Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, SecretSquirrel, notfred
flip-mode wrote:1) Net-tools is deprecated? Doesn't seem to be installed on Debian 7.4. Should I install it?
flip-mode wrote:2) Trying not to bother the Linux elites with trivial questions, I've been diligently reading the Debian Reference. Can't find mention as to how to find out what packages are installed on the system, nor where packages conventionally get installed on the system. There's /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, and /usr/sbin. Looking for the section in the Debian Reference that describes the organization of the filesystem and stuff.
flip-mode wrote:3) Is it better these days to use aptitude from the command line than apt-get?
flip-mode wrote:1) Net-tools is deprecated? Doesn't seem to be installed on Debian 7.4. Should I install it?
2) Trying not to bother the Linux elites with trivial questions, I've been diligently reading the Debian Reference. Can't find mention as to how to find out what packages are installed on the system, nor where packages conventionally get installed on the system. There's /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, and /usr/sbin. Looking for the section in the Debian Reference that describes the organization of the filesystem and stuff.
3) Is it better these days to use aptitude from the command line than apt-get?
I remember the network connection problem was simple to solve. I find a file - /etc/interfaces or something like that - and add the new interface to it for the bridged connection. But first I have to find the interface for the bridged connection. I thought I used ifconfig to list the interfaces, but when I tried to do so I found that ifconfig is not installed, and after a bit of investigation came upon the information that says that ifconfig - as a part of net-tools - may now be obsolete, so I'm just trying to regain my footing here.
notfred wrote:I think ifconfig is still there in Debian. The usual problem is it is /sbin/ifconfig and /sbin is not in a normal users path. Debian considers this a feature rather than a bug.
ifconfig doesn't show interfaces that are down by default, you need "ifconfig -a" to show all of them. The file where you setup the network interface is /etc/network/interfaces
notfred wrote:I think ifconfig is still there in Debian. The usual problem is it is /sbin/ifconfig and /sbin is not in a normal users path. Debian considers this a feature rather than a bug.
notfred wrote:I think ifconfig is still there in Debian. The usual problem is it is /sbin/ifconfig and /sbin is not in a normal users path. Debian considers this a feature rather than a bug.
ifconfig doesn't show interfaces that are down by default, you need "ifconfig -a" to show all of them. The file where you setup the network interface is /etc/network/interfaces
Glorious wrote:notfred wrote:I think ifconfig is still there in Debian. The usual problem is it is /sbin/ifconfig and /sbin is not in a normal users path. Debian considers this a feature rather than a bug.
I'm thinking it isn't, because it sounds like flip-mode was saying that net-tools isn't part of the basic install.
Really, though, the better way is `ip addr show`. That's part of iproute2 toolset, which is the one we're supposed to be using. ifconfig and the rest of NET-3 toolset have been deprecated for quite some time, so Debian is doing things the right way. It isn't a bug...
If you want it, install net-tools, but if you are learning this stuff for the first time you might as well learn it the right way.
Worry about ifconfig if you have to support older unixes, if you don't, go boldly into the brave new world.
Flatland_Spider wrote:/etc/inferfaces should be correct file for Debian.
ip can be used as substitution for ifconfig. Its output is not as friendly as ifconfig, and it has the comamnd switches subcommand option suboption attribute disease.
ip link to show all interfaces.
ip link show eth0 to show just the eth0 interface.
ip addr show eth0 to show the IP address and other IP related stuff for eth0.
flip-mode wrote:Right. Problem is, I did "ifconfig -a" and found out that ifconfig is not installed. Started looking into that and saw somewhere - I think in the Debian Reference - that ifconfig and the net-tools suite of which it is a part is considered obsolete. But I haven't gotten any further than that yet - had to return to my normal duties.
flip-mode wrote:This isn't my first time, but it has been a long time. I installed Ubuntu 10.04 LTS a while ago. It's still running to this day as my company's ftp server. All I've ever done since the initial install is create new ftp user accounts. I have no idea how the machine I once set up works
PenGun wrote:Meh. I have to type ip addr to get what ifco/Tab will give me and it's not formatted as nicely.
Glorious wrote:PenGun wrote:Meh. I have to type ip addr to get what ifco/Tab will give me and it's not formatted as nicely.
As someone who has to routinely use ancient and currently unsupported unixes at work (with further and painful limitations on what I'm allowed to build on them...), I *really* don't understand your insistence that unix is definitively better than everything else, with the older and harder it is the better.
ifconfig was deprecated for a reason (and a good one at that), and if you really like the formatting so much then you can write your own wrapper however you like around iproute2 and alias it.
I mean, isn't that sort of thing what you're all about?
bthylafh wrote:So make an alias and quit whining.
PenGun wrote:Why would I alias 4 keys and TAB. To make a shorter one? If I had to use ip addr a lot I might.
just brew it! wrote:PenGun wrote:Why would I alias 4 keys and TAB. To make a shorter one? If I had to use ip addr a lot I might.
Well, you were complaining about 2 additional keystrokes. So why not shave off 2 more?
just brew it! wrote:Aptitude has its fans; it's a decent front-end. I still use apt-get and dpkg from the command line, just because that's what I'm accustomed to.
You may want to install apt-file, it is useful for figuring out the relationships between packages and installed files.
On a vaguely related note, try running "apt-get moo" sometime. Then run "aptitude moo" with increasing levels of verbosity (first with no other options, then "aptitude -v moo", then with "-vv", and so on).
fhohj wrote:I disliked how dependency heavy so many debian packages were back when I used to use Debian every day. This was around the time of etch being testing. So I abandoned apt in favour of doing things myself with dpkg, and man, though my system worked fine, installing new software after a while became a real pain. moral of the story, you might get a dozen different packages just to install a single piece of software, but it has its purpose as you don't want to make things difficult for the package managing.
just brew it! wrote:fhohj wrote:I disliked how dependency heavy so many debian packages were back when I used to use Debian every day. This was around the time of etch being testing. So I abandoned apt in favour of doing things myself with dpkg, and man, though my system worked fine, installing new software after a while became a real pain. moral of the story, you might get a dozen different packages just to install a single piece of software, but it has its purpose as you don't want to make things difficult for the package managing.
Yeah, keeping track of dependencies is the package manager's JOB. Unless you have very specific needs for newer/older versions of things that aren't in the standard repositories, let the package manager do all of the dependency management for you, it will save you a lot of grief!
just brew it! wrote:and your lawn looks like a prairie restoration experiment.