Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, JustAnEngineer
homerdog wrote:Don't get a really high wattage PSU. A good 500W unit will be more than adequate.
You probably don't need to overclock either. A stock i7 or Xeon E3-1230V3 is very fast.
homerdog wrote:Don't get a really high wattage PSU. A good 500W unit will be more than adequate.
You probably don't need to overclock either. A stock i7 or Xeon E3-1230V3 is very fast.
Haswell is indeed more sensitive to RAM speed than previous Intel CPUs. There are gains to be had going with 1866MHz and higher, but I wouldn't spend more than $20 extra for anything above 1600MHz. Good 1866MHz CL9 kits can be had for not much more than a 1600MHz kit, so that's what I'd do.
homerdog wrote:Hmm, my 520W Seasonic PSU is dead silent under load. The 500W Corsair unit in my other PC is barely audible. A really high wattage PSU will actually be less efficient than a sensible one, not to mention more expensive. Seems like a really bad idea.
Are you suggesting he should overclock the baseclock instead of just raising the multiplier? That is not a good idea.
Chrispy_ wrote:Regarding AMD(ATi) vs Nvidia reliability, I was dealing with mostly Geforce & Quadro cards up until the GTX285, the last of which died or was replaced about 18 months ago.
When Nvidia switched to Fermi/Kepler they murdered their compute and DP FLOPS performance and I started buying GCN cards (mostly Radeons and not FireGL).
Over the last five years and maybe 1000 graphics cards, I've had to replace maybe 20-30 Nvidia cards and 3 AMD cards which is close enough to call even in the reliability stakes.
Yesterday, I (a minion, actually) assembled PC numbers 190-196 since the AMD graphics switchover, meaning my failure rates are roughly proportional to the number of cards we've had from each vendor, considering their age and service time difference too.
Chrispy_ wrote:Regarding AMD(ATi) vs Nvidia reliability, I was dealing with mostly Geforce & Quadro cards up until the GTX285, the last of which died or was replaced about 18 months ago.
When Nvidia switched to Fermi/Kepler they murdered their compute and DP FLOPS performance and I started buying GCN cards (mostly Radeons and not FireGL).
Over the last five years and maybe 1000 graphics cards, I've had to replace maybe 20-30 Nvidia cards and 3 AMD cards which is close enough to call even in the reliability stakes.
Yesterday, I (a minion, actually) assembled PC numbers 190-196 since the AMD graphics switchover, meaning my failure rates are roughly proportional to the number of cards we've had from each vendor, considering their age and service time difference too.
maxxcool wrote:but if the psu is under say 50% load at its highest usage then it is no less efficient than the loaded 550 you mention as it will have LESS thermal losses because it is not being run at capacity.
redwood36 wrote:I do live next to an MC but I want the rig running ASAP so waiting for a bundle is less of an option. However good call regarding looking em up. I was already going to run over there for the case.
Another edit: dpete, wow your right 100 $ off the 4770k awesome!!!
homerdog wrote:His PC at full load might draw 250-300W max, right where a good 500W unit will be at maximum efficiency. That's exactly what you want, and good PSUs are designed to be very quiet at ~50-70% load.
As for filling up all the RAM slots, that is actually a memory controller issue and has nothing to do with the RAM itself.
I recall back in the day my C2DE6750 could hold 2 2GB sticks on a 400MHz FSB, but I had to relax the timings to get 4 sticks at that speed. You could put in the fastest DDR2 in the world and it made no difference, since it was the memory controller holding things up.
That's an old example but it still holds true. If you can run 2 sticks at 2300MHz but not 4, faster memory won't help you. Overvolting the CPU might.
redwood36 wrote:So many replies! I'll try and answer them all.
Dpete:
I do live next to an MC but I want the rig running ASAP so waiting for a bundle is less of an option. However good call regarding looking em up. I was already going to run over there for the case.
Yeah 1200 I suppose is max but under is preferable.
I suppose not, I've learned it's bette to be safe than sorry regarding cooling. My current 285 I had to max the fans out manually otherwise it would overheat even on low end 2d games. Still no I don't plan to oc.
Good call regarding the review. I remember reading that review sayin f yeah green team! Mainly cause my know it all buddy is all about amd.
You might be right but I just love the look of the 750d case as does my gf. Also a smaller case would only take up less of the space that I have allotted for the case, if that makes sense. Still when I runner to mc I will be taking a gander at the 450d.
Thank you!
Homerdog:
No overclocking is my intention. If not those CPUs and mobo what do u recommend?
Yeah I wondered about that regarding VRAM. I will go for the 4 then!
Regarding regular ram, ok I though that using more slots might give the CPU better access to the memory. If not then your right may as we'll leave room for later.
Regrading the psu my old one is a 750 watt corsair and I was actually wondering just now if I could keep it. Otherwise I don't mind spending money on a good psu as the headaches of having one on on the fritz always sounded bad. Judging from your debate, sounds like 650 is in a sweet spot.
Maxxcool: sounds like you agree with the suggestions I've put forth taking into account the suggestions that homer dog made? Besides the psu. You both seem to be advocating for more powerful ram so I will do that.
Thanks everybody. My replies are slow as this tablet is a real handicap.
Edit: also I'm going to change the list as we speak so I hope this doesn't create confusion down the line.
Another edit: dpete, wow your right 100 $ off the 4770k awesome!!!
Should I go for the 4820k though?
maxxcool wrote:homerdog wrote:His PC at full load might draw 250-300W max, right where a good 500W unit will be at maximum efficiency. That's exactly what you want, and good PSUs are designed to be very quiet at ~50-70% load.
As for filling up all the RAM slots, that is actually a memory controller issue and has nothing to do with the RAM itself.
I recall back in the day my C2DE6750 could hold 2 2GB sticks on a 400MHz FSB, but I had to relax the timings to get 4 sticks at that speed. You could put in the fastest DDR2 in the world and it made no difference, since it was the memory controller holding things up.
That's an old example but it still holds true. If you can run 2 sticks at 2300MHz but not 4, faster memory won't help you. Overvolting the CPU might.
It is a load / impedance issue. more IC's == more load at the rated speed. so if he wants the best success at 1866, buying 2133 now and in the future and running it at 1866 would mean he would have 0 issues with timings or bumping the ram multiplier down.
redwood36 wrote:Homerdog:
No overclocking is my intention. If not those CPUs and mobo what do u recommend?
maxxcool wrote:--get 8 gigs *minimum* ram (2200mhz or better)
redwood36 wrote:As DPete27 suggested, the $30 CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo would cool at least as well for less money.CPU
Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor $326.98
CPU Cooler
Corsair H60 54.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler $64.99
redwood36 wrote:I will also agree with DPete27 that a micro-ATX solution like the $125 Asus Z87M-Plus should meet all of your needs.Motherboard
Asus Z87-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard $134.99
redwood36 wrote:Do not buy a 4x4 GiB memory kit. If you need 16 GiB of memory for your art applications, buy that as a 2x8 GiB kit. You'll get better performance with two DIMMs than with four, and you'll still have two slots free if you ever need to go up to 32 GiB of memory in the future. This memory defaults to PC3-12800, but it includes an XMP profile for PC3-14900 (DDR3-1866), as well:Memory
G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory $156.99
redwood36 wrote:This is a good graphics card, but you're getting close to the $380 price point of the much more powerful Radeon R9-290 4GiB.Video Card
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 2GB WINDFORCE Video Card $338.98
redwood36 wrote:That is a huge 71.7 liter case. I have been pleased with the $100 Silverstone Temjin TJ08-E, which takes up only 30.2 liters.Case
Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case $139.99
redwood36 wrote:If you're going to spend that much, you might as well look at a SeaSonic PSU like the $122 SSR-750RM or the $99 SSR-650RM.Power Supply
Corsair Professional 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply $109.99
maxxcool wrote:until you listen the the fan blazing away, even the 120mm fans under load. if you can score a 100amp+ psu for a bill... you will *love* it as it will run cooler, 4x quieter and live ALOT longer than a psu that is 90% taxed.
MarkG509 wrote:So, wait a minute. What about the TR System Guide?
homerdog wrote:maxxcool wrote:homerdog wrote:
Edit: wait a minute, it could be possible on certain motherboards that 4 DIMMs would receive slightly lower voltage than 2 DIMMs. I think that may explain your issues with RAM not operating at the rated specs with 4 DIMMs. This could be resolved by bumping up the voltage on the DIMMs or buying faster memory and underclocking it. Does that make sense?
This is really off topic.