Choosing a new rifle.

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Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:20 pm

I've been thinking about getting a rifle for deer hunting, but I'm cheap and don't want to spend anymore than I have to. Deer hunting in this area is usually in think brush, so I think I'll need a heavier round. I'm thinking 30.06. Can anyone recommend an inexpensive brand of rifle that has decent quality? Also, I'd like to get a scope that's good, but not too expensive.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:25 pm

Minigun.

After you mow that heavy bush down (aka Arnold in Predator) that deer won't have any place to hide. Of course...there might not be anything left of the deer either...
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:43 pm

Here you go,
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/08/1 ... under-500/

I have two older savage 110's in 30-06 and they work flawlessly for the last 40+ years.

The Marlin comes pre scoped for 460$....I am sure once you site it in it will shoot fine.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:43 pm

If you're really cheap, there's the good old Mosin M91/30 firing 7.62x54R, which is in the same performance range as .30-06. Before the current round of panic buying they'd go for a bit under $100 per; you could probably still find one in good shape for $150.

Ersatz sniper conversions with the Soviet-style scope could probably be found for $500-ish. I'd suggest getting one of those instead of drilling the receiver of a piece of history. Alternatively I seem to remember a scope mount that would fit onto the rear sight mount for something closer to a scout scope.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:44 pm

I "personally" prefer a level-action for deer hunting, but mind you I've been hunting 20+ years in brush and scrub lands. Scoped rifles to me personally are just a bit much. i like the Mossberg 464 - it's .30-30 Winchester or .22LR, but obviously you probably know which one you'd get. :)

I do have a pretty strong feeling that if it's not sport, you shouldn't be doing it.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:01 am

There are definitely some good rifles on the list linked above. As keltor mentioned, I tend to lean towards a .30-30 for a woods/brush deer gun; something like a Marlin 336 handles well in the woods and the caliber has taken plenty of deer. A 170 grain flatpoint is hardly high-tech but it will do the job very well if you place your shot correctly.

If you think you might branch out to longer ranges someday however then a more modern caliber is probably a good idea. If you're considering .30-06 I'd say you should also consider a .270 or .308. Until you get into the 180 grain bullet weight range (which is on the heavy side for whitetail) the .308 is basically on par with the .30-06. The .270 has a significantly better MPBR (maximum point-blank range) than the .30-06 due to the better ballistic coefficient of the bullets and higher velocities. That doesn't really matter in the woods but if you do start taking longer range shots in the future you'll come to appreciate it.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:08 am

keltor wrote:I do have a pretty strong feeling that if it's not sport, you shouldn't be doing it.


I whole heartedly disagree. I'm a long time hunter and I believe that if you do it for "sport" it exemplifies everything that is wrong. I hunt(s)(ed) as a means to feed my family. I don't hunt for trophies, I use what I hunt to supplement feeding my family. Yes, I can afford to feed my family otherwise but what I take from the land I give back many times over. My land is a sanctuary for wildlife complete with feeding stations. I do not hunt on my own land but yet I could if I wish mow down many dozen deer for "sport" if I wished. I take what I can use and nothing more. You will not see one trophy on my wall except for the 8 pound northern pike that was my first fish ever caught.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:10 am

A given budget would help.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:35 am

Deanjo wrote:I whole heartedly disagree. I'm a long time hunter and I believe that if you do it for "sport" it exemplifies everything that is wrong. I hunt(s)(ed) as a means to feed my family. I don't hunt for trophies, I use what I hunt to supplement feeding my family. Yes, I can afford to feed my family otherwise but what I take from the land I give back many times over. My land is a sanctuary for wildlife complete with feeding stations. I do not hunt on my own land but yet I could if I wish mow down many dozen deer for "sport" if I wished. I take what I can use and nothing more. You will not see one trophy on my wall except for the 8 pound northern pike that was my first fish ever caught.


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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:33 am

The 308 and 30-06 have almost identical trajectory's , muzzel velocity's and bullet drop. yes the 30-06 has a bigger brass case but the 308 is a more modern round, thus more powerful powder can be used thus a higher pressure chamber value then the 30-06. Both Ammo's are widely available. I like the look of a 30-06 round better but they perform the same pretty much.
My father reloaded when he was living and he made some Hot rounds, boy were they loud and did kick a bit harder.They just were not accurate as a standard load with a 165 grain speer bullet with the 4 corner crimped pointed hollow point. His standard loads with the same bullet shot a 2" grouping@100yrds with 3 shots from either his left handed newer savage 110c or my older 110 "Grampas" gun. The hot loads hit a 4 inch group, But since we all knew they were hot rounds we could have been jerking the trigger.

