Post your Highest OC'

Speed addicts anonymous.

Moderator: Starfalcon

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:05 pm

crazybus wrote:
clone wrote:
so you ran some "benchmarks", played HL2, transferred files, ripped DVDs, burned DVDs, played BioShock.... do you realize that all of these don't stress the CPU to 100%?
sigh.....usually it's a little stressfull when your running a few of them simultanious while you wait for results from one app or another.
Stressful on I/O perhaps but not necessarily pushing the CPU to its limit. It's not indication of rock-solid stability in any event.
clone wrote:Intel's TaT seems to be the only problem...... does that make TaT matter?..... to me no, that TaT wouldn't allow me to overclock more than 100mhz while every other app is good with it..... does that make TaT matter?..... to me no.

IMHO TaT's worthless.

note the IMHO, it's like basing my computers overclock on running Prime 95...... if it's 100% stable at everything except Prime 95 do I really care all that much?

I run it to test and then consider the results as a possible issue but I usually run my overclocks higher and if I run into an issue then I go with "well Prime 95 told me it would be an issue"... the problem with TaT for me is that a 100mhz being a possible issue really hurts it's value in my eyes when it's the only application showing any potential problem.

I guess you don't put much value in stability. I'd rather lose 5 or even 10% in performance than have a potentially flaky machine. In my experience I system that fails at Prime 95 will eventually crash or corrupt something else.
BTW, if you were experiencing overheating and throttling with TAT, there's something seriously wrong with your watercooling setup or the DTS sensor on that processor. I don't use TAT as representative of temps under load (I use prime95 for that) because no real application will push the cpu that hard, but your cooling system should be able to handle it if you want your chip to last very long.
It's all a matter of confidence. Some need more re-assurance. Some like you are ok with what you have, which is fine. The problem is that all it takes is one "error" to show you potential signs of data corruption or CPU burning up. You may never hit that error, or it may take a long time such that it will never happen while you own the CPU, or it may still take a long time but while you still own it, resulting in unexplained "random" errors. If you are ok with that, no one is going to stop you.
Image
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 24360
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:11 pm

E6300 @ 3.3 on a Gigabyte P965 DS3
E3110 @ 3.6 on a IP35 Pro
9600GT @ 750/1000/1800
Don't remember what I had my 7600GT at.
System: Antec P182, E3110, Abit IP35 Pro, Patriot DDR2-800 (2x2GB), eVGA 9600GT, WD 320GB HHD, Corsair 520HX, Vista 64
Fastfreak39
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:55 pm
Location: central new york

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:12 pm

Let's see , I posted at the beginning of this thread with a AXPM 2500 from 1.8 to 2.4 = 600 mghz
Then a 3700 + from 2.2 to 2.7 = 500 mghz , Opteron 175 from 2.2 to 2.67 = 470 mghz , Opteron
185 from 2.6 to 2.9 = 300 mghz and now Q 6600 from 2.4 to 3.3 = 900 mghz

So really my very first and last were my highest , the Q 6600 can go way higher but not fighting
heat............

EDIT :: Corrected the AXPM
EDIT :: Corrected the Q 6600 Jebus
thanks
Last edited by tsoulier on Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Core I7 2600K @ 4.6 | Asrock P67 Extreme 4 | 16 gig Corsair | EVGA Superclocked GTX 780 | Samsung 840 Pro SSD | Seasonic X-850 W

Phenom II 940 | Gigabyte MA78G-DS3HP | 2x2 gig G-Skill dr2 800 | 500 W Seasonic | WD 640 HDD | Sapphire 4890 1 gig
tsoulier
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
 
Posts: 2933
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:17 am
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:26 pm

Presumably, you should measure the 'highest' in one of 2 respects: raw increase in mhz, or percentage increase in mhz.
According to the latter, your xp-m would have been faster :wink:
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 21291
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:36 pm

Hm... I can get a 3D Mark score out of my overclocked 8800GTS @ 815/2050/1120 but its not entirely stable. The CPU is holding me back though.
i5 2500K @ 4.5GHz / Cooler Master V8 / Asus P8P67 Evo / 8GB G.skill DDR3-1600 / MSI GTX 560 Ti / Seasonic S12-650 / 1TB Spinpoint F3 / Corsair 600T Graphite / those cheap 1440p Korean monitors
BoBzeBuilder
Graphmaster Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Beerland

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:55 pm

I am running my E6750 at 3,4 GHz with stock cooling.

