Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

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Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:58 pm

'Fast & Furious' star Paul Walker killed in car crash

He and his friend were driving a Porsche Carrera GT - a model which is known for poor stability (and which was involved in lawsuit related to occupant's deaths in the past). His friend lost control, car hit the tree, broke in half and ignited...


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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:15 pm

http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/11/30/1130 ... book-3.jpg

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:25 pm

I only saw 3 of his movies (the first two "Fast and Furious" and one other movie) and didn't mind him as an actor.

But I guess if you're going to go out, that's probably one of the "better ways". And it's exactly the way his "Fast and Furious" character would want to go out.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:42 pm

Captain Ned wrote:http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/11/30/1130-paul-walker-accident-scene-car-facebook-3.jpg

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.


Both the driver and Paul Walker had significant experience in racing. This was a tragic accident and It's disgusting people like you feel the need to disparage the dead.
Last edited by slowriot on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:43 pm

RIP Paul, he was great overall guy and a true automotive enthusiast. Got an entire generation interested in the automotive world.

Captain Ned wrote:http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/11/30/1130-paul-walker-accident-scene-car-facebook-3.jpg

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.


Unqualified would not really be the term to use here, as the driver Roger Rodas, was a professional driver previous raced Porsche Cup cars and was most recent working with Ford Mustang Boss for the Pirelli World Challenge. Both Paul and Roger were not amateur drivers. I agree with JohnC in the fact that the CGT is a one of the hardest cars to drive. Have not driven one personally but seen many times on track days and talked to drivers. The car is a pure bred race car that meets DOT requirements, so it's street legal. JohnC, do you think that the "snap" oversteer associated with the CGT played a part of the accident? Either way two men lost their lives and I will miss PW. May he RIP.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:22 pm

Captain Ned wrote:http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/11/30/1130-paul-walker-accident-scene-car-facebook-3.jpg

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.


Maybe you should moderate out your own comment
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:23 pm

NeelyCam wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/11/30/1130-paul-walker-accident-scene-car-facebook-3.jpg

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.


Maybe you should moderate out your own comment

why?
What he said was absolutely true. His friend killed Paul and himself. If only Paul had died, this would be a case of manslaughter.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:28 pm

NeelyCam wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/11/30/1130-paul-walker-accident-scene-car-facebook-3.jpg

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.


Maybe you should moderate out your own comment

They made the decision to play boy racer in a public area (an office park), putting who knows how many others at risk. A responsible, qualified, professional driver would not have made that decision in that car in that place. The office park was posted for 45 MPH. Given the picture of the wreckage I think one can easily make the terminal velocity well into the triple digits.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:14 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
NeelyCam wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/11/30/1130-paul-walker-accident-scene-car-facebook-3.jpg

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.


Maybe you should moderate out your own comment

They made the decision to play boy racer in a public area (an office park), putting who knows how many others at risk. A responsible, qualified, professional driver would not have made that decision in that car in that place. The office park was posted for 45 MPH. Given the picture of the wreckage I think one can easily make the terminal velocity well into the triple digits.


I think the point was that the driver wasn't unqualified.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:14 pm

Captain Ned wrote:This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.

Captain Ned wrote:A responsible, qualified, professional driver would not have made that decision in that car in that place

:roll: Oh look, yet another insight from an armchair "expert of human behavior"...
No "qualification" will provide a 100% guarantee against making a "judgement error". Doesn't matter what type of "certification" you have and how many hours of "experience" you have. Here is one perfect proof of that. And here is the other. And there are 100's more, in almost every professional field.

People make mistakes and they WILL continue making it (until all of their tasks will be replaced by robots) and heavily berating them in public for that (especially the dead ones) won't quite make it easier for their relatives and is not quite a socially acceptable behavior in most civilized societies. In other words, "De mortuis nihil nisi bonum".
Last edited by JohnC on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:21 pm

JohnC wrote: :roll: Oh look, yet another insight from an armchair "expert of human behavior"...
No "qualification" will provide a 100% guarantee against making a "judgement error". Doesn't matter what type of "certification" you have and how many hours of "experience" you have. Here is one perfect proof of that. And here is the other. And there are 100's more, in almost every professional field.

People make mistakes and they will continue making it and heavily berating them for that (especially the dead ones) won't quite make it easier for their relatives and is not quite a socially acceptable behavior in most civilized societies. In other words, "De mortuis nihil nisi bonum".