And I am with you deanjo...financially I am sure you and i can get away with NOT getting a deer or 2 every year, but venison is my favorite meat and i cannot buy it at the store. So i go out and harvest a deer or 2 if I am lucky. Plus i love the woods and taking naps while hunting. I am a super light sleeper. In my 30 years of hunting at least 10 of those years I have been woken up buy hearing the deer and waking up...its my secret weapon. Black bears have woken me up also a few times but they are super noisy compared to a deer, they are more like a person or 2 walking through the woods dragging there feet. Oh and i woke up to a chickadee little bird eating my sandwich in my hand, that was neat. It flew away after a few minutes when I winked at it. So I know I was not snoring :)

I am not a big fan of beef liver. But I love a fresh Deer liver that is less then 4 hrs old that I fry in a pan with butter and onions and plain old salt and black pepper....yummie!
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:15 pm

Deanjo wrote:
keltor wrote:I do have a pretty strong feeling that if it's not sport, you shouldn't be doing it.


I whole heartedly disagree. I'm a long time hunter and I believe that if you do it for "sport" it exemplifies everything that is wrong. I hunt(s)(ed) as a means to feed my family. I don't hunt for trophies, I use what I hunt to supplement feeding my family. Yes, I can afford to feed my family otherwise but what I take from the land I give back many times over. My land is a sanctuary for wildlife complete with feeding stations. I do not hunt on my own land but yet I could if I wish mow down many dozen deer for "sport" if I wished. I take what I can use and nothing more. You will not see one trophy on my wall except for the 8 pound northern pike that was my first fish ever caught.


I am a long time vegetarian, be about 50 years now and I love the bush and the animals in it. Humans are not my favorite species.

I can at least respect your attitude and practice. Thank you for pointing out that killing things is in no way a sport.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:21 pm

Watch these guys; they know what they're talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CoIhl3puuI
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:35 pm

Deanjo wrote:
I whole heartedly disagree. I'm a long time hunter and I believe that if you do it for "sport" it exemplifies everything that is wrong. I hunt(s)(ed) as a means to feed my family. I don't hunt for trophies, I use what I hunt to supplement feeding my family. Yes, I can afford to feed my family otherwise but what I take from the land I give back many times over. My land is a sanctuary for wildlife complete with feeding stations. I do not hunt on my own land but yet I could if I wish mow down many dozen deer for "sport" if I wished. I take what I can use and nothing more. You will not see one trophy on my wall except for the 8 pound northern pike that was my first fish ever caught.


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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:25 pm

Marlin XL7 30-06 w/ 3-9x40 Scope. $339.95 + $30 shipping excluding FFL xfer fees. (http://www.gunsamerica.com/980361048/Ma ... ch_Pad.htm)

Personally, I'm wanting the 270 model, a bit more accurate.

At least 270 and 30-06 ammo are readily available at decent prices at Walmarts.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:35 pm

BIF wrote:
Deanjo wrote:I whole heartedly disagree. I'm a long time hunter and I believe that if you do it for "sport" it exemplifies everything that is wrong. I hunt(s)(ed) as a means to feed my family. I don't hunt for trophies, I use what I hunt to supplement feeding my family. Yes, I can afford to feed my family otherwise but what I take from the land I give back many times over. My land is a sanctuary for wildlife complete with feeding stations. I do not hunt on my own land but yet I could if I wish mow down many dozen deer for "sport" if I wished. I take what I can use and nothing more. You will not see one trophy on my wall except for the 8 pound northern pike that was my first fish ever caught.


Now there's a real man. The world needs more like you. Respect.


There's no difference between hunting for sport, and what most people call 'fishing', which is basically hunting fish for sport.

I personally don't hunt or fish for sport or fun, and would prefer to provide for animals on any land I owned instead of hunting them, but have no issues at all with those who do.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:04 pm

The only time fishing would be anything like hunting would be if you fished with Dynamite, Bow or spear gun.

With fishing there is something called catch and release.

Last time I checked every animal I have shot with a gun could not be released back into the wild like a fish can.

To the OP that marlin looks like a nice gun with the adjustable trigger that one guy on the forums said out of the box lets loose at 3.3lbs. That is a nice trigger pull, plus adjustable. Remington 700 style safety and a Savage style barrel mount. and shoots 1 " groups at 100yrds. For a new gun it just cant be beat for the performance price ratio.

https://forums.cabelas.com/showthread.php?t=9553 There is the forum link if you want to read some.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:15 pm

vargis14 wrote:The only time fishing would be anything like hunting would be if you fished with Dynamite, Bow or spear gun.