My 7600GS, passively cooled, is OC'd from to 400 MHz to 510 MHz core and 270 MHz to 420 MHz memory. I'm quite proud of the memory OC on that one. :) Yes, I know that standard 7600GS cards run the memory at 400 MHz. The passively cooled ones however, do not.
boing
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 2:21 am
Location: Sweden, Europe

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:42 am

.
Last edited by clone on Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
neg
clone
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:40 am

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:43 am

tsoulier wrote: Q 6600 from 2.4 to 3.2 = 600 mghz


You need to edit it again.. 2.4 to 3.2 = 800 mghz :wink:
Intel i5 4670K @ 4.0GHZ|ATI Radeon HD 7970| 12 GB RAM| Xtreme Music with G500 5.1 | Panasonic "TH-L42E60".
Jigar
Maximum Gerbil
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 4595
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:38 am

C2Q6700
2.67==>3.45
Bastage:
Ci7 3930K @ 4.56Ghz//16GB//MSI X79A-GD65//Noctua NH-D14 se2011//180GB Intel SSD 520
XFX 5850 1GB @775/1200 //X-Fi Titanium HD//Dell U2410(A01)+2001FP//OCZ ZX 850W
ucisilentbob
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:58 pm
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:41 am

Sure is a nice chip this one: 1.3GHz overclock with Zalman CNPS 9500
Image
Image
8)
Fighterpilot
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:29 am
Location: your girlfriend's bedroom...

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Tue May 27, 2008 9:27 pm

QX9770 @ 4004.3 MHz :D

Image
sandygws
Gerbil
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:45 am

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed May 28, 2008 9:58 am

I got 3.49 on the Q9300, totally unstable.
I can get 3.25 stable on the same chip, but I'm at 3.1 because I can downvolt it so low. Folding right now it's at like 45 degrees
My Dreamcast PC thread
Main Rig: FX-6100 / Radeon 6950 / Velociraptor HD because old school rotations
pikaporeon
Graphmaster Gerbil
 
Posts: 1312
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada.

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed May 28, 2008 10:42 am

Not too experienced with overclocking, but when I built this new machine a few weeks ago I chucked in an E8400 since I've heard a lot of good things about this chip. Anyways it seems like I've got a good bin number since I immediately cranked it up to 3.6ghz on a EP35C-DS3R and it hasn't complained at all. I haven't bothered stress testing it to ensure stability because frankly I'm too lazy, but since my machine is essentially a gaming platform I'm not too worried.

I've not bothered seeing how high it'll go because one, I'm not that brave, and two: I don't think I need it. When software starts to demand more from my machine that I start to notice a performance penalty, I'll squeeze it some more. Same with the GPU incidentally.
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."
Richie_G
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:22 am
Location: Swenglandmark.

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed May 28, 2008 11:27 am

The one E6300 (1.86 Ghz) that I used to have went all the way up to 3.0Ghz (or 63% overclock) with a modest Vcore boost before my Motherboard couldn't handle the FSB. I am sure it would be able to do at least 3.2Ghz. ;)

My current B3 Q6600 (2.4Ghz) can handle at least 3.2Ghz if had a little more volts and much better cooling. It rests right now at 2.93Ghz using stock vcore and 60-70C when fully loaded.

