief for the cable. And USB connectors aren't particularly delicate, so the potential for heat damage is less of an issue than it would be if you were soldering active components like ICs, MOSFETs, or LEDs.

My personal preference is to use lead-based solder. At the end of the day, it is a judgement call you will need to make for yourself, given the factors I've listed above.

And FWIW the stuff I listed originally was under $25...

Edit: And Radio Shack doesn't jack the price up just because you've looked at an item!
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:30 pm

Mkilbride wrote:the price rose 4$.

Amazon does that. They reprice items on 15 minute window. If a product gets some attention (your page hits is enough), the price goes up. By linking an item to a post here, that could increase the page-hit-rate.

You can make it work in your favor, however. Wanna save a few bucks? Find something you want, then clear your cookies. Look where they tell you what other people bought after looking at that item. Hit those pages once an hour for a few hours. Then go back to the thing you really want and the price will (often) be lower, while the things whose pages you were trolling will be more expensive.

You can, on a much slower/longer time scale, do the same thing by putting something in the save-for-later area of your shopping cart. Ignore it for a few days/weeks, add something completely unrelated to your cart, and Amazon will tell you that whatever was in your save area has decreased in price. Add the thing from your save-area of your cart to lock-in the price, delete the thing you added that you didn't want anyway (but only added to get them to reprocess your save-for-later stuff), and profit.

TL;DR: The price went up cause Mr. Bezos knows you will probably buy it. Convince him otherwise and the price will go down.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:57 pm

just brew it! wrote:Lead-free solder is obviously less toxic

My understanding is that lead (in any form) is much worse for children than adults. Send any kids outside to play in the fresh air until after you've finished and cleaned up. Especially, make sure no one uses the leaded solder to fix any leaks in water-supply lines in your house.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:26 pm

MarkG509 wrote:
MadManOriginal wrote:1 pound spool
I'm about to crack one open for the second time, and another for the first time. If I'd have known how much rework these things require, I might have bought a pound of solder up front too. :roll:

Though, so far, I've only used about 2 inches of the smallest spool of the thinnest 60/40 I could find at Radio Shack.

Edit: This might have come-off a little harsh. I appreciate (and learned something from) JustAnEngineer's technical comment. But, this rework is closer to what they used to call "meatball surgery" on M*A*S*H (anyone old enough to remember that sitcom?).


I guess everyone's experience is different. I've had a brown switch RK-9000 in moderate-heavy daily use for almost a year, no problems. I just got a blue switch RK-9000 (which I like more :D) and it's fine out of the box. I was careful about not letting the USB cable hit anything to put strain on the connector, the way my desk is it can't. Read mechanical keyboard reviews, especially for less expensive brands (Coolermaster also seems to have a fair number of defect/gone bad after a short time - I think they are Costar OEM too), and you'll find 'switch gone bad' for all of them. Maybe the more expensive ones are more carefully manufactured, but I'll save $50 and risk it...given the service time of my brown switch unit the risk paid off. If I do ever have to do a repair I'll just reflow everything while it's open, no big deal.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:38 pm

My older RK-9000s (from before they switched OEMs) have been essentially flawless for close to 3 years. My only complaints are squeaky Backspace keys (this issue went away on its own after a couple weeks of use), and excessively bright blue num/caps/scroll lock LEDs (I put pieces of tape over them to filter the light).

The newer RK-9000BL my son uses has suffered from both of the widely reported RK-9000 issues (USB connector breakage and individual keys randomly failing). We've had it opened up 3 times now to repair failed solder connections.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:15 pm

There's really no way to say without some real statistics (you know what the plural of anecdote isn't ;)). I didn't know they changed OEMs though? The design has always looked to same to me, with the giveaway red metal plate that points to Costar, but I suppose I didn't look at them 3 years ago.

Any squeaky keys are most likely due to the stabilizer bars on larger keys. The blue switch version I just got had some lubricant on the stabilizer bars, so did my brown switch from about a year ago.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:42 pm

just brew it! wrote:The newer RK-9000BL .."