With fishing there is something called catch and release.

Last time I checked every animal I have shot with a gun could not be released back into the wild like a fish can.

To the OP that marlin looks like a nice gun with the adjustable trigger that one guy on the forums said out of the box lets loose at 3.3lbs. That is a nice trigger pull, plus adjustable. Remington 700 style safety and a Savage style barrel mount. and shoots 1 " groups at 100yrds. For a new gun it just cant be beat for the performance price ratio.

https://forums.cabelas.com/showthread.php?t=9553 There is the forum link if you want to read some.


Catch and release is no guarantee that the fish will live. Estimates range from 95 down to about 40% survival rate. This is of course assuming that the person(s) involved actually know how to properly catch and release a fish so that it will survive the encounter.

Most people who enjoy 'fishing', do not catch and release, case in point:

The poster being referenced indicated he had a prize fish mounted on his wall. The survival rate for that particular fish was zero. i.e. The fish was hunted, and killed.

Again, excluding catch and release, most fishing is just like hunting. The animal dies. Then again, without animals, and plants, humans would die. So I have no issues with anyone who fishes and hunts, and eats or doesn't eat the animals they catch or kill.

For human life to continue, death must occur regardless of whether it's animal, or plant life.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:39 pm

Deanjo wrote:
keltor wrote:I do have a pretty strong feeling that if it's not sport, you shouldn't be doing it.


I whole heartedly disagree. I'm a long time hunter and I believe that if you do it for "sport" it exemplifies everything that is wrong. I hunt(s)(ed) as a means to feed my family. I don't hunt for trophies, I use what I hunt to supplement feeding my family. Yes, I can afford to feed my family otherwise but what I take from the land I give back many times over. My land is a sanctuary for wildlife complete with feeding stations. I do not hunt on my own land but yet I could if I wish mow down many dozen deer for "sport" if I wished. I take what I can use and nothing more. You will not see one trophy on my wall except for the 8 pound northern pike that was my first fish ever caught.


Sorry English isn't my first language and I didn't mean "sport" in that way at all. I only mean in the aspect of the shooting. I only hunt 1 deer a season to make into jerky and sausage from the meat and sinew and leather from the rest. I generally sell off the rest to the processor, though I've been known to sell some of the bones to some artists for nothing.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:01 pm

I found a local dealer who sells Mosin-Nagant in a kit that includes a bayonet (a very lethal looking 17 inch blade), two old Soviet ammo pouches, a shoulder sling, and an odd looking metal container that looks like a miniature canteen with two mouths (for carrying oil/cleaning solvent?). Total price $150. The only problem was cleaning off the Cosmosline, which required many paper towels and much wiping. An hour later and I put a few rounds downrange. The 7.62x54R kick is fairly light; the rifle itself weighs in at nearly 9 lbs. It's dark outside so I couldn't judge accuracy yet, but it has a nice feel when you squeeze that trigger.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:24 pm

OsakaJ wrote:odd looking metal container that looks like a miniature canteen with two mouths (for carrying oil/cleaning solvent?)

:) Yes, that's for oil/lubricant. The one part with the letter "Щ" was used for "alkaline" and the one with letter "H" was used for "neutral" oil.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:49 pm

Be sure to clean out the chamber, muzzle, and bore at the end of each shooting day if you're firing cheap surplus ammo. 54R surplus ammo tends to be corrosively primed, which is what that "alkaline" stuff was meant to get rid of. A bit of diluted ammonia or Windex will do, then clean with Hoppe's #9 or similar when you're done.

Don't be surprised if the bolt starts binding up on you after several shots; it's a common problem with Mosins. Probably there's still some Cosmoline inside it, and it'll start flowing around & getting sticky once the bolt warms up. Also the sights were originally zeroed with the bayonet attached because of Soviet infantry doctrine that a soldier would always have his bayonet on the rifle when near the enemy. Thanks to how it's mounted this will affect the bullet's windage.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:25 pm

Enjoy your Mosin. As for saving a piece of history and not drilling for a scope mount, remember it was 150$ I would Use whatever scope mount you prefer. or gives you the best accuracy. I would ask your local gunsmith.