I had also previously overclocked a Venice 3200+ (2.0Ghz) and Opetron 165 (1.8Ghz) to respectfully 2.4Ghz (20% overclock) and 2.5Ghz (38% overclock).
Ivy Bridge i5-3570K@4.0Ghz, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, 2x4GiB of PC-12800, EVGA 660Ti, Corsair CX-600 and Fractal Refined R4 (W). Kentsfield Q6600@3Ghz, HD 4850 2x2GiB PC2-6400, Gigabyte EP45-DS4P, OCZ Modstream 700W, and PC-7B.
Krogoth
Maximum Gerbil
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 4402
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed May 28, 2008 1:00 pm

clone wrote:
I picked up a e2140 for my wife awhile back and it sucks in the overclocking department. 2.8 ghz is all it can do.
I decided to buy an E2180 thinking 3000mhz would be decent given the cost and it would make a good stand by until the 45nm parts arrive but after 3000mhz for 2 months and never feeling near as fast as my E6600 at stock let alone 3000mhz or the 3600mhz I was running it at........ an idiot recommends I use Intel's TaT to test it which promptly overheats it badly each time I'm using it, I've got a good water cooling and at the time am confused but check and recheck the seat after changing the past and making sure on pump rpm... according to TaT 2100mhz was all my cpu should have gotten before burning a hole to china....... so I mention I believe the app is garbage and something is wrong but I didn't do any research and idiot claims he has and stands by his comment "it's an official Intel benchmark and diagnostic app".....after toasting my dual core for another day I delete the app but upon restarting the computer it suddenly won't post any higher than 2600mhz..... within 2 days it's dropped to 2200mhz and now I'm stuck at 2000mhz not entirely stable......I intend to unplug the pump given it was an Intel app that killed my cpu it's their dime and no I'm not concerned and no my conscience is clean on the matter, just waiting for the 2nd system to be built.
No, you don't. If your cooling isn't up to what the processor can do, it's insufficient. Quit blaming others for your incompetence and screwing over the rest of us who aren't thieves.
clone wrote:
TAT is one of the most stressful apps that one can use for an Intel CPU. This means your OC does not really hold even you think it does.
the problem here is relevance and having done some research on my own I've found out that TaT is virtually worthless having been developed for mobile cpu's it's temp indications are fundamentally flawed and the synthetic load test seems dubious at best.
It's a worst-case. There's nothing dubious about that. If your cooling capability is borderline/marginal (like yours was) and you run a worst-case thermal loading tool, it's your responsibility to monitor your temperatures using a trustworthy tool.
clone wrote:1st I ran the 2180 at 3000mhz and played BioShock from Start to Finnish, I played Half Life 2 the entire series from start to finnish, I burned and decoded numerous DVD's, burned files like crazy, did file transfers, benchmarked the system extensively........
Few of those are significant loads on a multicore CPU. Several aren't even significant loads on a single core CPU, and mentioning them at all just labels you as clueless.
clone wrote:I did everything that ppl usually do when using their computer with gaming obviously being the most demanding
The problem with that is that gaming isn't demanding[/url] on multicore CPUs, with a handful of exceptions.
clone wrote: although DVD decryption is usually somewhat stressful and for months the system was fine no hiccups, no pauses, nothing .... p.s. I knew ahead of time the cut down cache would hinder performance but I was expecting more and the cpu was never what I would have considered a good value to me.

anyway so I'm living with this cpu and I'm introduced to Intel's TaT application.

