shutting down

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shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:38 pm

I never thought I'd be making this post, but due to a lot of factors I'm going to fall out of the race. Rising electricity costs, crazy point totals from buggy clients from stanford, it's just too much to handle and maintain. I liked folding when it was fire and forget, there's way too much babysitting involved now.

I'm not going to shut down completely, but my PPD is going to take a major hit. it was fun ruling the roost (or almost ruling) all these years, and who knows, maybe stanford will get their act together and I'll take my revenge someday . . .
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:30 pm

Kudos for you to outlasting me, but I got fed up for all the same reasons...

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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:41 pm

I've made a few attempts at really pushing my systems to fold, but every time one of my dual core boxes finishes a WU and tried to upload the results and get a new unit, the client crashes. I've been unable to fiddle and get it to work, and I don't have the time to caress it any more.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:22 pm

I know where you're coming from, Leor. It's been almost two years since the SMP client was released and we're still fiddling with a beta client. We'll certainly miss your contribution around these parts, but hopefully we'll see you back stronger and ready to kick some UGN tails. :lol:
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:33 pm

FireGryphon wrote:I've made a few attempts at really pushing my systems to fold, but every time one of my dual core boxes finishes a WU and tried to upload the results and get a new unit, the client crashes. I've been unable to fiddle and get it to work, and I don't have the time to caress it any more.

+1

I enjoyed tuning my installations for a while, but when 25% of my time and electricity is wasted due to problems not of my own making I get pretty frustrated.

The reliability of the client/server applications does not seem consistent with the level of commitment from the donors ($15M/year in electricity and $100M in capital equipment), nor with Stanford's $18B endowment.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:44 pm

You'll be missed Leor. :( I bet you come back though, you've been doing it too long. :wink:
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:46 pm

I raise my glass to a worthy competitor. Slainte mhath!

I remember when we were toe to toe climbing into the top 20 before you finally just left me behind like I was standing still. I was scraping together anything and everythng I could get my hands on- hand me down Celeron's and Duron's just to put up a couple of points and try to hold off the inevitable.

I definately understand your frustration, both with the SMP client's stability and also with the way points have gone so heavily to GPU's. If I didn't happen to work in an environment where I have access to a handful of Quad's with high end consumer GPU's in them, I wouldn't even be close to competitive.

Here's hoping that the folding 'itch' keeps gnawing at you, and you'll be back in full force sometime in the future.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:54 pm

leor wrote:I never thought I'd be making this post, but due to a lot of factors I'm going to fall out of the race. Rising electricity costs, crazy point totals from buggy clients from stanford, it's just too much to handle and maintain. I liked folding when it was fire and forget, there's way too much babysitting involved now.

I'm not going to shut down completely, but my PPD is going to take a major hit. it was fun ruling the roost (or almost ruling) all these years, and who knows, maybe stanford will get their act together and I'll take my revenge someday . . .



Hey Leor, sorry to hear the news. :( I had to take some time off from folding for a while when I moved to Ohio. I hope conditions change for you in the near future and you find folding with the GPU client more rewarding. It seems to be pretty stable. :D

Be sure not to drop out of the forum. I'd miss your barbed retorts an awful lot. :P
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:41 am

Tis a sad day for team TR and folding in general when King Leor goes the way of drfish and scales back his folding effort. I remember the days when the then Captain Leor vanquished the White Whale, had his way with the mighty meat dish, and finally wrestled the crown from the wily drfish who's hardware seemed invincible.
Long live the King!

I too, feel the pain of the 6.22 Windows SMP client. Even compared to the issue riddled 5.91 client, the 6.22 is a train wreck. With a client stop and restart it routinely drops a considerable percentage of performance (from ~1360 to ~1100 PPD on my C2D @ 2.4GHz), I recall losing 65% of a workunit because I restarted without the -advmethods flag, and the damn thing doesn't even recognize the upload acknowledge message from the 171.64.65.64 server! While an all in one client sounds good on paper, it flies in the face of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!) principle. Please, please, give us a solid and stable piece of dedicated SMP Windows software. It seems a small request considering the amount of hardware and energy expense we give you.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:29 am

Sad to see you go, but agree 100% with your sentiments. Maybe we at TR need to take a hard look at other projects?
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:06 am

I'm going to speculate that the big GPU points (and the supposedly significant work that is done in those WUs) are attracting more focus right now than the SMP.

