Something's dying... gasp...

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Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:04 pm

Hey

Before anything here's my computer's specs:
- CPU: Intel Core i5 2500k
- Memory: 16GB Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9
- Motherboard: Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z
- HDD: 1TB Samsung 7200RPM
- SSD: Intel X25-M 80GB / Intel SSD 311 20GB
- PSU: Corsair TX850
- GPU: EVGA GTX570HD
- Case: Silverstone TJ08
- Cooling: Corsair H80 / Thermalright Shaman

Ok now here's what's going on. After three years of happy gaming with my GTX570HD I started getting BSODs/ lockups after a few minutes of gaming. It was like this... one day everything was 100% and I played about 3 hours non stop TF2. The next day crashes within minutes. A quick trip to the event viewer revealed driver was crashing so I did a clean driver install and retried. Same thing. Crashes.

I took out the card, installed it in another box and the same happened, crashes within a minute in Bioshock so I guessed card was going bad. I had a spare GTX650ti lying around so I swapped that in and it was all good.. at least I thought so. I was using that for about a month. (I live in Ecuador, I already have a GTX770 on the way but it takes some time to import)

The steam sale came forth and I bought some games so I had some extended gaming sessions. I was impressed about the 650ti... it was slower but no big deal it did work. The lockups came back... within an hour of bioshock infinite... I thought maybe it was just this once, fired Far Cry 3 and it crashed before the eternal initial sequence was over (just after the checkpoint).

I already tested with OCCT overnight and my overclock seems fine... Didn't have time for a 24h test. I also ran memtest+ overnight and the memory is alright. I ran OCCT CPU test on the video card for 2 hours with no issues but gaming still crashes my rig... it's weird..
I was thinking it might be the PSU, after all I've tested all the components isolated but not all of them at once but I don't really know how to test if my PSU is going bad.

The last thing I added to the rig is the X25-M, it's a bit old and it was on another PC but it's fine and anyway nothing is stored there.

Help please, I already have that 770 on the way but I fear the crashing will continue...
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:07 pm

I forgot to add... I checked temps. CPU doesn't get over 65c in OCCT, GPU never goes beyond 70c...
I hate this... it's so much easier when stuff burns!! (but I'm broke now so I hope it won't)

Also... I game at 2560x1440, it's a bit too much for the card but I don't think that would be a reason for it to be crashing right?
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:45 pm

fr500 wrote:I forgot to add... I checked temps. CPU doesn't get over 65c in OCCT, GPU never goes beyond 70c...
I hate this... it's so much easier when stuff burns!! (but I'm broke now so I hope it won't)

Also... I game at 2560x1440, it's a bit too much for the card but I don't think that would be a reason for it to be crashing right?


Just to continue debugging, try to downclock your memory and see what happens..?
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:18 am

I'll try with both mem/CPU at stocks speeds... Need to reproduce the crash with an unattended test first. I'm trying with crysis 2 looped indifinitely
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:21 am

Any clean OS install? I didn't see that as one of your steps.

Also are you using a UPS, specifically an AVR UPS that cleans the power?
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:27 am

In did one about 4 months ago and I have nothing but games in this box so I shouldn't need one... I'll try too in another drive I guess. Might have to wait for the weekend for that one though :-?
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:31 am

Inspect the motherboard and check for any obvious damage or damaged capacitors, and check for any slight bulging. For checking the PSU you would need a accurate multimeter and test to see if the voltage drops when the system is under load and to see if the voltage is within specs. Also if you know some one that has an oscilloscope you can check the AC ripple current to see if its still within specs.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:45 am

Might want to try lowering the resolution too. Wouldn't hurt to try.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:10 am

CB5000 wrote:Inspect the motherboard and check for any obvious damage or damaged capacitors, and check for any slight bulging. For checking the PSU you would need a accurate multimeter and test to see if the voltage drops when the system is under load and to see if the voltage is within specs. Also if you know some one that has an oscilloscope you can check the AC ripple current to see if its still within specs.


Visual inspection revealed no issues.. multimeter could be doable I guess but I'd have to have some multimeter that logs voltages or something??.... or woud just checking at the time it locks up suffice? the rest is... overkill I think
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:11 am

jihadjoe wrote:Might want to try lowering the resolution too. Wouldn't hurt to try.


Yeah I'll play at 1080p tomorrow just in case... if it's stable over 2/3 hours it might be good enough I guess.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:57 am

Since you mentioned you tried the video card in another rig and it crashed again due to the drivers i would suggest you read upon TDRs.

For troubleshooting try rolling back to an older driver version. If you don't remember which one was stable then try 295.73 and test using the GTX 570.

Note that you are not alone, there are a lot of people that are experiencing this problem it's just that the reasons why the TDRs happen vary a lot.

nvidia did not recognize it as being their issue, maybe the reference design works fine and it could be a problem caused by their partners. Personally i'd advise anyone to steer away from nvidia products for a generation or two until they fix their problems but it could also be a bias on my part, maybe the percentage of cards that are defective is not that big, it just seems big because nvidia sold more of them than AMD.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:09 am

Roll back to the drivers you find in your card brand site. I had a MSI 560ti which gave me problems with the latest nvidia drivers, although it worked fine with the drivers provided from MSI.

