People who don't get it. (A Rant)

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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:54 am

Deanjo wrote:You assume that everyone has the laws as you. None of those are mandated by law here.


Where is here?

Deanjo wrote:Oh really then explain how my family farm that has been in the family for over a century is under water for the first time?


Again where is here? HERE in the US they have extensive flood data that span decades. /sigh again we are talking apples and oranges.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:56 am

Oh, the stories I can tell from my family's long association with the insurance business.

A workmans' comp claim for a woman who claimed to be injured (somehow) by one of those old continuous cotton towel machines was one thing. Expecting the insurer to pay for a pregnancy test that was somehow related to the towel mishap was too much even for me at the tender age of 19 or so working for the agency that summer (roughly 1982). The woman who was my boss agreed and that particular claim became a standard joke in that office. If you voluntarily wrapped your wrists/tentacles/pseudopodia according to phylum in the towel for purposes of enhancing carnal pleasure, the results were on your own remit.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:59 am

Deanjo wrote:Oh really then explain how my family farm that has been in the family for over a century is under water for the first time?


Flood insurance is a particularly bad example, since floods are so uninsurable that you can only buy coverage through federally-backed programs in the US, and is heavily subsidized to boot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_F ... ce_Program
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:59 am

Deanjo wrote:Oh really then explain how my family farm that has been in the family for over a century is under water for the first time.

There's the 100-year flood zone and the 500-year flood zone. Lenders need only mandate purchase of flood insurance in the 100-year zone.

[/day job]
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:04 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Deanjo wrote:Oh really then explain how my family farm that has been in the family for over a century is under water for the first time.

There's the 100-year flood zone and the 500-year flood zone. Lenders need only mandate purchase of flood insurance in the 100-year zone.

[/day job]


I did not know that. Learned something new today.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:06 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Deanjo wrote:Oh really then explain how my family farm that has been in the family for over a century is under water for the first time.

There's the 100-year flood zone and the 500-year flood zone. Lenders need only mandate purchase of flood insurance in the 100-year zone.

[/day job]


The term 100-year is a bit of a misnomer; it actually means that in a given year you've got a 1% chance of being flooded. Even a property outside a "flood zone" could be flooded in an exceptional year; see the Great Flood of '93 for an example.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:11 am

Captain Ned wrote:There's the 100-year flood zone and the 500-year flood zone. Lenders need only mandate purchase of flood insurance in the 100-year zone.


And, again, the lendees can only buy it through the federal government, because of the unavoidable truth behind what Welch already said:

Welch wrote:People think that insurance is supposed to pay out more than what you pay into it. At that point there would be no Insurance companies.


This is why private companies, in virtually all circumstances, stop offering flood coverage half a century ago here in the US.

Is insurance sometimes worth it? Sure, but most of the examples Deanjo provides aren't very good ones:

Deanjo wrote:Another example is crop insurance


Again, ridiculously subsidized by the US government and is inherently commercial, not consumer, anyway.

Deanjo wrote:face bankruptcy because of a medical bill


If health insurance in the US was actually insurance, that'd be an interesting point. But we're all but precluded from buying true-blue catastrophic coverage at this point. Everyone would recommend that kind of coverage, I'd think...

Deanjo wrote:had your dwelling burnt to the ground or robbed


Sure, that kind of coverage makes sense, but it's also radically different than cellphone insurance. Houses aren't obsolete in five years, it's a lot harder to seriously damage them, and there are books and books of legally-mandated regulations about how to prevent/minimize accidental fires.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:23 am

Glorious wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:There's the 100-year flood zone and the 500-year flood zone. Lenders need only mandate purchase of flood insurance in the 100-year zone.

And, again, the lendees can only buy it through the federal government, because of the unavoidable truth behind what Welch already said:.

Not at all disagreeing with your point here or with the rest of your points. That said, one of the things I need do in the day job is to ensure that federally-insured lenders (banks & credit unions), or private lenders who sell loans to Fannie/Freddie/FHA/VA, get flood certs on all properties they finance and compel borrowers to obtain flood insurance pre-closing if their property is in the 100-year zone.

Libertarian I may be, and the dichotomy between the day job and my political beliefs confounds me most every day (and drives many of my coworkers nuts), but the black-letter text of the reg says Thou Shalt and I'm in no place to give dispensations.

Further analysis is R&P bait.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:51 am

Captain Ned wrote:Not at all disagreeing with your point here or with the rest of your points. That said, one of the things I need do in the day job is to ensure that federally-insured lenders (banks & credit unions), or private lenders who sell loans to Fannie/Freddie/FHA/VA, get flood certs on all properties they finance and compel borrowers to obtain flood insurance pre-closing if their property is in the 100-year zone.