I have a side mounted scope on my lever action 30-30 Winchester. One good thing about them is it allows you to use the iron sights and keeps the shot/unshot shells from hitting the scope when ejecting rounds. But it has needed the most adjusting over the last 30 years my savage 110 30-06 and 250-3000 savage model 99 maybe 5 times in 30 years with both combined.

I think the savage model 99 is the best looking lever action gun ever made. Very sleek looking with a hammerless contored lever action back end with a bolt action front end and loading style so no tube under the barrel. Reduces weight. Perhaps thats why Charles Bronson used one in the movie Death Hunt. But that was based on a true story and the real guy used a model 99 also. Good old movie if you never seen it.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:05 am

Amazon's got a scout-style scope mount:

http://www.amazon.com/Brass-Stacker-MN9 ... B00847436S

IIRC "scout" rifles typically use pistol scopes or possibly purpose-designed scopes that have long eye relief and probably not much magnification. As a bonus you won't have to trade in your bolt for one with a turned-down handle.

There are some tricks you can use with a Mosin to improve accuracy. For instance you can cork the barrel:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm

I expect a gunsmith could give you a trigger job, or if you're brave you can replace the trigger bearing with a better aftermarket type.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:35 pm

vargis14 wrote:The 308 and 30-06 have almost identical trajectory's , muzzel velocity's and bullet drop. yes the 30-06 has a bigger brass case but the 308 is a more modern round, thus more powerful powder can be used thus a higher pressure chamber value then the 30-06.
I mostly agree. The .308 can match or exceed the 30-06 with light bullets, but the 30-06 owns the 175gr+ territory. Bigger case volume does matter, after all. :)
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:42 pm

bthylafh wrote:Don't be surprised if the bolt starts binding up on you after several shots; it's a common problem with Mosins. Probably there's still some Cosmoline inside it, and it'll start flowing around & getting sticky once the bolt warms up.
Alot of times this is not just baked on cosmo, but also comes from built up carbon from steel-cased ammo that doesn't fully seal off and causes gas blowback and fouling. Easy fix to this: squirt a bunch of Hoppe's into the empty chamber, chuck a cleaning rod into a drill with a bronze .30 cal chamber brush on the end, and go to town. :) I did this with my Ishevsk Russian M38 and my Polish M44, and they're smooth as silk now. I use brass reloadable cases now and the problem hasn't come back.

bthylafh wrote:Also the sights were originally zeroed with the bayonet attached because of Soviet infantry doctrine that a soldier would always have his bayonet on the rifle when near the enemy. Thanks to how it's mounted this will affect the bullet's windage.
I've heard this. Tried shooting my M44 with the bayonet fixed and then folded, and saw no appreciable difference in windage/elevation at 100 yards. Maybe it only becomes visible at longer distances, I dunno. YMMW. :)
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:32 pm

The Savage 110 is a lower cost alternative to the Remington 700 and will do right by you. My wife's rifle is a Savage 110 action and it is really nice. If you're really on a budget, I recommend going to the local pawn shop and browsing a bit. They usually have pretty good deals on rifles.

As to .308 vs .30-06 vs .270... I believe any of those will work for you. Is bullet deflection really that much of a concern when hunting at shorter ranges?
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:28 pm

The 110 I see listed now is 2500 bucks and for LEO onlny :o

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:42 pm

paulWTAMU wrote:The 110 I see listed now is 2500 bucks and for LEO onlny :o

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA

Look for Model 11/111. It's the same action in a much more cost-friendly stock. If you've got a Cabela's near you, it's $549 with a Nikon 3x9/40 scope and available in all the classic calibers.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:53 am

paulWTAMU wrote:The 110 I see listed now is 2500 bucks and for LEO onlny :o
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA
That's the sniper version and waaaaaay overkill for hunting deer in deep brush. My wife's custom Savage 110 was $850 and that had extensive work done to it.

There's a guy locally selling a Remington 700 in .270 with a 3x9 scope for $475. There was a Savage in .308 for slightly more, but I can't find the listing. There are definitely deals to be had out there.

Regarding scopes: I personally like Bushnell for decent glass at a decent price. I bought my last two scopes new from Optics Planet. Like rifles, you can find good deals on used scopes as well. Ebay is okay, but Gunbroker has an incredible selection.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:06 pm

There must be some central place to sell used guns to local markets that I just don't see. I mean, there's that gun auction site but then there's FFL fees and all that crap and I can't see it before I buy it. There's a FB group I'm part of it but it mostly sucks and has people wanting to unload total crap or really overpriced ARs.
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