@sluggo: Stanford is a big institution, that 18 billion dollar endowment needs to be spread all over the place. Why do you always seem to be pecking at that? That Folding thing is just a small research team out of all the research/scholarship/teaching/facility effort over there...
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:36 am

You know, I am not a grizzled veteran of the "Folding Scene", but I have been at it for several years. In those years, I have seen the clients and WU mix vary. Points go up and points go down. Clients have issues and they get resolved ................... eventually.

I remember when the SMP client first came out and everyone thought it was great because of the point gain over the console client. :P Now we have the GPU client and it is better than the SMP client for the same reason - more points. :o

Yes, we are competing, but the competition is a side light to the research. The competition increase the "Fun Factor" for folding and each new iteration of the client or development of a new client brings a change to the Folding landscape.

The new GPU client is providing a new avenue for research into diseases that take away our loved ones. :( There is another reason why we fold.

The Linux SMP client is a stable points producer. :D

Griping is okay, but don't quit. I don't want to see a tide of people switching off their folding clients because the SMP client is buggy. Post your concerns in the F@H forum. Let your voices be heard. And yes, the F@H folks do monitor a lot of other forums to see what the masses are saying about the clients. Don't make them go chase around to find there is a concern.

People in this forum invested in new equipment when the SMP client came out so they could ride the new points wave. You can do the same with the GPU client. :D And the really cool part of it is you can turn your old single core systems that became obsolete when the SMP client became the rage, into folding giants with a cheap G92 video card.

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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:42 am

Pachyuromys - funny guy.

Jeff - I'm not going to do a full shut down, just relegate my efforts to things that don't stress me out or take large amounts of my time. If a tide of people switch off their clients because of buggy software, then maybe the Pande group will make it a priority to fix their crappy software.

Has anyone else noticed I was the last of the old guard (the 2001-2002 crew) who was still putting up big points? There's a reason they lost the original crew.

----

farmpuma edit: The Pachyuromys comment refers to a post which has been split into its own thread, "Those opposed to grid computing."
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:03 pm

The White Whale (long since vanquished) tips his cap. I moved over to the sidelines long ago, so I really respect your staying with it this long.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:35 am

Sad to see another old time folder toning down. The more recent SMP clients are more problematic than the older one(around when dr. fish decided he has had enough) for me that my points went from 10K+ consistently to barely 2k in the last month or so...
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:53 am

leor wrote:who knows, maybe stanford will get their act together and I'll take my revenge someday . . .


I would personally like to see your come back...You been one of the best members, TR folding team has. :)
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:29 am

leor wrote:Has anyone else noticed I was the last of the old guard (the 2001-2002 crew) who was still putting up big points? There's a reason they lost the original crew.


Let's not forget Juggs, he's been around forever and never even posts...
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:59 pm

Flying Fox wrote:@sluggo: Stanford is a big institution, that 18 billion dollar endowment needs to be spread all over the place. Why do you always seem to be pecking at that? That Folding thing is just a small research team out of all the research/scholarship/teaching/facility effort over there...

I'm always pecking at that? Unless I've been sleep-posting, I believe that was the second time (in over 1k posts) that I've mentioned Stanford in any regard. Wait, I tell a lie. I recently posted something complimentary on one of their AI projects. So three times.

I mention Stanford's endowment because I don't have $18B in the bank, and the $1k I was on schedule to spend this year to support folding represents a not-inconsiderable commitment of my resources. Toss in the time I was spending keeping my clients running and I began to wonder if this was the right way for me to support research into the disease that killed my father. Watching about 25% of my commitment go to waste made me decide to look elsewhere or at least wait until the current problems with the clients were resolved.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:02 pm

sluggo wrote:Watching about 25% of my commitment go to waste made me decide to look elsewhere or at least wait until the current problems with the clients were resolved.

According to Stanford the single core clients are still working on WUs that have scientific meaning (unless they flat out lie about it), so you can stick with that. It's not pretty points-wise, but it is important to note that we need all kinds of WUs being worked on because the represent different molecules (single core, SMP, PS3, AMD GPU1, AMD GPU2, Nvidia GPU2).

Edit:
jeffry55 wrote:The Linux SMP client is a stable points producer. :D

The A2's are still failing for me on my VM. I have to trash a couple of WUs in order to continue.:-?
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Why not take a break instead?