I bought an RK9000BRI when Newegg had it on sale a couple of weeks ago. They added an extra bezel to the (new/ugly/white) case around the usb connector, presumably to relieve some of the strain. So, I think they are aware of the issues we've seen. After a week of heavy typing, the right shift key has started to miss. But so far, no issues with the usb connector. When I crack it open, I expect I'll reflow all the keys I tend to pound on (shift, enter, backspace) whether they need it or not.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the new 9200 models with regard to quality (other than the flashy lighting).
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:48 pm

MadManOriginal wrote:I didn't know they changed OEMs though?

Pretty sure I read somwhere that they switched OEMs. Even if not, then they at least got their OEM to cheapen the design. The older ones don't have the problematic USB connector, have a higher quality cable, and the plastic casing looks and feels like it is of higher quality as well.

MarkG509 wrote:... When I crack it open, I expect I'll reflow all the keys I tend to pound on (shift, enter, backspace) whether they need it or not.

Don't *just* reflow them. Press down firmly on the key while reflowing the switch connections, to ensure that it is firmly seated against the mounting plate and PCB. This will reduce stress on the connections going forward and help prevent the problem from happening again.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:38 pm

Well, f* me...so I wanted to try blue switches ever since I got the browns. Saw sales come and go, finally decided to bite after a year. I *love* the design of the Corsair keyboards but they only made them with black and red switches since they came out. I figured 'they won't make them with blues or browns, because if they wanted to they would have already.' I read a review of the K70 a few weeks ago that mentioned blues and browns but there was nothing on the Corsair site, US or international, so I figured it's the reviewer being dumb. Now I look on Newegg and Corsairs with blues and browns are listed with a release date of 9/16 -__- OF COURSE, right after I buy the Rosewill...buying a cheap one to try out blues was a good plan, it's just a kick in the nuts to see what I *really* wanted listed less than a week after I ordered this one.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:25 am

Mother effers, it rose 50 cents in price again, from the same seller!
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:37 am

MadManOriginal wrote:"... what I *really* wanted ..."

I have about half a dozen real Honest-to-God Model M's in my closet. I picked some of them out of the trash at work, some have cable issues, but otherwise work and are probably older than almost everyone reading this forum. Long ago, this was all I used, but after a 3 day hacking session, my wrists and forearms would start to ache, and eventually my fingers would lose their aim on the keys.

MX Blues remind me too much of the buckling spring feel. Using the MX Browns, my eyes tend to give out before my hands. I still do, and will always love the Model M feel, but only for limited use. So, be careful what you want....

I'm considering trying Reds (lighter Blacks, right?). If they ever come out with even lighter and shorter stroke Brown's, I'll take 4 over-night shipped...
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:45 am

The tactile feel of browns is good, way better than rubber dome, but too little for me - I guess I am a little heavy-handed. When I am typing fast or playing a game I can just barely tell the bump is there. I think I actually type more lightly with the blues because the tactile feedback is more noticable and the audible feedback adds to it - I usually bottomed out the browns unless I consciously tried not to. The blues are still lighter than buckling spring imo.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:00 am

3 months into Rosewill RK-9000RE (redesigned version).

Keyboard is as solid as ever, but the typeface on the keyboard is already starting to wear, and I don't even use my keyboard excesively (don't code, game maybe 4-5 hrs/week).

A bit bummed out.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:24 am

Ordered the stuff. Hopefully it gets here before the week ends. Using my old Membrane keyboard, which isn't bad, but feels exhausting for some reason.
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Re: Rosewill RK-9000 caveat

Postposted on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:27 am

MadManOriginal wrote:The blues are still lighter than buckling spring imo.

The buckling spring 'boards I've had (two different Unicomps) had noticeably different stiffness of the keys. That was actually one of the reasons I switched -- moving back and forth between the two Unicomps (one at home, one at work) was making me crazy. The blues are pretty close to (but still a bit lighter than) the touch of the less stiff of the two Unicomps. For me, the feel of the blues is just about perfect.

Guess I'll give the browns a try if I ever need to work in an office environment where the noise of the blues is an issue.
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