:roll: The speed limit was 45mph. They were not going 45mph. They were breaking the law and putting others in danger as well.
Your arguments don't even make any sense.

People will not learn from others mistakes if they continue to blindly ignore the reasons for the others mistakes.
Last edited by danny e. on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:24 pm

And people from my links in previous post were not "breaking" the rules? :roll: LOLz, you people don't even attempt to read what I meant to write, you only understand what YOU want to understand... Screw this.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:28 pm

JohnC wrote:And people from my links in previous post were not "breaking" the rules? :roll: LOLz, you people don't even attempt to read what I meant to write, you only understand what YOU want to understand... Screw this.

The pilots breaking the rules on the Aeroflot Flight were idiots as well and it's sad that they killed many people in the process of breaking the rules.

Whatever argument you were trying to make failed.
It's sad whenever people kill others due to negligence. Just because it happens doesn't make it less tragic and idiotic.

People wont learn if you ignore the reasons for the tragedy.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:57 pm

Seems to me the only real difference between this and the typical "Darwin Award" is that these guys were rich and famous.

Yes, it is tragic when anyone dies unexpectedly, and my condolences go to their families. However, it also appears that they died doing something monumentally stupid. We are fortunate they didn't take anyone else with them.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:16 pm

Trying to work through a bit of a Bro Crush here, John C.?

If you play with these kinds of toys at high speeds in unapproved areas, these things will happen. If it had been a track accident, it would have been tragic. Since it happened in an office park, it was tragic and stupid. It is hardly disrespectful to the dead to point out that their deaths should be a lesson to the living regarding the "stupid" aspect.

Speaking as someone who took a few young adult male risks involving vehicles, and thankfully has (so far) lived to see that some of them were unnecessary and stupid. Based on his posting history, I expect the Cap is speaking from similar perspective.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:01 pm

many years ago my boss used to give me a hard time for riding the motorcycle so fast.

he was certain I was destined to die on it if I didn't cool it. "I had 2 friends that crashed doing 80mph and the driveshaft (or a part of it) went through one of them." (both died) he then went on to say "you think they would have done that had they known it was going to happen?" ok, of course not. few want to die, my response was "sure but had they gotten away without crashing do you believe they would have slowed down or done it again?" and again the answer is of course they would have done it again.

I don't believe their is a person in this forum or on this planet that hasn't exceeded the speed limit on public roads, that hasn't rolled through a stop sign when you were supposed to come to a complete stop, someone that hasn't had a "close call" due to a moments distraction.....these things happen, mistakes are made, surviving them is a part of how we learn wisdom.

Paul & friend are dead and I'm not endorsing what they did but they died because they were behaving at the time like idiots which doesn't make them idiots. feel free to insult the action but without knowing not so much the individual.
If you play with these kinds of toys at high speeds in unapproved areas, these things will happen. If it had been a track accident, it would have been tragic. Since it happened in an office park, it was tragic and stupid. It is hardly disrespectful to the dead to point out that their deaths should be a lesson to the living regarding the "stupid" aspect.

these things can happen anywhere and with any kind of toy.... I was at the track when a Kawasaki's throttle cable broke leaving the rider coasting down the back straight, a GSXR hit him at 125mph, it was devastating. one dead the other broken, the rear rim on the Kawasaki was shattered into so many little pieces no more than a foot long. didn't know the riders.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:02 pm

JohnC wrote:'Fast & Furious' star Paul Walker killed in car crash

He and his friend were driving a Porsche Carrera GT - a model which is known for poor stability (and which was involved in lawsuit related to occupant's deaths in the past). His friend lost control, car hit the tree, broke in half and ignited...


Your citation does not support your argument. Porsche paid out 8% of a $4.5M claim.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:06 pm

clone wrote:many years ago my boss used to give me a hard time for riding the motorcycle so fast.

he was certain I was destined to die on it if I didn't cool it. "I had 2 friends that crashed doing 80mph and the driveshaft (or a part of it) went through one of them." (both died) he then went on to say "you think they would have done that had they known it was going to happen?" ok, of course not. few want to die, my response was "sure but had they gotten away without crashing do you believe they would have slowed down or done it again?" and again the answer is of course they would have done it again.

