Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

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Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:51 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1132539901

Has anyone seen anything about these new monitors? The led backlight is new, but this monitor has been around for a while with ccfl. Unless I hear something that holds me back, I'll let you guys know how it works out after it arrives.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:02 pm

I'm interested to see how it works out- for now, I'm holding off on monitors, partly because the market hasn't yet settled with the likes of inexpensive Korean-built high resolution units (with the 27" units hitting 120Hz, which is very appealing), and partly because we've seen just how inexpensively 4k monitors can be built; essentially +20% in net manufacturing cost, it seems.

And in either case, I'm going to need a graphics card(s) upgrade, and the cards I'd actually want to buy don't exist yet :).
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:31 am

Achieva have been doing LED backlights in their 1440p screens for a few years with no major issues.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:17 am

Please post a detailed review, thanks!
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:48 am

Airmantharp wrote:I'm interested to see how it works out- for now, I'm holding off on monitors, partly because the market hasn't yet settled with the likes of inexpensive Korean-built high resolution units (with the 27" units hitting 120Hz, which is very appealing), and partly because we've seen just how inexpensively 4k monitors can be built; essentially +20% in net manufacturing cost, it seems.
I've first-hand experience with one of these "120Hz" Korean IPS monitors, and let me tell you, the panel's response time BTB is nowhere near 8ms. I'm not sure it's even that far from 16ms, frankly, but put bluntly -- 120Hz on these monitors is a joke compared to a REAL 120Hz monitor like my VG248QE. Smearing and blurring are everywhere at 120Hz, and the colors are WACK.

Don't buy the hype, kiddies. 120Hz IPS isn't really here yet.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:36 pm

auxy wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:I'm interested to see how it works out- for now, I'm holding off on monitors, partly because the market hasn't yet settled with the likes of inexpensive Korean-built high resolution units (with the 27" units hitting 120Hz, which is very appealing), and partly because we've seen just how inexpensively 4k monitors can be built; essentially +20% in net manufacturing cost, it seems.
I've first-hand experience with one of these "120Hz" Korean IPS monitors, and let me tell you, the panel's response time BTB is nowhere near 8ms. I'm not sure it's even that far from 16ms, frankly, but put bluntly -- 120Hz on these monitors is a joke compared to a REAL 120Hz monitor like my VG248QE. Smearing and blurring are everywhere at 120Hz, and the colors are WACK.

Don't buy the hype, kiddies. 120Hz IPS isn't really here yet.

Did you measure it or is this purely anecdotal?
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:24 pm

Waco wrote:Did you measure it or is this purely anecdotal?
I measured it the only way I have available to me -- subjective comparison against a true 120Hz display, my VG248QE. They aren't even in the same ballpark for fluid motion, even without enabling LightBoost on the VG248QE. I'm talking about the same order of magnitude as the difference between 30fps and 60fps here; night and day, truly not even comparable.

The monitor in question was a YAMAKASI CATLEAP 2B. It's my girlfriend's display.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:27 pm

Interesting. Perhaps that's just a bad example (the response times on my X-Star are excellent)? I imagine the first company to come out with a lightboost-enabled 120 Hz IPS will take the market by storm.

EDIT: Mine won't do 120 Hz, but it does reliably do 96 Hz. It's a very big difference versus 60 Hz and there aren't any issues with color or smearing.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:35 pm

Waco wrote:Interesting. Perhaps that's just a bad example (the response times on my X-Star are excellent)? I imagine the first company to come out with a lightboost-enabled 120 Hz IPS will take the market by storm.

EDIT: Mine won't do 120 Hz, but it does reliably do 96 Hz. It's a very big difference versus 60 Hz and there aren't any issues with color or smearing.
I agree about the first lightboost-enabled 120hz IPS. I'll sell my little sister to get one! (This is a joke.)

The Catleap 2B was the first one of these Korean monitors to support overclocking, and motion is actually *better* at 60Hz than at 120Hz on her display; while it's not as smooth, you don't end up with the awful smearing and color (corruption?) issues. I tried to run hers at 90Hz and while the colors don't get messed up, it still seems pretty smear-y to me. My girlfriend likes it though, so I left it at 90Hz.

X-Star, huh? I'll have to look into them.