Postposted on Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:40 pm

Noble leor

I thought something was amiss when aprstorm pulled in behind you on the top 20 list. The good drfish pointed me to this thread. artstorm is a small diverse group of Folders spread from Richmond BC Canada to Portland Oregon USA . We fold on PS3, Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows clients.

Hopefully you'll feel better after a break. Your total points will not be quickly surpassed.

Best wishes to you, Folder!
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:31 pm

Leor!!! Fear not. I have found a remedy for your PPD problem!!!

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Join the collective :D
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Re: Why not take a break instead?

Postposted on Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:03 pm

arpstorm wrote:Noble leor

I thought something was amiss when aprstorm pulled in behind you on the top 20 list. The good drfish pointed me to this thread. artstorm is a small diverse group of Folders spread from Richmond BC Canada to Portland Oregon USA . We fold on PS3, Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows clients.

Hopefully you'll feel better after a break. Your total points will not be quickly surpassed.

Best wishes to you, Folder!

thanks, i always had respect for you guys.

I just don't see the point anymore, I'm going to stick with the simple CPU client and not worry about points. I could go spend 1,000 dollars on GPUs to put in my client's machines and get like 60,000 more points a day.

that's just silly.
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Re: Why not take a break instead?

Postposted on Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:32 pm

leor wrote:I just don't see the point anymore, I'm going to stick with the simple CPU client and not worry about points. I could go spend 1,000 dollars on GPUs to put in my client's machines and get like 60,000 more points a day.

that's just silly.

But you are GPU Folding on your own rig still, right? ;)
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Re: Why not take a break instead?

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:15 pm

Flying Fox wrote:But you are GPU Folding on your own rig still, right? ;)

nope, the added power draw is pretty big, for the moment I'm not even CPU folding on my own rig, that's 8 cores going to waste! {shudder}
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:44 am

Oh my. Well once on the side line you kinda stay there. Guess it's time for the youngens to take over.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:37 am

dragongoddess wrote:Oh my. Well once on the side line you kinda stay there. Guess it's time for the youngens to take over.

aside from buggy clients that require loads of babysitting, the new point conventions make all the work i put in the past 6 years almost pointless.

why bust my ass for 6 years with over 100 CPUs if i can equal that point total in 6 months with a few GPUs?
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:52 am

One could say for science though clients that crash really doesn't help science, though there is the single core client which I guess is stable.

Does that mean you'll have to remove your image now not that it is no longer one man vs one million gerbils?
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:10 pm

leor wrote:aside from buggy clients that require loads of babysitting, the new point conventions make all the work i put in the past 6 years almost pointless.

The new point conventions don't somehow magically erase science that was done based on all those older WUs you turned in.

leor wrote:why bust my ass for 6 years with over 100 CPUs if i can equal that point total in 6 months with a few GPUs?

Hmm... I would actually be a lot more worried if F@h didn't produce new clients to take advantage of newer, faster hardware. Technical advances are inevitable; and yes, unfortunately that means that older hardware will tend to fall behind the curve.

The team certainly appreciates all the hard work you put in, and you should be proud of your accomplishment. I'm sorry you feel the way you do; but I must respectfully disagree with your reasoning.

FWIW I'm no longer a "heavy hitter" on the team either; the dedicated "crate farm" is retired. But I still keep F@h running on machines which would be powered up anyway, and try to check once a day for stuck clients. With the colder weather, I may even fire up a couple of dedicated systems for the winter, since the electricity consumed will be helping heat the house instead of fighting with the A/C.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:26 pm

i understand where you're coming from, JBI, but my 2 gripes are the instability of the new clients and the disproportionate amount of points they are rewarded. i didn't rest on my laurels, everyone here knows i was always putting the client on better and better hardware, and I'm not disputing the benefits of the research.

i'm saying they killed the game. they took the fun out of it.

as it stands, i'm still contributing over 50 CPUs, I'm still in the top producers list, and I'm not folding on one GPU and have no SMP clients running.

things used to run in a logical progression, everything has gotten so "extreme" now, and has become so time consuming the benefit outweighs the cost at this point.
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Re: shutting down

Postposted on Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:27 pm

FWIW, the SMP client seems to have stabilized a bit lately. It was brutal a few months ago.
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