Also, do you have a overclocked CPU? I had mine OC to 4.3 and it passed all test I could imagine, there was this one game which crashed, World of Tanks. All other apps and games ran fine... So your overclock could not be stable...
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:40 am

It sounds similar to what I experienced when my X25-M failed, sporadic lockups and crashes. The SMART data was fine but when I ran the Full Disk Scan in Intel SSD Toolbox the PC crashed at around 70%. You should definitely run that scan on your SSDs if you haven't already.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:20 am

Thanks for all your suggestions, I'll try all of thatin the weekend.

As a note, I ran crysis 2 benches all night without a single crash at the highest settings. It's not the same since the benchmark closes and restarts crysis once every 3 runs. The only change I made is the case was open. I think it might be heat buildup since the last time it crashed the chipset heatsink was quite hot. I'll try to play with the lid on today to see if it makes any difference.

The 570 seems toast to me but I'll retry with older drivers if I have the time. The 650ti crashing worries me more since... well it's new and might mean something else is dying.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:58 pm

puppetworx wrote:It sounds similar to what I experienced when my X25-M failed, sporadic lockups and crashes. The SMART data was fine but when I ran the Full Disk Scan in Intel SSD Toolbox the PC crashed at around 70%. You should definitely run that scan on your SSDs if you haven't already.


Tested, passed with flying colors but thanks!
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:02 pm

Arclight wrote:Since you mentioned you tried the video card in another rig and it crashed again due to the drivers i would suggest you read upon TDRs.

For troubleshooting try rolling back to an older driver version. If you don't remember which one was stable then try 295.73 and test using the GTX 570.

Note that you are not alone, there are a lot of people that are experiencing this problem it's just that the reasons why the TDRs happen vary a lot.

nvidia did not recognize it as being their issue, maybe the reference design works fine and it could be a problem caused by their partners. Personally i'd advise anyone to steer away from nvidia products for a generation or two until they fix their problems but it could also be a bias on my part, maybe the percentage of cards that are defective is not that big, it just seems big because nvidia sold more of them than AMD.


I think that did it... Increased the TDR timeout value and played for 2 hours non stop, let it idle ingame for 1 hour and then played another two hours and it never crashed. It was with the lid off so tomorrow I'll test again with the lid on, temps didn't seem any different but I think I might have a heat buildup issue too.

The 570 is toast though... it crashes within SECONDS even with the older drivers and it doesn't recover... actually I might have been misleading, it never recovered, I had these kind of crashes back then when one of my 8800GTXs was dying and you could "save it" by alt tabbing real quick when it seemed a crash was imminent... with the 570 it just black screens and locks up.

Thanks everyone
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:55 am

This might seem like a stupid question, but I see the acronym TDR dropped around here pretty often and have no idea what it means. Can somebody enlighten me?

Edit: GOOGLED IT! Timeout detection and recovery, it would seem.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:36 am

Aaaaaaaaand it crashed again but after a loooooong time. About 5 hours. There is some heat buildup in the chip set area. I should have got a blower type card for this case but I didn't. I'll have to work on the cooling before the 770 gets here.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:47 am

Glad you figured it out.

As a general rule, when you are troubleshooting, only change ONE THING at a time. By changing a bunch of things at once, you're more likely to fix an issue or change the situation, but then you also have NO IDEA what actually had the desired effect.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:44 pm

I have two GTX 780s and I eventually started having issues with #2. The variable was the build of up dust on the fins of the cooler on #2. It seemed crazy to me, but it was the factor. I eventually decided I'd pull it apart after someone suggested the thermal pads might be off on it. That did turn out to be the case, and so I used MX-4 thermal compound and ended up doing it to #1 as well since my temps dropped almost 5C.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:40 pm

maybe the case that you have doesnt have enough airflow? that micro atx case seems to have enough slots for only 2 case fans. If you are using low speed low noise fans ~1000rpm, it would be better with a case that has 2 front, back and top fans for a total of 6. a large side fan never hurts either. Also in my experience, slight negative air pressure inside seems to improve cooling rather than positive pressure. im not sure if you can check the vram temps, but a lot of times when the video card crashes with normal gpu temps, the vram temps may be too high. And it seems like when the vram temps are too high it usually means the case air flow is too slow.

other times the video card blows hot air on the chipset and causes that to overheat. the remedy for that would be better airflow.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:44 am

Could be the chipset or voltage regulators overheating. I'd drop down to stock clocks and voltages. At high graphical settings you're probably not seeing much benefit from OC'ing that CPU anyhow.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:03 pm

For the counterpart that most folks don't bother posting:

I decided to open up my 660 Ti and redo the paste recently because I hear a loud fan from the bottom of my case under heavy load....

Temps changed 0C, and the fins were pretty clean.

The loud noise was the fan in my PSU.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:48 pm

I believe someone else already suggested you check the PSU; but, I bet it's not up to handling the GPU load and/or is going bad. Sounds like the end result is a damaged card, since the card continues to have problems when you move it to another computers.
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Re: Something's dying... gasp...

Postposted on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:07 pm

Tried all of those, all is well with a GTX650 and just got my GTX770, I'm cleaning all my fans and dust filters to make sure everything goes well
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