I wanted to add a note remarking that while fast motion is undoubtedly nicer on the VG248QE, especially with LightBoost, the picture on the CATLEAP is a clear upgrade from the fast TN panel in the VG248QE. I mean, duh, but lest someone call me a fangirl or zealot...
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:03 pm

It turns out the seller of this monitor was unable to tell me if there is backlight intensity control, so I am waiting this one out until someone can confirm there is control and that there is not noticeable flicker.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:26 pm

FWIW, I've had a Achieva Shimian QHD270-Lite for a little over a year. It's the 27" 2560x1440, 60hz. I mostly use it for a workstation purposes, but do play a few games every now and then maxed out max res 32AA etc - and I don't notice any ghosting or tearing. But with the Korean monitors you're probably playing a bit of a panel lottery, so you never know what you're gonna get. $650 seems steep to me, I got the 27" for $260 shipped a year ago.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:49 pm

just wanted to chime in and say that my x-star 1440p runs great at 96hz with no ghosting or color bleeding that i can detect. it is very close to working flawlessly at 120hz but i get a slight 1 pixel high blue line running the width of the monitor after about 10-15 minutes of gaming. there is a voltage regulator mod out there, but i don't think i am going to risk it at this point in time. way too happy with my $300 perfect pixel version to risk burning it out prematurely.

and that yamakasi catleap is not the same for overclocking as the x-star and qnix panels happen to be. did the catleap have multi-inputs? that's going to add latency and hurt response time. there was one very special version of the catleap that was stable up to around 100hz but the price became super inflated on them as it was only a certain early revision that would overclock successfully. since then the newer x-star and qnix panels with single dvi-d inputs have proved to be very decent overclockers. 96hz is pretty much guaranteed and the panel's response time is very fast if you go with the single input version. newer panels are popping up everyday so we will have to see if they continue to improve in this area.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:56 pm

ryko wrote:and that yamakasi catleap is not the same for overclocking as the x-star and qnix panels happen to be. did the catleap have multi-inputs? that's going to add latency and hurt response time. there was one very special version of the catleap that was stable up to around 100hz but the price became super inflated on them as it was only a certain early revision that would overclock successfully. since then, the newer x-star and qnix panels with single dvi-d inputs have proved to be very decent overclockers. 96hz is pretty much guaranteed and the panels response time is very fast if you go with the single input version. newer panels are popping up everyday so we will have to see if they continue to improve in this area.
No, it is the 2B model, with just a single DVI input. It is the early model you are talking about.

HorseIicious wrote:FWIW, I've had a Achieva Shimian QHD270-Lite for a little over a year. It's the 27" 2560x1440, 60hz. I mostly use it for a workstation purposes, but do play a few games every now and then maxed out max res 32AA etc - and I don't notice any ghosting or tearing. But with the Korean monitors you're probably playing a bit of a panel lottery, so you never know what you're gonna get. $650 seems steep to me, I got the 27" for $260 shipped a year ago.

Yah, that makes sense; I don't see anything off on my girlfriend's monitor at 60Hz either. I actually recall reading that the panel used in those early Koreamonitors is an LG Display model rated at 8ms GTG, which makes sense given that IPS panels exhibit progressively worse pixel response as contrast increases.

I think we paid (well, she paid) $400 plus shipping for that display. She couldn't be happier with it; I find it slow and unresponsive compared to my VG248QE (and it's too dang big anyway, although she only uses the one display, versus my four.)
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:13 pm

As far as I know, none of those Korean IPS monitors actually have Displayport 1.2. I don't think anyone's really validated whether dual link DVI can properly handle the bandwidth that close to 4MP at 120Hz requires. Or it could just be that you're right and the ASIC (timing controllers) in the things can't handle 4MP at 120Hz.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:47 am

cynan wrote:As far as I know, none of those Korean IPS monitors actually have Displayport 1.2. I don't think anyone's really validated whether dual link DVI can properly handle the bandwidth that close to 4MP at 120Hz requires. Or it could just be that you're right and the ASIC (timing controllers) in the things can't handle 4MP at 120Hz.