running the cpu's at TaT's 100% immediately shoots them to an indicated 85c and they clock throttled........ even running the cpu's at 50% resulted in eventual overheats and clock throttling....... this from cpu's that were powering a system under all sorts of real world loads and ran without a hiccup........50% load is too much by far and BioShock or Half Life 2 gaming for 3+ hours doesn't load the cpu more than TaT in less than 2 minutes?
What does time have to do with it when your cooling system is grossly underspecified to deal with your CPU at maximum load?
clone wrote:...... I'm not saying they weren't being stressed but I am saying what is TaT doing to kill these cpu's like nothing else can....(no question mark it's rhetorical)... and not just somewhat more but the synthetic results didn't reflect real world useage nor even remotely come close.....
That's likely because your real world loads are pretty small.
clone wrote: additionally understand I'm using a PolarFlo water cooling system with dbl 120mm fanned radiator and swiftech water pump..... this same cooling setup kept an Intel P4 running 4200+mhz under 55c, an opteron dual core running 2800mhz under 53c under full "real world" load for both.....
Maybe you did a crappy job installing it.
clone wrote:in the case of the Opteron I burned 9 DVD's in 2 hrs while gaming as much as I could while running WMP, while websurfing, while doing a 9gb File transfer trying to punish the system as it was my fist dual core..... it had 2LG DVD+-RW's, 2gb's of ram and Striped Raptors which I'm sure helped.
Burning DVDs: not a significant CPU load.
Gaming: not a significant CPU load.
WMP: not a significant CPU load for most things, and certianly not for anything that you could do while gaming.
Webserving: not a significant CPU load
file transfer: not a significant CPU load.

Sounds like you were stressing just about everything except the CPU!
clone wrote:anyway so I figure "well let's see what TaT say's I can do for an overclock without overheating?"..... the results 2100mhz... yes folks TaT would overheat the 2180 when under it's 100% load even with water cooling if left running long enough even at a meager 100mhz overclock and what made me consider even more was that without a doubt my cooling system was far more efficient than the stock Intel heatsink... this made me question whether TaT had any value at all but sadly by then it was too late and the damage was done.

to me TaT is entirely worthless given the 2180 would have overheated at it's stock 2000mhz with the stock heatsink had I used the tool making it worthless...... punishing the cpu to gain information is something, TaT isn't IMHO.
Sounds like you're blaming your own faulty setup on TaT.
clone wrote:
so you ran some "benchmarks", played HL2, transferred files, ripped DVDs, burned DVDs, played BioShock.... do you realize that all of these don't stress the CPU to 100%?
sigh.....usually it's a little stressfull when your running a few of them simultanious while you wait for results from one app or another.
It's far more stressful on IO. It's not a heavy CPU load. There might be several low-load apps vying for CPU time that make a dual pay off in smoothness, but the CPU still isn't loaded particularly heavily under such a workload.
I wrote earlier wrote:the problem here is relevance
1st I ran the 2180 at 3000mhz and played BioShock from Start to Finnish, I played Half Life 2 the entire series from start to finnish, I burned and decoded numerous DVD's, burned files like crazy, did file transfers, [b]benchmarked the system extensively
Intel's TaT seems to be the only problem...... does that make TaT matter?..... to me no, that TaT wouldn't allow me to overclock more than 100mhz while every other app is good with it..... does that make TaT matter?..... to me no.

IMHO TaT's worthless.[/quote]If you don't want a robust system with a decent safety margin and have no need to actually use your processor, good for you, I guess.
clone wrote:note the IMHO, it's like basing my computers overclock on running Prime 95...... if it's 100% stable at everything except Prime 95 do I really care all that much?
I'd certainly prefer avoiding that potential for instability and silent data corruption. Plenty of problems caused by CPU instability just aren't apparent immediately, even though they're still doing damage.
clone wrote:I run it to test and then consider the results as a possible issue but I usually run my overclocks higher and if I run into an issue then I go with "well Prime 95 told me it would be an issue"... the problem with TaT for me is that a 100mhz being a possible issue really hurts it's value in my eyes when it's the only application showing any potential problem.
It's the only application that you've mentioned that even approaches loading your cpu. If you can't run it, your safety margin is about nonexistent. That's scary.
clone wrote:
Stressful on I/O perhaps but not necessarily pushing the CPU to its limit. It's not indication of rock-solid stability in any event.
I guess you don't put much value in stability. I'd rather lose 5 or even 10% in performance than have a potentially flaky machine.
rock solid stability is a machine that never crashes or hiccups which was the case until.......as mentioned previously Intel's TaT.
Stability doing what? You never loaded it and apparently you don't give a hoot if your data is corrupted or not.
clone wrote:2 months no hiccups or crashes while running 3000mhz instead of the stock 2000mhz.... no overheating, no issues whatsoever.....that's a 50% overclock in place of TaT's findings which recommended 5%.
There's more to instability than crashes. Also, wtf is this 5% "recommendation" that you're pontificating about?
clone wrote:you also mentioned and issue with cooling, the only issue was with TaT, I've been running the latest Core Temp app showing a 20c lower temp for the cpu's and they've yet to exceed 51c even under synthetic load since.
What temp did they reach when testing with TaT, from Core Temp?
clone wrote:I'll make this the last post in regards to TaT...... to those who've read my posts and responded thanks but it appears many stopped reading right after 1 item or 2 and seemed to miss entirely that TaT was the only app that caused any issue while others were more interested in a lecture than offering an answer.
If anything's causing an issue of that magnitude, you're way too close to the edge of instability for the taste of most. The answer remains: make sure your cooling is up to the job.
...
mattsteg
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 15752
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Applauding the new/old variable width forums