Libertarian I may be, and the dichotomy between the day job and my political beliefs confounds me most every day (and drives many of my coworkers nuts), but the black-letter text of the reg says Thou Shalt and I'm in no place to give dispensations.


I understand. :wink:

My general point is only supporting what Welch said, which is that insurance ain't magic and therefore isn't automatically a good idea.

My only question comes from curiosity and is this: How do "they" determine 100-year zones?
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:53 am

tanker27 wrote:
Deanjo wrote:You assume that everyone has the laws as you. None of those are mandated by law here.


Where is here?

Deanjo wrote:Oh really then explain how my family farm that has been in the family for over a century is under water for the first time?


Again where is here? HERE in the US they have extensive flood data that span decades. /sigh again we are talking apples and oranges.


Canada. Not everyone's laws are carbon copies of US law.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:58 am

Glorious wrote: Houses aren't obsolete in five years, it's a lot harder to seriously damage them, and there are books and books of legally-mandated regulations about how to prevent/minimize accidental fires.


All it takes is one cooking accident (talking from personal experience here.)
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:04 am

Glorious wrote:My only question comes from curiosity and is this: How do "they" determine 100-year zones?

Funnily enough, one of my old fraternity brothers works for a geomapping company. He gets to tell young interns where to stand with their GPS-enhanced survey sticks to map elevations. The whole thing is based on ground elevation and previously-observed flood water elevations. Somehow between the two they decide what ground elevation has a 1% risk of acquiring standing water in any given year, and that's what drives the flood certs/zones.

i know for a fact that you can petition for a "map adjustment". If you're building a new place and ground level is within the 100-year zone, you can raise the ground floor (flood insurance doesn't cover anything in a cellar or other space below the defined flood elevation and such are not considered in flood insurance underwriting) above the 100-year zone elevation and avoid flood insurance altogether.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:04 am

deanjo wrote:Canada. Not everyone's laws are carbon copies of US law.


Sure. But you can't really fault a US-based forum for colloquially assuming US jurisdiction, nor can you be critical of that assumption when you make underhanded references to US-specific situations ("medical" bankruptcies). :-?

At any rate, the underlying mechanics are largely the same. Insurance can be a good idea, but it isn't magic. Certain types of insurance, like Cellphone insurance, are near-universally bad ideas due to the underlying market mechanics, not law or geography. They are only "good" ideas when, namely, you *know* that you are adversely selecting them. That is, if you know that you are the kind of clown that plays frisbee with your phone.

If you are not that clown, there is no reason to buy the insurance. The market mechanics all-but-ensure that you're only going to be subsidizing someone else's clowning.

I think there is an acronym for that, isn't there? :P

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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:10 am

Deanjo wrote:All it takes is one cooking accident (talking from personal experience here.)


Which I'm sure didn't happen 3 times in so many months, as the example provided by the OP.

Again, no one is saying that insurance is uniformly a bad idea. Home-owners is generally a good idea. I know I'd still carry my policy even if I didn't have a mortgage.

The point is that the underlying mechanics are different. I can't tell you how many people I know who have completely destroyed phones in the last five years. I don't know anyone who has had a house/apartment fire in the last year, let alone total destruction from one. For another thing, everyone I know who has destroyed a phone has been able to afford a replacement or near-replacement. I don't know anyone who could totally afford to lose their house and then just go and buy another. A few could probably manage losing the equity, but none of them could afford to do so AND pay off the rest of the mortgage.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:11 am

Glorious wrote:TANSTAAFL

OK, Lazarus Long (or are you Maureen Johnson?).

8)
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:32 am

Glorious wrote:Again, no one is saying that insurance is uniformly a bad idea. Home-owners is generally a good idea. I know I'd still carry my policy even if I didn't have a mortgage.

The point is that the underlying mechanics are different.

Auto or Home insurance when financed is not to protect your property, but the financing company. You might get a benefit, but that is secondary to the bank protecting its interests.

(Also, auto insurance is often mandated by law in case you cause an accident. In this case you aren't insuring your vehicle, you're insuring damage against someone else's.)

Auto or home when you are the sole owner is to protect your propery, and falls into the same class as health insurance. Basically, the idea is that you can't afford thousands of dollars all at once (or even over time) if something out of your control happens. You hope to never file a claim, but paying a deductible can be cheaper than paying to replace a car, home, or internal organ directly.

Electronics insurance is...well, it's still insuring property. The difference is that most electronics you buy aren't going to be financed (hopefully), meaning that you can replace the device with out of pocket money, so paying for insurance is basically just paying extra money for ownership.

