BF4 Mantle Thread

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BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:58 pm

With no official word otherwise, BF4 Mantle should be arriving within 6 days. A BF4 Mantle thread seems in order.

No hard data yet so I suggest a harmless guessing game, the 290x vs. 780ti on BF4 Mantle based on HardOCP's apples to apples average frame rate difference between those two cards. This is the dead certain shootout HardOCP will go for first.

My guess, based purely on AMD's CTO saying the 290x will 'ridicule' Nvidia's Titan in BF4 Mantle is a 27% FPS difference, advantage 290x.

Whoever is closest get's a 'bloody well done'.

What is your guess?
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:09 pm

I'll toss my hat in the ring and say Mantle code will give a 40% boost over DirectX code. What advantage dose that translate to over the Titan and 780ti? I'm too lazy to calculate it as I'm stuffed with Christmas dinner, sweet potato pie, and homemade fudge.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:35 pm

I say 5-10% at GPU-limited settings; >30% for the likes of i3s/BD Quads at CPU-limited settings.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:05 pm

I'm GPU limited instead of CPU limited so I doubt I'll see more than 5%

I'll also predict a dash of extra instability.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:08 pm

IF it DOES show, then my money is on more crashes and bugs to fix across BOTH platforms as I continue to play BF3 for the next year til they DO get it all fixed and it's on sale for $19.99.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:08 pm

ChronoReverse wrote:I'll also predict a dash of extra instability.


Stability is something that I'm (ultimately) hoping for with Mantle- though I'm not quite sure if more variables are being taken out or added in.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:49 pm

With every single EA engineering dev pulled and reassigned to fix the bf4 mess all side projects are on a "no eta hold" ... You are not going to see mantle at all until late January. And since this is a patch.. And not a full bottom to top port.. It has already been mentioned by EA themselves is **20%** .. Or only 8-12ps improvement on the average kevari GPU putting it in thE LOW 40'S on the low graphics settings on a street level 1080p monitor.

People already getting 80+ fps will see greater gains but it will be on dedicated GPUs 280+ only and obviously wasted

People hoping to spend 400$ on amd hardware and play 1080p medium at 40fps WILL BE SORELY DISAPOINTED ASALREADY HINTED AT BY AMD.

Naturally we must wait for the release and review...

Mobile reply..
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:22 pm

maxxcool wrote: It has already been mentioned by EA themselves is **20%**

I'm only going to quote that part, because the Nixxes dev is not from EA. So no, EA said nothing of the sort.

Aside from the base perf boost, it also enables multi GPU setups with vastly different performance (I intend to test that with Kaveri and a 280X later.)

It's also worth noting no one has said whether that 20% will be across the board, more towards the minimum FPS than the maximum, or what.

The low end will benefit, but the mid range should be massively improved.
Last edited by Savyg on Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:35 pm

blightymate wrote:With no official word otherwise, BF4 Mantle should be arriving within 6 days.

They did say all expansions were put on hold for fixing things, but they never specifically called this an expansion. So though I can't say either way my best guess is they're on holiday and it's been pushed to mid January.

I'm wondering if they'll push out higher detail levels to show Mantles strengths in the port...and if so, whether it'll be at launch or added in later.

I'd rather have Need for Speed: Rivals' Mantle version, myself. But it doesn't matter to me until I (probably) get the 280X in February.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:41 am

Savyg wrote:
maxxcool wrote: It has already been mentioned by EA themselves is **20%**

I'm only going to quote that part, because the Nixxes dev is not from EA. So no, EA said nothing of the sort.

Aside from the base perf boost, it also enables multi GPU setups with vastly different performance (I intend to test that with Kaveri and a 280X later.)

It's also worth noting no one has said whether that 20% will be across the board, more towards the minimum FPS than the maximum, or what.

The low end will benefit, but the mid range should be massively improved.


Garden Warfare might be the game to more fully showcase what can be done with a HSA capable APU and HSA capable GPU combo which I'm thinking is where the most intense future optimization and performance action will be.

As I recall that 20% figure was in relation to the difference in API efficiency, with Mantle using a fifth of the resources DX did which apparently should translate into a 20%+ increase in GPU performance. Pretty vague, but my take away from that is one can expect Mantle to deliver a minimum of 20% performance increase and a maximum potential increase well beyond that. Sufficiently beyond, even in it's initial implementation in BF4, to prompt AMD"s CTO, a senior executive position, in a post event Q&A to off the cuff use the term 'ridicule' when asked how the 290x would stack up against Nvidia's Titan in BF4 Mantle. While most posters tended to dismiss that as having little significance or was AMD propaganda, I consider it was telling as AMD has officially considerably downplayed what Mantle might provide performance wise and AMD senior execs aren't know for hyperbolic statements. The CTO would obviously be fully genned in on what was happening with the BF4 Mantle implementation and got sufficiently carried away with the enthusiasm that knowledge generated to carelessly let slip the initial term that come to mind when asked that question ... 'ridicule'.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:19 am

Savyg wrote:They did say all expansions were put on hold for fixing things, but they never specifically called this an expansion.

