New 4770K build, just delidded processor

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New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:01 pm

Hi all. So I just completed a build, and I have been rather unhappy with it. I was one of the unlucky ones that got a very poor overclocking 4770k. Try as I might, I could not get my system stable at anything more than 4.0 ghz at 1.2 volts. I could go higher of course, but then my system could not handle the heat. My system would start throttling immediately in AIDA 64's FPU test at anything more than 1.2 volts. Core 0 in particular was extremely bad, running 15 degrees hotter than any of the other cores.

In my frustration, I had had enough and decided to delid my processor. After much research and thought, I decided to use the razor method, as banging away at my CPU's PCB with a block of wood and a hammer did not sit well with me. I took my sweet time and was able to delid the processor without so much as a nick on the PCB. Right away, I am very happy. I bumped my voltage up to 4.3 ghz at 1.25 volts, and I'm running AIDA 64's FPU test for 15 minutes+ now with a max temp of 90 degrees C with no throttling across all cores. I didn't have any liquid metal ultra to put on the core and had to settle for Noctua's TIM, but I plan to order some and am confident that will bring down temps even further.

So to quit my rambling, I am both very happy and at the same time very frustrated at Intel about this. They KNOW that Haswell runs hot compared to their previous chips, but they still kept Ivy's terrible TIM and epoxy setup for their CPUs. They should be ashamed of themselves that enthusiasts have taken to putting razor blades and vices / woodblocks to their CPUs.
Intel 4770K @ 4.3 ghz (delidded) | Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler | Asus Z87-A Mobo | G.SKILL Ares 16GB DDR3-1866 RAM| Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB | Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD | 3 TB Mechanical Storage | Corsair Carbide 400R Enclosure
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:25 pm

Pictures? Tell me you took some!
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:32 pm

w00t!! Congrats. Hope the overclock works better. I delidded my 4770K using the block method (it's a lot less scary that it looks) and have been very happy with it at 4.7GHz.
One thing to do is to really work on the dried up glue around the CPU PCB. That glue can push the IHS up off the CPU die slightly and really hurts thermal transfer.

I would strongly recommend that you make sure to tweak the voltage for the cache and system agent too! The core voltage isn't the only thing you need to watch out for, and before I finally stabillized my system I had crashes that *didn't* occur when the cores were maxed-out in synthetic benchmarks but instead it came during long compile jobs that stressed other parts of the chip beyond the number crunching capability of the cores.

Another tip: I got some of that liquid metal thermal material and used it both between the CPU die and the IHS and between the IHS and the block on my water cooler. It helped quite a bit over convential AS5.
4770K @ 4.7 GHz; 32GB DDR3-2133; GTX-770; 512GB 840 Pro (2x); Fractal Define XL-R2; NZXT Kraken-X60
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:48 pm

SugG - I did not take pictures. I was far too nervous that it wasn't going to work when I put everything back together! However, I WILL take pictures and post them once I get some liquid metal ultra.

cuckula - I was actually reading through your thread yesterday as I was fretting over whether or not to go through with it. Now that it's all said and done, I have no regrets. I was able to get the epoxy off of the PCB almost completely, and it looks very clean. The IHS was a little tougher because of the grooves on the edges, but it is also pretty clean. It was pretty clear why my temps were so high, as the top of the IHS' TIM didn't even have a full imprint of the CPU die. I did tweak the other voltages as well. As it stands right now, I am at 4.3 ghz at the following voltages:

1.265 vcore
1.25 uncore
1.25 CPU cache voltage
2.0 vrin voltage

Any other tweak suggestions? I'm very new to Haswell, so all the settings are a bit overwhelming at first, and I've heard alot of them does not help for overclocking. It seems stable in Aida 64, and the FPU stress test in Aida (which I've heard is the most punishing, thermally speaking) pushes it to around 91 degrees across all cores. Before the delid, throttling would occur on core #0 immediately. Full load under prime95 is maxing it out at around 75 degrees across all cores. Hoping to see if I can get some more out of it when I can get my hands on some liquid metal ultra. As for cooling, I have a Noctua NH-D14. Pretty happy with it, though I may step up to water cooling one day.
Intel 4770K @ 4.3 ghz (delidded) | Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler | Asus Z87-A Mobo | G.SKILL Ares 16GB DDR3-1866 RAM| Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB | Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD | 3 TB Mechanical Storage | Corsair Carbide 400R Enclosure
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:11 pm

firerules16 wrote:Hi all. So I just completed a build, and I have been rather unhappy with it. I was one of the unlucky ones that got a very poor overclocking 4770k. Try as I might, I could not get my system stable at anything more than 4.0 ghz at 1.2 volts. I could go higher of course, but then my system could not handle the heat. My system would start throttling immediately in AIDA 64's FPU test at anything more than 1.2 volts. Core 0 in particular was extremely bad, running 15 degrees hotter than any of the other cores.

In my frustration, I had had enough and decided to delid my processor. After much research and thought, I decided to use the razor method, as banging away at my CPU's PCB with a block of wood and a hammer did not sit well with me. I took my sweet time and was able to delid the processor without so much as a nick on the PCB. Right away, I am very happy. I bumped my voltage up to 4.3 ghz at 1.25 volts, and I'm running AIDA 64's FPU test for 15 minutes+ now with a max temp of 90 degrees C with no throttling across all cores. I didn't have any liquid metal ultra to put on the core and had to settle for Noctua's TIM, but I plan to order some and am confident that will bring down temps even further.

So to quit my rambling, I am both very happy and at the same time very frustrated at Intel about this. They KNOW that Haswell runs hot compared to their previous chips, but they still kept Ivy's terrible TIM and epoxy setup for their CPUs. They should be ashamed of themselves that enthusiasts have taken to putting razor blades and vices / woodblocks to their CPUs.



Dang, son! I could hear your brass balls clanking all the way over here! Excellent work, and PLEASE provide pics!
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:26 pm

Dang, son! I could hear your brass balls clanking all the way over here! Excellent work, and PLEASE provide pics!


Haha, well... it really wasn't that bad. I just took a significant amount of time and NEVER forced the blade. Work from the corners first, and then work your way around the sides, mindful of where the die and VRM capacitors are on the Haswell chip. I obviously did not have brass balls big enough to put time aside to take pics. Was scared to death, to be honest! :o I assure you I will follow up with pictures once I get the liquid metal ultra to apply to the die.

Edit: consolation for no pictures of the delid, for now at least. Picture of the build. 4770K at 4.3 ghz, Asus Z87-A mobo, 16GB G Skil Ares RAM, GTX 770, and a Samsung Evo 840 SSD. I also have 3TB mechanical storage. This is my first complete new system build in 6+ years, so I'm finally a happy camper. :wink:
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:18 pm

Hey! Nice Job! I'd be too terrified to delid my CPU. I think for my next build, though, it's either going to have an insane watercooling setup, or an oil-immersion type system.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:45 pm

Hey firerules16. Here's some info on my OC settings. I'm using an Asus Z87 Pro board. I'm not setting the core voltages to exact values like you would have done in the old days. Instead, I'm using the relative CPU core, cache, and system agent voltage offsets and letting the board do the rest of the work. The voltages are not always at the maximum end of this range, but they can get up there during heavy usage.

1. CPU Core Voltage offset +0.150 volts.
2. CPU Cache Voltage offset: +0.150 volts. Don't forget the cache! Separate voltage plane.
3. System Agent Voltage offset: +0.1 volts. This was critical to maintaining stability even when the CPU wasn't necessarily maxed out doing computations. During the system stabilization process I had more lockups when the CPU cores were under 60C doing compile jobs than I had when I was torture-testing the cores with AVX2-enabled Linpack.