It's questionable for sure. DVI single-link maxes out at 1920x1200 @ 60Hz (about 3.3Gbps, although a single DVI link is supposedly rated for 3.96Gbps), and while DVI-D is not actually limited by anything but the constraints of the copper it travels across, realistically, we're talking about 4MP @ 120Hz, which is ... 10.6Gbps. That's well over double a single-link!

I'll tell you what would drive acceptance of Thunderbolt in the wider market -- someone needs to make a relatively affordable 27" 2560x1600 8-bit IPS display that supports real 120Hz refresh (pixel response <8ms GTG) and a strobing backlight ala LightBoost, and then equip it only with a Thunderbolt connector. Ha! ('∀`)
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:34 am

If you want accurate pixel response/input-lag data on the QH300, you need to go here and here, I'm fairly certain that the Hazro is just a rebadged QH300-IPSMS with a different stand and (importantly) no OSD/Scaler.

The panel results seem to be the same at 8.7ms average response (good for ~115Hz) but without lightboost it's going to be pretty smeary at that frequency. Obviously, the scaler ruins the day with 24ms of additional lag.
My Achieva QH270 seems to handle about 92-93Hz but I run it at 85Hz (that's about 340MHz and my ASIC gives up at around 370MHz).
I'm pretty sure 300MHz is the limit of Single-link DVI, so in theory (allowing for the usual ~8% porch/overscan) you should be able to run 2560 x 1600 @ 135Mhz before you hit cable limitations. The ASIC is far more likely to be the limiting factor.

Let's face it though, at 2560x1600, you're going to really struggle to push games at 120fps, realistically I have to turn down AA and shader complexity with a couple of 7950's in current games running at 1440p just to ensure a steady 85Hz
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:51 am

The TFT Central review was of an entirely different panel. This one is made by LG and is LED backlit, where the one reviewed was CCFL. Unfortunately, that means we really don't have much data on it's performance.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:16 pm

Yep, I hear you - but with all the "Korean 27" 1440p" models, there are many different variants but the panel and its driving electronics (not to be confused with the scalers & OSDs on some models) are identical.

They are all manufacturered by LG - and the different variants of the LM270WQ panel (as famously used in the 27" iMac) simply relate to the backlighting, the type of AG coating/filter used, and whether the driving electronics use FRC or not:
http://www.panelook.com/sizmodlist.php? ... desc&sizes[]=27.0&resolution_pixels=25601440 (can't link that as it contains a non-phpBB-compatible URL)

Given that there are similarly few options for the 30" H-IPS panels, you have to assume that they're all going to perform as closely as the 27" variants do to each other, meaning that all reviews are going to be close enough to consider as valid - at least in terms of panel behaviour:
http://www.panelook.com/sizmodlist.php? ... te=1&sizes[]=30.0&brand_family=LGD&resolution_pixels=25601600&production_state=-1 (can't link directly to that either)

I could be completely wrong, but I've never read a review of any of these Korean screens and seen deviation that can't be explained by scaler/osd/backlight/AG coating.
The actual characteristics you're worried about are the same as long as it's a model using the expected LG panel type.

Edit
Yeah - this only applies to IPS panels. PLS is Samsung only - used by QNIX and X-Star only, I believe.
Last edited by Chrispy_ on Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:20 pm

Mine is a Samsung panel, not LG.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:01 pm

Waco wrote:Mine is a Samsung panel, not LG.


That's horrific, I'd send it back if it isn't IPS.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:08 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Waco wrote:Mine is a Samsung panel, not LG.


That's horrific, I'd send it back if it isn't IPS.

What do you have against PLS?
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:35 pm

auxy wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
Waco wrote:Mine is a Samsung panel, not LG.


That's horrific, I'd send it back if it isn't IPS.

What do you have against PLS?


It's inferior to IPS in every implementation so far, especially in Samsung's own panels. It maintains the single *VA advantage, which is dark blacks, but not necessarily more 'accurate' contrast, where dark grey gradients are distinguishable.

In every implementation I've seen, mirroring S-PVA exactly, the pre-charging necessary to keep the pixel response in check resulted in the same input lag penalty. Go figure, Samsung.

I was hoping that the technology would be more of a compromise towards the MVA panels- but I've yet to see any evidence that it's much of an improvement over S-PVA, which while effective for video, was/is inferior for gaming and color critical work, both of which are important to me.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:38 pm

Airmantharp wrote:It's inferior to IPS in every implementation so far, especially in Samsung's own panels. It maintains the single *VA advantage, which is dark blacks, but not necessarily more 'accurate' contrast, where dark grey gradients are distinguishable.