An expansion is something that makes them lots of money, and it's been delayed.

I'm willing to bet that an optimization patch that doesn't (directly) provide them with a single dollar will be very, very late.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:33 am

morphine wrote:
Savyg wrote:They did say all expansions were put on hold for fixing things, but they never specifically called this an expansion.

An expansion is something that makes them lots of money, and it's been delayed.

I'm willing to bet that an optimization patch that doesn't (directly) provide them with a single dollar will be very, very late.


A GPU13 slide said Mantle was being implemented primarily by an AMD team with assistance and feedback from DICE/Frostbite. AMD will want the patch available by CES.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:49 am

A GPU13 slide said Mantle was being implemented primarily by an AMD team with assistance and feedback from DICE/Frostbite.


Just imagine the level of histrionic outrage that we'd be hearing if Nvidia were to have its own developers basically rewriting the software for a major AAA game release to specifically target Nvidia hardware. If this is what is happening, then frankly I don't care if there is a 60 - 80% performance boost in BF4, I don't really think this is a good metric for judging if this whole Mantle circus is real or just a glorified tech demo.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:08 am

chuckula wrote:vel of histrionic outrage that we'd be hearing if Nvidia were to have its own developers basically rewriting the software for a major AAA game release to specifically target Nvidia hardware.

Sssshh be quiet. Speak no ill of AMD or support no pro-Nvidia idea, lest the rabid troll populace attack.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:34 am

morphine wrote:
chuckula wrote:vel of histrionic outrage that we'd be hearing if Nvidia were to have its own developers basically rewriting the software for a major AAA game release to specifically target Nvidia hardware.

Sssshh be quiet. Speak no ill of AMD or support no pro-Nvidia idea, lest the rabid troll populace attack.


clone sure has been quiet lately...
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:52 am

chuckula wrote:
A GPU13 slide said Mantle was being implemented primarily by an AMD team with assistance and feedback from DICE/Frostbite.


Just imagine the level of histrionic outrage that we'd be hearing if Nvidia were to have its own developers basically rewriting the software for a major AAA game release to specifically target Nvidia hardware. If this is what is happening, then frankly I don't care if there is a 60 - 80% performance boost in BF4, I don't really think this is a good metric for judging if this whole Mantle circus is real or just a glorified tech demo.


Guess we'll never know. Shame too as Mr. Andersson said he approached Nvidia with the same proposition that AMD ended up accepting and apparently JHH wasn't interested for some reason, possibly to do with already having PhysX, CUDA and NAVI in play (and maybe an ARM assisted Maxwell GPU in mind). Extremely short sighted as it turns out which, along with his decision to not compete for the consoles, put AMD in charge and all but paved a path of success for Mantle. With the hardware tie-in EA might have insisted on Nvidia collaborating with an also ready to play AMD even If Nvidia had initially signed on to such a project, but at least then Nvidia would have been at near par when such an API was released instead of now helplessly waiting for the performance delta axe to fall and able to join the Mantle party solely at AMD's discretion. You may not care if there's a 60-80% performance boost in BF4, I doubt that can be said for JHH and the employees of Nvidia. The bigger the performance delta, the less incentive AMD will have to open standard Mantle.

It would have been far better for gamers and the industry as a whole if Nvidia had stepped up to the plate and at least joined in if not taken the lead on such a project, that's for sure. It would have ensured a Mantle style API gaining instant wide acceptance across developers and publishers and ALL gamers with modern hardware able to immediately enjoy the performance gains of such an API on next gen games. That this isn't the case is TOTALLY on JHH's obdurate short sighted head.
Last edited by blightymate on Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:59 am

There was (is?) a joint effort very similar to like the one you described, called the PC Gaming Alliance. Didn't ever produce a thing.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:12 pm

morphine wrote:There was (is?) a joint effort very similar to like the one you described, called the PC Gaming Alliance. Didn't ever produce a thing.


According to Wikipedia, AMD is a current member, Nvidia is a 'former' member and Valve is neither. I also see it was announced in 2008 when PC gaming was at a nadir and there were endless articles about the demise of PC gaming.

Perhaps superflous now that Valve's Steam has eclipsed the need for such an organization on the PC gaming promotion side and AMD's Mantle is about to do the same on the PC standards side.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:38 am

I'll give it a go.