I'm using an NZXT Kraken X60, which is about the biggest cooler you can get in an all-in-one design short of going to more exotic custom cooling. Outside of mprime or Intel's specialized Linpack benchmarks, the CPU temperature rarely get above 60C even when all the cores are being kept busy.
4770K @ 4.7 GHz; 32GB DDR3-2133; GTX-770; 512GB 840 Pro (2x); Fractal Define XL-R2; NZXT Kraken-X60
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:03 pm

Thanks for the advice! I'll give it a try to see what I can get out of it. I feel you have a much happier overclocking chip than I.

I bring pictures! The Noctua TIM on the CPU die was causing high temps on core# 0 again, so I took it apart and applied some Arctic Silver 5 until my Liquid Ultra comes in. Pictures!
Intel 4770K @ 4.3 ghz (delidded) | Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler | Asus Z87-A Mobo | G.SKILL Ares 16GB DDR3-1866 RAM| Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB | Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD | 3 TB Mechanical Storage | Corsair Carbide 400R Enclosure
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:43 pm

Update! I just received my Liquid Ultra and applied it to the CPU die. I have to say, I'm impressed. I was thermal throttling before the delid, pushing low to mid 90s after the delid and with Arctic Silver 5, and now... well, I'll share this picture and it should speak for itself.

http://i.imgur.com/ivQ4kbg.png

I have to say, I am impressed. It's now time to see how far I can take this crappy overclocking chip.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:17 pm

Great job! I wish I had the courage to do it on my 3570K! I have a crappy specimen, I can only get it to 4.4. with 1.37v, at Winter only. It never breaks 70ºC at gaming/video encoding but it's a lot of voltage for 4.4GHz.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:19 pm

firerules16 wrote:Update! I just received my Liquid Ultra and applied it to the CPU die. I have to say, I'm impressed. I was thermal throttling before the delid, pushing low to mid 90s after the delid and with Arctic Silver 5, and now... well, I'll share this picture and it should speak for itself.

http://i.imgur.com/ivQ4kbg.png

I have to say, I am impressed. It's now time to see how far I can take this crappy overclocking chip.


I had a similar experience. The liquid metal stuff is a big step up from AS5 for the delid setup.
4770K @ 4.7 GHz; 32GB DDR3-2133; GTX-770; 512GB 840 Pro (2x); Fractal Define XL-R2; NZXT Kraken-X60
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:12 pm

Very cool, this is the sort of stuff that being an "enthusiast" used to be about. I tend to run things at stock these days, but back in the day I unlocked a number of Socket A CPUs, and did the XP->MP thing (conductive paint mod) for my Socket A MPX rig. Going even further back, I was assembling S-100 CPU and video cards with a soldering iron! :lol:

firerules16 wrote:So to quit my rambling, I am both very happy and at the same time very frustrated at Intel about this. They KNOW that Haswell runs hot compared to their previous chips, but they still kept Ivy's terrible TIM and epoxy setup for their CPUs. They should be ashamed of themselves that enthusiasts have taken to putting razor blades and vices / woodblocks to their CPUs.

The existing TIM/epoxy are good enough for stock speeds. That's what Intel cares about, because 99%+ of their CPUs will be run at stock. If going above and beyond "good enough" to satisfy a tiny percentage of their customer base costs them extra money for production retooling and/or higher materials costs, then that is a bad business decision! Intel didn't get to be the dominant player in the CPU business by making bad decisions.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:12 am

Dumb question:

For somebody planning to run at stock speeds, would delidding still be a worthwhile endeavor?

For example, somebody who folds 24/7 and wants to extend component life expectancy?
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:48 am

BIF wrote:Dumb question:

For somebody planning to run at stock speeds, would delidding still be a worthwhile endeavor?

For example, somebody who folds 24/7 and wants to extend component life expectancy?

Definitely not, this is way into the territory of enthusiasts. That said, even when running at stock speeds, delidding the CPU could help reduce the temperatures by a lot, which would also slightly improve power consumption (cooler CPUs consume less). The lower temperatures would theoretically also improve life expectancy, but at stock speeds you'd be talking about it surviving 20 years instead of 15.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:21 am

Any silicone running at 80c is going to use a substantial amount of more power then a chip running at 50c.

I noticed this reading the sapphire tri X r9 290x review. With it being a over clocked card from the factory it used 20+ less wattage then the reference 290 card. I don't think it is any different between a CPU and a GPU.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:16 am

Would you recomend liquid ultra for GPU?
I just bought Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X and despite massive cooler, it is still a bit too hot. Do you guys think liquid metal would make a difference compared to sapphire`s stock TIM?

/edit: Sorry for spam, I realised this post doesen`t realy belong here, I started my own thread.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:13 pm

I moved this thread to the Overclocking and Cooling forum.

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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:45 am

Glad to hear your delidding process was successful! I don't feel like designing a custom mount (if I even could with my waterblock) or taking the risk myself so I've never done it.

firerules16 wrote:So to quit my rambling, I am both very happy and at the same time very frustrated at Intel about this. They KNOW that Haswell runs hot compared to their previous chips, but they still kept Ivy's terrible TIM and epoxy setup for their CPUs. They should be ashamed of themselves that enthusiasts have taken to putting razor blades and vices / woodblocks to their CPUs.


In Intel's opinion, said enthusiasts will pay more to buy into the X78 six-core high-end platform. That one gets the actual soldier treatment and doesn't have new features disabled on unlocked parts. :-?
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:21 pm

just brew it! wrote:The existing TIM/epoxy are good enough for stock speeds. That's what Intel cares about, because 99%+ of their CPUs will be run at stock. If going above and beyond "good enough" to satisfy a tiny percentage of their customer base costs them extra money for production retooling and/or higher materials costs, then that is a bad business decision! Intel didn't get to be the dominant player in the CPU business by making bad decisions.

While I definitely agree with you and understand the business side of it with Intel's decision, I've heard people talk about Haswell chips throttling at stock speeds with the stock CPU cooler. In my opinion, that should never happen. I understand this doesn't matter to the typical end user, but at the same time, the typical end user would not buy a 'K' chip with an unlocked multiplier. Intel knows this.

Kougar wrote:In Intel's opinion, said enthusiasts will pay more to buy into the X78 six-core high-end platform. That one gets the actual soldier treatment and doesn't have new features disabled on unlocked parts. :-?

Too bad Haswell-E hasn't been released yet. Even if it was out, it'd be way outside my price range! :D

dodozoid wrote:Would you recomend liquid ultra for GPU?

I've heard it does wonders for GPUs if using a water block for liquid cooling. If you're talking about using liquid ultra with the reference R9 290 cooler, I'm honestly not sure what kind of an impact it would have. Just be careful applying it... it is electrically conductive and can fry your CPU or GPU if it gets where it's not supposed to.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:10 pm

firerules16 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:The existing TIM/epoxy are good enough for stock speeds. That's what Intel cares about, because 99%+ of their CPUs will be run at stock. If going above and beyond "good enough" to satisfy a tiny percentage of their customer base costs them extra money for production retooling and/or higher materials costs, then that is a bad business decision! Intel didn't get to be the dominant player in the CPU business by making bad decisions.

While I definitely agree with you and understand the business side of it with Intel's decision, I've heard people talk about Haswell chips throttling at stock speeds with the stock CPU cooler. In my opinion, that should never happen.

Agreed. If this is happening at stock settings in systems with reasonable case ventilation, then Intel screwed up.
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Re: New 4770K build, just delidded processor

Postposted on Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:37 pm

So I was just blessed by good fortune and came into a 4670K this past weekend. This thread is tempting my tummy with the taste of bare silicon and liquid ultra.
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