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Wed May 28, 2008 8:28 pm

.
Last edited by clone on Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
neg
clone
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:40 am

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Thu May 29, 2008 3:32 am

Well said Clone.
@ nice overclock on the Yorkfield quad there sandygws...congrats!..... I'll bet it goes like a rocket at that speed.
Fighterpilot
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:29 am
Location: your girlfriend's bedroom...

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Sat May 31, 2008 1:07 am

Opteron 185 to 3.0GHz.
DX4-75 to 100MHz. :P
slot_one
Gerbil
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:51 am

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Sat May 31, 2008 8:39 am

Q6600 at 3.6GHZ running two Folding at Home SMP Clients 24/7 (This is 100% load) No crashes, just high PPD.

I also OC'd an Athlon X2 AM2 4000+ from 2.0GHZ to 2.97GHZ stable enough to run games and most programs... Had to back it down .05 or so to get stability in Prime95.
Image
If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.
Gerbil Jedidiah
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 3292
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm
Location: The Smoky Back Room

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:39 am

clone wrote:you never had more than opinion and blind faith.... and of course the generous use of Bold... .... all have failed you, I can understand your bias and logic but have no interest in your tone, that your wrong is just icing on the cake.


You returned a CPU you broke as defective. That's wrong. You know that it's wrong because you felt the need to justify the decision. Any argument otherwise is literally saying that software broke your CPU. That's absurb. Your overclocking with improperly installed cooling did that.

This isn't really something particularly suited for this forum, but RMAing equipment that you broke is bad. Don't do it. Furthermore, don't insult our intelligence by claiming that software did it. That's absurb.

Fighterpilot wrote:Well said Clone.


How so? He still insists that software is responsible for his CPU failure because he doesn't have any idea what a real CPU load is. That's irresponsible and entirely inaccurate. No one on a technical forum should support such a notion.
Glorious
Darth Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 7839
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:59 am

I can understand your bias and logic but have no interest in your tone,

I take it that you support the tone of reply then... :roll:
Fighterpilot
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
 
Posts: 2420
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:29 am
Location: your girlfriend's bedroom...

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:50 am

Image

That is the highest completely stable OC I can achieve. I am 99% sure it is either the motherboard or a core on the Q9450 that is holding me back. I would like to grab an E8400 to test this out, but until then a Q9450 at QX9650 speeds isn't too bad.

All my BIOS voltage settings are on normal and my vcore is set at 1.18125. Temps are around 50C when running F@H.
|Intel Q9450 @3.6 1.425v|Lapped TRUE|Gigabyte EP45-UD3P|Mushkin & Patriot 2x2gb DDR2-900|EVGA 8800 GTS 512 750/1873/1000|Antec 900|Corsair 520HX|Asus Xonar DX|
13895 3DMarks

Image
themattman
Gerbil Elite
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 792
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:34 pm
Location: PA

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:54 am

Fighterpilot wrote: take it that you support the tone of reply then...