Electronics insurance on a smartphone is just bonkers. Unlike other electronics, most smartphones are bought at subsidized prices. An iPhone 5S is $650 SIM-free, but only $200 with a contract. Since the technology is still advancing in annual cycles, most people are going to enjoy the 5S for $200 and get a 6S/7/whatever two years later. I can see it making sense if you pay the $650 and/or if you know that you'll be in situations where the phone might be damaged or lost, but for the most part, it doesn't make sense. Go crazy on a $50 case + holster + screen protector + tether or exercise basic common sense.

Sorry for the long winded response.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:32 am

Glorious wrote:
Deanjo wrote:All it takes is one cooking accident (talking from personal experience here.)


Which I'm sure didn't happen 3 times in so many months, as the example provided by the OP.


Well let's put it this way, I have never broken a phone screen but I have lost my residence to fire.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:43 am

Deanjo wrote:Canada. Not everyone's laws are carbon copies of US law.


Did I say that? Umm nope. Nor did I even imply it. Again we are talking apples and oranges to the OP. Whats so hard to understand about that?
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:59 pm

This thread has also got myself think about "People who don't get it" in the sense of I'm unsure if people are either ill informed, ignorant or just plain stupid to their actions. For example I am unfortunately one that still has to use Facebook to communicate with people and a vast majority of the articles that people either like/share are satirical or just some blog ranting and thus my "friend" believes what they have read without any prior knowledge or independent research of the topic. When I try to tell them nicely that either the article is made up, ie The Onion, or a one sided argument they still defend their position. Maybe I'm too young to understand (21) why people do this but it irks the heck out of me. To the OP though don't let them borrow and abuse your items if that is how they are going to treat you. Granted it's easier said than done when concerning family.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Deanjo wrote:
tanker27 wrote:
Deanjo wrote:Oh really then explain how my family farm that has been in the family for over a century is under water for the first time?



Lots of rain and snow and no sun? Sorry Deanjo, but you asked ;) Hopefully you don't rely on wheat sales to pay the bills?

Edit - kinda surprising really, since Saskatchewan is usually dry or complaining about the dry. You guys still wet up there in ??? Saskatoon ???
Last edited by anotherengineer on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:28 pm

I think the fake stuff is a combination of cofidence, ingorance, compassion, and laziness...

A few months ago, I had someone post about "[Gang] Initiation Weekend." You've probably heard some variant, but the link is to Snopes, which calssifies this one as false, with origins going back a few decades. I linked this page to the individual, and he refused to change anything, citing "just in case." He basically wanted his family to know despite it being false on the off chance that someone decided to do something. I think he genuinely wanted to protect his family (even though it only spreads fear and paranoia), so he does have compassion, but there's also too much confidence and ignorance in such a post, IMO.

And I've seen a few more like this, posted fact-checks and but what really drives me crazy lately are the posts about how a particular month with have 5 Fridays, 5 Saturdays, and 5 Sundays, how it is supposed to be lucky, and how it supposedly only happens every 500 years (give or take). Of course...all you have to do is use your Windows calendar to debunk this...this is incredible laziness.

If you are using Facebook, you are literally using a device connected to the internet. It would take thirty seconds to check this stuff!

/rant
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:37 pm

The problem is that people who are truly ignorant and/or incapable of higher order reasoning and abstract thinking assume that they are right 100% of the time no matter how wrong they are. They are completely unaware of all the other competing ideas and concepts and just assume anyone or anything that is different than what they think is right is always wrong. People who are capable of "thinking" at least has the capacity to doubt what they are told, challenge their assumptions, and "gasp" learn something new.

I doesn't matter what it is... people's assumed ideas about how insurance "should be" rather than what it is, or how warranties should work, or if obama is a muslim....

I'd say that about 80% of the population can get stuck in a dogmatic rut, where they can't change how they think, change their world view, or change/improve existing standard operating procedures. I know many fellow scientists that stick to their own dogmatic way of doing certain assays even if there are proven ways of doing it better, more efficiently, and accurately. They are simply afraid of trying something new because what they do is working for them. I'm guilty of this as well. For a molecular biology assay called a western blot, I used to always use film instead of using the new digital imager simply because of my ingrained assumptions about film's superior sensitivity and image quality. I used film for years before I finally made the switch to digital, and digital is just way better for the most part. It costs less because you don't have to keep buying expensive film, you only need to do a single long exposure with digital,no need to go into the dark room, no need to scan the film, the image quality doesn't suffer too much, and overall a huge time saver.

The point is that the people "who don't get it" just do not have the capability of "getting it". Other people who are capable, might take them a few years but they will eventually get it, and sadly the "people who are capable of getting it" are in the vast minority.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:07 pm

Generally, if you want to raise someone who "doesn't get it," then just teach them -- directly or by example -- to be self-centered and incapable of both understanding and taking responsibility for their choices and actions.

Guaranteed results, every time.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:54 pm

I bought insurance on my 11 year old's phone. I didn't read it all the way through and didn't know about the deductible. I just figured yeah, she's 11 she'll lose/break it. Turns out she was very careful with it, and the battery failed. But since it was over a year old no warranty so I used the insurance. I was not thrilled when I learned about the deductible but took the insurance phone to replace her faulty one. Now that I know the score, when the contract is up, that insurance goes away. My bad for not reading what I signed.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 pm

anotherengineer wrote:Edit - kinda surprising really, since Saskatchewan is usually dry or complaining about the dry. You guys still wet up there in ??? Saskatoon ???


Sort of a normal winter here this year (long cold snaps not a whole lot of snow, not like the dumping of last year). The water level went down about a foot throughout the year but still had to build a driveway into the farm yard and got the construction crew in there to build permanent berms around to hold back the water (hopefully) in October. They had to build an entirely different access road as well as the one we used to use is still 6 feet under water.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

In case you are wondering what that is in the middle of the new lake just poking out of the water, it is one of these old guys that wasn't even close to water the previous year (in fact I was taking off canola in that area a couple of years ago)

All that water was farmable land in 2011.
Image

The burms were covered by insurance, as was the loss of revenue through private crop insurance (not gov't insurance), loss of the buildings and equipment also was covered through the insurance. The driveway however was covered only to "original condition" and since is was still there and just under 6 feet of water the rebuilding of it was out of my pocket. That little stretch cost 50k out of my pocket. If I had to cover the cost of the burms as well it would have been well over 250k.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:35 pm

All these whiners and their first world problems. Be thankful you can afford a 600 dollar phone in the first place. First of all cell phones have completely replaced landlines so that twenty a month you prior would have spent maintaining a home phone is now incorporated into your cell phone bill. Think about that. Pretty soon we won't even have cable/DSL companies but rather one master LTE data plan that all your devices (home devices and PCs as well) will use. That may be another utility that gets absorbed into your cell phone bill.

If you keep smashing screens get a thicker case.
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:09 am

Sunburn74 wrote:Pretty soon we won't even have cable/DSL companies but rather one master LTE data plan that all your devices (home devices and PCs as well) will use. That may be another utility that gets absorbed into your cell phone bill.


Eh, I think that's getting carried away.

Negroponte's switch indicates that while it make sense for phones to go from wired to wireless, as they are ultimately personal devices that correspond with the dynamic location of our person, it doesn't make sense for static devices, such as PCs and TVs, to be wireless.

In other words, it's kind of ridiculous to stream 1080p content OTA to a 70" TV that's obviously never going to move. That's a waste of bandwidth. :wink:
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:54 am

Glorious wrote:
In other words, it's kind of ridiculous to stream 1080p content OTA to a 70" TV that's obviously never going to move. That's a waste of bandwidth. :wink:


Well..... I do consider 95% of the programs that are broadcasted a waste of bandwidth no matter what the delivery system is.:D
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:01 am

deanjo wrote:Well..... I do consider 95% of the programs that are broadcasted a waste of bandwidth no matter what the delivery system is


:P

There's a name for that too: Sturgeon's law
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Re: People who don't get it. (A Rant)

Postposted on Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:03 pm

Well I had to drop off one last comment in this thread regarding the M-I-L situation. So he got his new iPhone 5c and in less than 1 month shattered it too. Of course I was asked to repair the phone (that she insisted on not get insurance on, fair enough). I told her I would be able to but the part alone runs 150ish and then since its was a new phone I'd be breaking the warranty on it. So she is going to seek out a shop that is an authorized Apple dealer to do it (thank god).

Then 2 days ago, she dropped and broke her Samsung S3, that she had claimed was having issues and refused to ring (it didn't). We had towers in our area that were down and she was well aware of that issue as we all complained how no one could hear us for almost a week straight but we could hear them. They sent her a replacement phone and she broke her phone the day before getting it. It didn't need to be replaced anyways, calls were going to voice mail due to network issues lol.

So I never mentioned that she was fired from her latest job AGAIN with very similar circumstances. This time though, her boss who hired her are good friends of my wife and mine. We went out for some drinks with her and the reasons were described to us. She was given the full 90 day probational period. During that time, in an office of 6 people she could only remember 2 peoples names, and filed payroll on the wrong quarter 6 times in a row.

The point in all of this again, people who just don't get it and go through life with their heads up their ass. This isn't suggesting that if you don't understand details of a phone insurance policy that your one of those people. It just seems from stem to stern that people like my M-I-L just can't do anything for themselves. No wonder there are so many consumer laws in place to protect people from themselves.
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