I don't believe their is a person in this forum or on this planet that hasn't exceeded the speed limit on public roads, that hasn't rolled through a stop sign when you were supposed to come to a complete stop, someone that hasn't had a "close call" due to a moments distraction.....these things happen, mistakes are made, surviving them is a part of how we learn wisdom.

Paul & friend are dead and I'm not endorsing what they did but they died because they were behaving at the time like idiots which doesn't make them idiots. feel free to insult the action but without knowing not so much the individual.
If you play with these kinds of toys at high speeds in unapproved areas, these things will happen. If it had been a track accident, it would have been tragic. Since it happened in an office park, it was tragic and stupid. It is hardly disrespectful to the dead to point out that their deaths should be a lesson to the living regarding the "stupid" aspect.
these things can happen anywhere and with any kind of toy.... I was at the track when a Kawasaki's throttle cable broke leaving the rider coasting down the back straight, a GSXR hit him at 125mph, it was devastating. one dead the other broken, the rear rim on the Kawasaki was shattered into so many little pieces no more than a foot long. didn't know the riders.


Post of the year.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:08 pm

just brew it! wrote:Seems to me the only real difference between this and the typical "Darwin Award" is that these guys were rich and famous.


http://www.christiantoday.com/article/p ... /34890.htm


Paul Walker was the founder of charity Reach Out WorldWide.

...

Paul Walker took a simple idea and made it a reality by creating Reach Out WorldWide (ROWW). Four years later Reach Out WorldWide has evolved into something special.

Reach Out WorldWide is a network of professionals with first responder skills, including doctors, nurses, firefighters, paramedics, construction specialists, heavy equipment operators, and other disaster-survival specialists, who understand that a fast response makes the difference between life and death. These professionals have put their "boots on the ground" domestically and worldwide, to immediately fulfill the unmet need in times of chaos, tragedy, and destruction.

"Paul wasn't someone who would just write a check and lend his name to an organization; he was the heart and soul of Reach Out WorldWide. Paul was the first one in and the last one out, he led by example and his hard work and dedication inspired everyone who had the privilege of working with him. He led one of the first teams into the hardest hit areas of Haiti and traveled to Chili to bring water, medical aid and hope after the Earthquake and Tsunami. He ran a chainsaw clearing debris and helping people get back into their homes during the hottest days after the tornadoes in Alabama... Some people play a hero, Paul was a hero. Paul was an honorable, hardworking, dedicated, respectful man with a humble spirit who shared his blessings with those who needed it most. It was an honor and a privilege to be able to work with, learn and look up to someone who walked the walk." - JD Dorfman, Reach Out Worldwide
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:13 pm

dltd.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:29 pm

ludi wrote:Speaking as someone who took a few young adult male risks involving vehicles, and thankfully has (so far) lived to see that some of them were unnecessary and stupid. Based on his posting history, I expect the Cap is speaking from similar perspective.

Yep. Jeep CJ-5 and 90 MPH is a Bad IdeaTM.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:44 pm

@Yeats - Sounds like he was a genuinely wonderful person who was making a real difference. What a senseless, stupid waste to have his life end like this.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:07 pm

Captain Ned wrote:The office park was posted for 45 MPH. Given the picture of the wreckage I think one can easily make the terminal velocity well into the triple digits.


According to this article, the police say they were travelling 40-45 mph when they crashed. Apparently they came to a bend where the speed limit dropped to 15 mph.

http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/paul-walker-was-real-hero-daughter-heart-soul-his-charity-2D11683842
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:23 pm

astrotech66 wrote:According to this article, the police say they were travelling 40-45 mph when they crashed. Apparently they came to a bend where the speed limit dropped to 15 mph.

http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/paul-walker-was-real-hero-daughter-heart-soul-his-charity-2D11683842


What do facts matter? Captain Ned's first post clearly indicated he knew nothing about the incident and yet felt it necessary to disparage the dead anyway. Even worse is those backing up that type of behavior. Is it really that crazy to not belittle someone who died in an incident you know virtually nothing about? I don't think it is and frankly I'm disgusted it seems to be encouraged in this thread.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:07 pm

JohnC wrote:
People make mistakes and they WILL continue making it (until all of their tasks will be replaced by robots)


but robots will still fail because they are made/programmed by humans, if humans were perfect we'd only have one operating system that wouldn't fail
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:46 pm

astrotech66 wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:The office park was posted for 45 MPH. Given the picture of the wreckage I think one can easily make the terminal velocity well into the triple digits.


