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mattsteg wrote:

It might be more clear but it's still not accurate.

I am talking about the Players being unionized. Ugh, miscommunication of the year?

Nitrodist wrote:

I am talking about the Players being unionized. Ugh, miscommunication of the year?

The players are not "MLB".

mattsteg wrote:

The players are not "MLB".

MLB is a league though? I'm saying in my second post that MLB shouldn't acquiesce to player's threats.

Um, you guys might want to stop the quote tunnel before it gets out of hand and someone gets a tongue lashing from Kevin.

OK, 1st things 1st: why I singled out Craig Wilson. I saw him one year at Wrigley before a game signing autographs. OK fine whatever. The next year, it looked like Lou Ferrigno had put on his jersey. It was an amazing change. Plus, he seemed to me to be the type that would turn to roids; an borderline starter who's main strength is the long ball. But I haven't seen his name mentioned in any of the headlines I've skimmed since I got home from work so either I was wrong or he was smarter about it than some of the other guys I've read.

/me goes off to slog through 400+ pages of Captain Ned's link.

Some of the latter quote tunnels have been removed.

From what I can tell, these are the names:

Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mike Bell
Marvin Benard
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagné
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
Mike Judd
David Justice
Matt Karchner
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Exavier "Nook" Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Stephen Randolph
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Mike Stanton
Ricky Stone
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Randy Velarde
Ron Villone
Fernando Viña
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

No Craig Wilson, though. I'm sure this is not a comprehensive list...just because someone isn't on this doesn't mean they're in the clear. Or maybe they're in a different kind of clear.

Some of those names are crazy. I mean, Adam Riggs? wtf? Howie Clark?

Hmm, no Sammy Sosa, which isn't all that surprising to me since there's never been any hint of a paper trail with him, just guilt by association.

I don't see the purpose of all of this. Outting a few players, many based on heresay. No one believes that a ton of players in MLB were not on steroids in the 90s and early 2000s. A more meaningful way to appeal to fans might be actually fighting the Union to get independent testers that draw and store blood samples. Players who are mentioned without physical evidence to support the claims will have a field day with this. Bud Selig has created an even bigger headache for himself for no reason.

ifittakesforever wrote:

Hmm, no Sammy Sosa, which isn't all that surprising to me since there's never been any hint of a paper trail with him, just guilt by association.

Personally I believe he didnt use but just used a corked bat.

WHEW! My favorite Pitcher of all time is not on that list.....Greg Maddux.

chasscF1 wrote:

I don't see the purpose of all of this. Outting a few players, many based on heresay. No one believes that a ton of players in MLB were not on steroids in the 90s and early 2000s. A more meaningful way to appeal to fans might be actually fighting the Union to get independent testers that draw and store blood samples. Players who are mentioned without physical evidence to support the claims will have a field day with this. Bud Selig has created an even bigger headache for himself for no reason.

Heresay?

Read the report.....they have full time lines of these guys. In fact the most damning thing is they have the canceled checks that the players wrote to buy the stuff. Yes this pics are in the report!

tanker27 wrote:

chasscF1 wrote:

I don't see the purpose of all of this. Outting a few players, many based on heresay. No one believes that a ton of players in MLB were not on steroids in the 90s and early 2000s. A more meaningful way to appeal to fans might be actually fighting the Union to get independent testers that draw and store blood samples. Players who are mentioned without physical evidence to support the claims will have a field day with this. Bud Selig has created an even bigger headache for himself for no reason.

Heresay?

Read the report.....they have full time lines of these guys. In fact the most damning thing is they have the canceled checks that the players wrote to buy the stuff. Yes this pics are in the report!

I know that. Others are implicated based on the testimony of McNamee who was compelled to go before Mitchell as part of his plea deal. Radomski implicates people he never saw used steroids and has no copies of checks for. My point is that not every player is linked by a canceled check. Steroid use was so widespread, why bother outing a few like you got all the bad apples from the group. I'm sure there are at least 10 times that number of players who did use and are not mentioned. My main point is that your not solving anything by admitting to a lie 7 years after everyone knew it wasn't true. Get real testing policies in place.

I think there's a misconception about what "hearsay" is. If someone says they personally did something (like inject someone else with steroids or HGH), it's not hearsay...if it's not true, it's just a lie.

ifittakesforever wrote:

Hmm, no Sammy Sosa, which isn't all that surprising to me since there's never been any hint of a paper trail with him, just guilt by association.

Just because he's not on the list doesn't mean he's not guilty; he's just not covered by this investigation.

The way I read the report the biggest loser in the court of public opinion is the MLBPA. Mitchell goes out of his way to document their obstruction tactics; one thinks that with all of the public knowledge of steroid/HGH use the union would for once understand that the Sgt. Schultz approach just won't work anymore.

Several players are publicly denying the reports finding.

I would like to see any player who is listed testify under oath that he did not use a banned substance. Otherwise I consider them a liar.

I think Mitchell said the other day that he offered to listen to each player listed in the report and only 2 were willing to talk to him.

Man, this is so bad even Pete Rose can slam a guy and I'm thinking...hey, this kinda makes sense...

link

"If you're going to put these guys that supposedly did steroids into the Hall of Fame, I mean I've got to get a shot somewhere," he said.

To the best of my knowledge, all Pete Rose did was bet on the Reds to win. I don't see how his gambling is bad enough to keep him out this long yet some of these guys still today get writers saying "sure, I'd still vote for him" (Tim Kirkjian on ESPN said that about Clemens, and at least represents himself as someone who gets a Hall of Fame ballot).

derFunkenstein wrote:

Man, this is so bad even Pete Rose can slam a guy and I'm thinking...hey, this kinda makes sense...

link

"If you're going to put these guys that supposedly did steroids into the Hall of Fame, I mean I've got to get a shot somewhere," he said.

To the best of my knowledge, all Pete Rose did was bet on the Reds to win. I don't see how his gambling is bad enough to keep him out this long yet some of these guys still today get writers saying "sure, I'd still vote for him" (Tim Kirkjian on ESPN said that about Clemens, and at least represents himself as someone who gets a Hall of Fame ballot).

I agree, if they can let these cheaters in, Rose should be a lock.

If Rose had used steroids, he'd have 6000+ hits instead of 4,256.