The 780ti beats the 290x by 13%. .
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:33 pm

So when/how is this Mantle patch getting rolled out? Did AMD ever give an ETA besides mid-late december? I've been really curious to see what kind of difference it makes. Will Techreport do a comparison article?
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:46 pm

Hz so good wrote:So when/how is this Mantle patch getting rolled out? Did AMD ever give an ETA besides mid-late december? I've been really curious to see what kind of difference it makes. Will Techreport do a comparison article?

AMD has no say in this, it is completely up to EA to implement this. And there is no ETA because EA are still busy working on making BF4 stable for majority of console/PC users and with preparing their legal department for the potential class action lawsuits related to this game. As such, you won't find any information about upcoming Mantle patch, not on here:
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/fo ... 683803785/
or even there:
https://twitter.com/repi
or anywhere else.

blightymate wrote:What is your guess?

My "guess" is that AMD will continue to waste money on hyping up the gimmicky, proprietary features which don't even work for majority of games, as well as on an army of highly incompetent online shills (both "official" and not), instead of trying to improve the gaming experience by spending money on features which are relevant to majority of past, present and future games (such as improving the driver performance for all DirectX/OpenGL-based games for all OSes, improving the power efficiency of their GPUs and improving the stock cooling solutions)... Which is kinda unfortunate (from a point of view of an actual owner of AMD's 290x card who does not get paid to promote AMD's products) but is still hilariously entertaining to read about :wink:
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:47 pm

JohnC wrote:AMD has no say in this, it is completely up to EA to implement this. And there is no ETA because EA are still busy working on making BF4 stable for majority of console/PC users and with preparing their legal department for the potential class action lawsuits related to this game. As such, you won't find any information about upcoming Mantle patch, not on here:
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/fo ... 683803785/
or even there:
https://twitter.com/repi
or anywhere else.


Well that's a shame, since BF4 was supposed to be a"showcase" for what Mantle could do. Do you know of any other titles that support Mantle that are imminent, so we can compare?
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:27 pm

chuckula wrote:
A GPU13 slide said Mantle was being implemented primarily by an AMD team with assistance and feedback from DICE/Frostbite.


Just imagine the level of histrionic outrage that we'd be hearing if Nvidia were to have its own developers basically rewriting the software for a major AAA game release to specifically target Nvidia hardware. If this is what is happening, then frankly I don't care if there is a 60 - 80% performance boost in BF4, I don't really think this is a good metric for judging if this whole Mantle circus is real or just a glorified tech demo.


Oh you mean like Gameworks and cough..phys-x ? :roll:

Hypocrites.

Can't wait to see you eat a bucket of humble pie when Mantle makes your NV cards look like integrated graphics. :wink:
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:34 pm

Fighterpilot wrote:
chuckula wrote:
A GPU13 slide said Mantle was being implemented primarily by an AMD team with assistance and feedback from DICE/Frostbite.


Just imagine the level of histrionic outrage that we'd be hearing if Nvidia were to have its own developers basically rewriting the software for a major AAA game release to specifically target Nvidia hardware. If this is what is happening, then frankly I don't care if there is a 60 - 80% performance boost in BF4, I don't really think this is a good metric for judging if this whole Mantle circus is real or just a glorified tech demo.


Oh you mean like Gameworks and cough..phys-x ? :roll:

Hypocrites.

Can't wait to see you eat a bucket of humble pie when Mantle makes your NV cards look like integrated graphics. :wink:


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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:44 pm

Which one of them... :P
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:56 pm

Aphasia wrote:Which one of them... :P


I'm just waiting for clone to show up so that the thread can descend into absolute nonsense :-p


(you'd think some of these people have AMD stock or something...)
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:07 pm

Airmantharp wrote:(you'd think some of these people have AMD stock or something...)

Probably worth something now, heh. This is the first time they've had anything really impressive to show in like six years.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:07 pm

JohnC wrote:AMD has no say in this, it is completely up to EA to implement this.

Dead wrong. An GPU13 slide stated Mantle was being implemented by an AMD team.

My "guess" is that AMD will continue to waste money on hyping up the gimmicky, proprietary features which don't even work for majority of games.


I'll believe several world class developers that see massive potential in Mantle and consider it worth implementing over your 'guess' it's gimmicky.
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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:21 pm

blightymate wrote:I'll believe several world class developers that see massive potential in Mantle and consider it worth implementing over your 'guess' it's gimmicky.


And the 'world class developer' that was supposed to premiere Mantle was told to shut up and color until they fix the game Mantle was supposed to release on, which is also based on the engine that's behind most of the games touting support for Mantle.

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Re: BF4 Mantle Thread

Postposted on Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:38 am

Why all the bickering? Geebus. Save it for after the show folks, there's nothing to even argue about yet.
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