According to this article, the police say they were travelling 40-45 mph when they crashed. Apparently they came to a bend where the speed limit dropped to 15 mph.

http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/paul-walker-was-real-hero-daughter-heart-soul-his-charity-2D11683842


Ehhhhhh. Not defending anything or taking sides and I agree this is sad that it happened (especially due to his daughter being so young). However, I find it pretty hard to believe that they were doing the speed limit. I looked at quite a bit of photos and a video right after the crash when I first heard of this and the car was demolished prior to the fire completely destroying it. Also there were chunks of the curb missing and they went through a metal pole and then a small tree.

I had a not so similar accident in a rental a few years ago. I was being stupid and gassed it through an icy corner for fun. I would do this all the time in my car as I knew what it was capable of, why in the world I did it in a car I was unfamiliar with I still don't know. Anyways, it was a freeway exit that I was doing around 40 on so I hit the curb at about the same speed. Demolished the rim, front bumper and bent the axle. The curb had a small chunk out of it the size of a golf ball. Incredibly stupid decision, one of the reasons I don't do stuff like that anymore even in my own car.

I have a few other stories where I was a passenger (car club), but again they involve livestock/trees and totally different cars.

Now obviously I have no idea how their car would react in an accident, maybe it's supposed to split in two in a low speed crash.. I can't see a crash like that incapacitating both people either. I can't make a claim as to the actual speed but I think Captain Ned is right that it was a speed that far exceeded the limit. Maybe I'm wrong, not a crash expert and I don't know anything about the car they were driving. I've been in a handful of accidents as a passenger doing all sorts of speeds and I've never seen anything like what the video/pictures show. They were doing ~45 around a 15MPH corner and that happened?
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:49 pm

slowriot wrote:What do facts matter? Captain Ned's first post clearly indicated he knew nothing about the incident and yet felt it necessary to disparage the dead anyway.

Given the pictures of the wreckage, IMO it was reasonable to assume that excessive speed was involved. Low to moderate speed crashes usually don't result in infernos that burn the vehicle occupants' bodies beyond recognition. It now appears that this incident may have been a tragic exception.

slowriot wrote:Even worse is those backing up that type of behavior. Is it really that crazy to not belittle someone who died in an incident you know virtually nothing about? I don't think it is and frankly I'm disgusted it seems to be encouraged in this thread.

There were other reports earlier today that they may have been drag racing. At this point nothing is certain.

Attempting to take a 15 MPH turn at 45 MPH in a car known for poor handling is still a pretty lousy judgement call. But if that version of events is confirmed I'll acknowledge that I went overboard in calling it a Darwin Award-worthy event.

Edit: OK, looks like they've ruled out the drag racing angle. But most of the news reports are still saying that witnesses claim the car was traveling at "high" speed.

Edit 2: From someone who knew the driver:
NY Daily News wrote:“If I had to guess, I'd say [Roger] put his foot into it just to feel the power a little bit, and the car did something unnatural,” the race team source said. “It was a nervous, twitchy car, and I really believe Roger's last thought was: 'What just happened?’”

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... -1.1535394
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:07 pm

i'll wait for the final police report, check them street cameras and check skid marks, from the cell video i couldn't tell, except for debris
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:37 pm

Well, there is a security camera showing the wreck...and it happens real fast.

Any crash looks fast from a fixed point...but I think it is credible to assume that they were going in excess of 45. :wink:

Background:

I went airborne in a 69 Ford at 120mph and lived.

So, I don't think anyone is a saint here. However, when you have a car that can accelerate from 20mph to 100mph in a couple of seconds...a 15mph curve is certainly not the issue.

My point:

I have a 16 year old son...what I point out is that a second of recklessness, a few seconds of thrills is not worth the irrevocable, the permanence, the consequences that cannot be avoided or rescinded.

Many of us have been in the situation...it seems like a lark at the time.

Yes, while you can affirm the life and the person...you have a responsibility to coldly judge the actions that lead to the incident. :wink:
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:02 am

I liked him best in "Into the Blue", which caught my interest initially due to Ms. Alba.

I found this speculation interesting:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Car-in-W ... 5271.shtml
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