In every implementation I've seen, mirroring S-PVA exactly, the pre-charging necessary to keep the pixel response in check resulted in the same input lag penalty. Go figure, Samsung.

I was hoping that the technology would be more of a compromise towards the MVA panels- but I've yet to see any evidence that it's much of an improvement over S-PVA, which while effective for video, was/is inferior for gaming and color critical work, both of which are important to me.

I think you're confusing PLS with PVA. PLS is Plane Line Switching, and is basically Samsung's version of IPS. It's not related to Vertical Alignment monitors at all.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:49 pm

auxy wrote:I think you're confusing PLS with PVA. PLS is Plane Line Switching, and is basically Samsung's version of IPS. It's not related to Vertical Alignment monitors at all.


I think I've done quite a bit of research on it, and found monitors using PLS panels to perform quite similarly to S-PVA, with the primary detriment being the input lag. It sucked in S-PVA, and it sucks in PLS. Colors are better, sure, as are viewing angles- but I already have an accurate monitor with wide viewing angles AND no input lag. Go Samsung.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:02 pm

PLS seems decent to me, although this particular model is pricey.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/sam ... 7b970d.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_pb278q.htm

edit - and here is a review of a 27" achieva shiman
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/ach ... zero-g.htm
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:29 pm

anotherengineer wrote:PLS seems decent to me, although this particular model is pricey.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/sam ... 7b970d.htm
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_pb278q.htm

edit - and here is a review of a 27" achieva shiman
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/ach ... zero-g.htm

Yea, both of these PLS models have a pretty average input lag (especially Asus model)... It's actually better than the Achieva display and should be perfectly acceptable for most of PC gamers, especially the ones who play casual, slow games like the CoD series or games where plenty of third-party programs available to help casual users to compensate for ANY kind of lag, like the BF series :wink:
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:42 pm

Just digging into the ASUS PLS review, you can note that they recommend the 'motion compensation' setting to be set at 100 for best input lag results- but that it be set at 40 to prevent pre-charge 'overshoot'. Good fun there, and basically confirms what I was worried about above- like S-PVA, the panel either needs input-lag inducing processing to keep the relatively slow pixel response in check, or you deal with the slower pixel response to lower input lag. Catch 22, so I'll repeat, go Samsung!
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:46 am

Airmantharp wrote:Just digging into the ASUS PLS review, you can note that they recommend the 'motion compensation' setting to be set at 100 for best input lag results- but that it be set at 40 to prevent pre-charge 'overshoot'. Good fun there, and basically confirms what I was worried about above- like S-PVA, the panel either needs input-lag inducing processing to keep the relatively slow pixel response in check, or you deal with the slower pixel response to lower input lag. Catch 22, so I'll repeat, go Samsung!

Assuming the lag is from the panel and not the scaler / hardware seems to be jumping the gun a bit.


My X-Star has no scaler, no OSD, no nothing. Response times are extremely quick to my eye though I don't have anything to measure them quantifiably and there is little to no blurring with fast-moving scenes.
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:00 pm

Rough estimate of combined input lag

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803/7
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Re: Achieva Shimian QH300-IPSMS LED 2560x1600

Postposted on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:44 pm

anotherengineer wrote:Rough estimate of combined input lag

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803/7


That article sums up the situation pretty well, as old as it is. But for PLS, the question remains in finding a balance between pixel response and input lag that's suitable for gaming while not being a detriment to other uses. The pixel response issue certainly doesn't preclude the use of PLS panels for any particular purpose, but it does preclude broad recommendations for Samsung's current IPS competitor for either gaming or color critical work- the latter an issue due to uniformity issues that continue to plague monitors shipping with these panels.

So it's not that PLS is a bad technology; to the contrary, it's a definite improvement over Samsung's S-PVA panels, and remains far superior to TN panel technology. But it's a premium competitor to IPS, compared to which it remains an inferior compromise for many critical applications.

Show me a PLS monitor that can exceed the performance of competing IPS monitors- please! Competition is good for everyone.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|24/2.8 IS USM|
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