Why does that even matter? You're not even disputing that what he said was technically incorrect and that the RMA was dishonest and wrong.

The truth is the truth. Tone doesn't have anything to do with it.
Glorious
Darth Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 7839
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:44 pm

.
Last edited by clone on Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
neg
clone
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:40 am

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:22 pm

OK I have had all of the sniping back and forth that I can take for one thread. Feel free to discuss all things related to overclocking. If you want to have a moral debate take it to R and P. Further off topic posts will be nuked on site.

Hance
Overclocking Tweaking and Cooling Moderator
Hance
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7625
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: Grace Idaho

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:38 am

clone wrote:cooling wasn't the issue.


At the risk of a nuke, this is 100% technically incorrect. If the chip is overheating under a software load, yes, your cooling is the issue. There is no way that your cooling couldn't be the issue. This isn't opinion, this is quite simply fact. If your cooling system cannot safely handle your CPU at maximum power than you need a better cooling system or you had better stop overclocking.

clone wrote:TaT had a significant part to play in the cpu's demise whether it was defective cpu or by a sudden spot overheat due to TaT's specific benching regiment


The notion that the failure was the result a "sudden spot overheat" is also baseless. The thermal gradient of even the most strenous workload (including TaT) is at most 5 or 6 degrees celsius. Reference Figure 5 at page 4 of "Temperature measurement in the Intel® CoreTM Duo Processor"

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf

So, at absolute worst, we are talking a difference of about 5 degrees. That's not nearly enough to damage the processor unless you are already running at temperatures that are borderline disasterous (not to mention completely unstable).

clone wrote:the issue was Intel's fault, Intel software and Intel CPU..... Intel agreed, end of story


Overclocking automatically means the failure is not Intel's fault, regardless of all other considerations. Operating equipment outside of its rated parameters means any failure is not the responsibility of the originating company. This is not opinion, this is fact. Not only that, but overclocking explicitly voided your warranty. As per Intel's CPU warranty publically available at:

http://download.intel.com/support/proce ... rranty.pdf

Intel wrote:Intel does not warrant that the Product will be free from design defects or errors known as “errata.”
Current characterized errata are available upon request. Further, this Limited Warranty does NOT cover:

...
any Product which has been modified or operated outside of Intel’s publicly available
specifications...


Even if Intel accepted your processor upon return, you were still violating the terms of their warranty. They just didn't know. That's not Intel "agreeing." That's just you defrauding Intel.



Mods, you can consider this sniping, but I consider it to be a necessary refutation to the falsehoods that clone has continually stated in this thread. Everything I wrote is either common sense or 100% verifiable with publically available documentation. Characterizing such a response as "sniping" will only mean that inaccuracies will be allowed to pervade these forums provided their purveyors are suitably indignant when corrected.
Glorious
Darth Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 7839
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:13 am

A few points are worth highlighting for their general relevance to overclocking.

Glorious wrote:The thermal gradient of even the most strenous workload (including TaT) is at most 5 or 6 degrees celsius. Reference Figure 5 at page 4 of "Temperature measurement in the Intel® CoreTM Duo Processor"

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf
Heat transfer within a CPU and from the CPU to the external environment is an important overclocking/cooling topic. It's also important to Intel, so they have lots of documentation on it. Heat's generated in specific areas, to a large extent, so specifications like maximum gradient are pretty useful. An overall understanding of how heat is transferred from one stage in the cooling system to the next is quite useful.
Glorious wrote:
clone wrote:the issue was Intel's fault, Intel software and Intel CPU..... Intel agreed, end of story


Overclocking automatically means the failure is not Intel's fault, regardless of all other considerations. Operating equipment outside of its rated parameters means any failure is not the responsibility of the originating company. This is not opinion, this is fact. Not only that, but overclocking explicitly voided your warranty. As per Intel's CPU warranty publically available at:

http://download.intel.com/support/proce ... rranty.pdf

Intel wrote:Intel does not warrant that the Product will be free from design defects or errors known as “errata.”
Current characterized errata are available upon request. Further, this Limited Warranty does NOT cover:

...
any Product which has been modified or operated outside of Intel’s publicly available
specifications...
Intel's warranty makes it pretty clear what they do and do not cover. Explicitly listed under "non-covered" are any processors run outside of specifications. This leads to a "you break it, you buy it" situation. When you turn up the clocks/voltage, you're taking responsibility for the consequences. A lot of things are generally quite safe, but exceptions exist and plenty of things are decidedly unsafe, especially when you start manipulating voltage. The bargain made by the ethical overclocker is that increased performance comes attached at the hip with increased responsibility. Sometimes that responsibility includes voluntarily eating the cost of something that you broke, even when you could bamboozle your way into a free replacement. The alternative, obtaining free product under false pretenses from a company that most of us buy things from, raises prices for everyone.
...
mattsteg
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 15752
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Applauding the new/old variable width forums

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:41 pm

After reviewing this thread, I've realized that one of the reasons for clone believing TaT to be a flawed application is likely based on a misunderstanding of where thermal measurements come from in a PC. This is actually a very, very common problem that needs further explanation.

clone wrote:you also mentioned and issue with cooling, the only issue was with TaT, I've been running the latest Core Temp app showing a 20c lower temp for the cpu's and they've yet to exceed 51c even under synthetic load since.


The most likely explanation for this observation isn't technically a difference in measurement. It's simply a difference in where that temperature is being read from, or what stored value that measurement is being computed against.

You can get CPU temperatures from two places these days. You can either get them from analog diode on the motherboard near the CPU that's intepreted by the BIOS, or you can get them from the DTS (digital thermal sensor) that's on the die of the processor.

If these programs got the CPU temperature from differing places than obviously the values could be different without anything being wrong with either program. Not only is the diode on the motherboard not actually on the CPU, but the temperature provided comes from differing circuitry measured by differing algorithms in the BIOS. In your particular case, however, both of those programs get it from the DTS by reading a MSR (machine-specific register) on the processor.

But this means we run into a different problem, which is what stored value that measurement is being computed against. What you read from the MSR in Intel's DTS isn't actually a temperature. It's a counter that counts down to TjMax (or Tjunction). This value isn't explicitly stored. The published TjMax for mobile Core2s is 85c. The TjMax for desktop processors is not published and differs between cores and maybe even steppings, but for conroes it's widely speculated (and confirmed by experiment) to be 105c.

This immediately explains the 20c difference. You calculate temperature by subtracting the DTS counter from TjMax. Intel's TaT (thermal analysis tool) gives you the 20c higher core temp because it's using the 85c TjMax value. This is because TaT is intended for use on mobile processors even though the processor in this case is really a conroe with a real TjMax of 105. Core Temp gives you the lower (and correct) core temp because it's using the appropriate TjMax for your processor.



So TaT really isn't at fault. It's reading the exact same MSR as CoreTemp, the only issue is that it is applying the wrong TjMax to it. The lesson here is to try and understand what your tools are doing before dismissing them as flawed because their results appear to be inaccurate. TaT is designed for mobile processors, not desktop ones. This is why it will identify any desktop processor as a Pentium M. Using the right tool for the job is essential, and when using a tool that's not specifically designed for the job it's essentially that you understand what it's doing so that the result is correctly undertood.
Glorious
Darth Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 7839
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:15 pm

Locked until I either have time to clean up the mess or delete it.
Hance
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7625
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: Grace Idaho

Re: Post your Highest OC'

Postposted on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:57 pm

After a couple of PM's back and forth between Kevin and Myself we have decided to unlock the topic and leave it as is. Kevin feels like the tone of the posts after my warning was inline with the topic and in retrospect in reading them again he is right. My apologies for over reacting and locking the thread.

Hance.
Hance
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7625
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: Grace Idaho

PreviousNext

Return to Overclocking, Tweaking, & Cooling

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest