Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

How we justify all that high-dollar hardware.

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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:52 pm

Awesome. It's about time for a lawsuit.

shacknews wrote:Spore DRM Prompts $5M Class Action Lawsuit
What purchasers are not told is that, included in the purchase, installation, and operation of Spore is a second, undisclosed program. The name of the second program is SecuROM, which is a forum of Digital Rights Management (DRM) for computer games. Although consumers are told that the game uses access control and copy protection technology, consumers are not told that this technology is actually an entirely separate, stand-alone program which will download, install and operate on their computers along with the Spore download. Consumers are given no control, rights or options over SecuROM. The program is uninstallable. Once installed, it becomes a permanent part of the consumer's software portfolio. Even if the consumer uninstalls Spore and entirely deletes it from their computer, SecuROM remains a fixture in their computer unless and until the consumer completely wipes their hard drive through reformatting or replacement of the drive.

Nowhere in any of EA's discussions, responses or explanations of its DRM did EA disclose that the Spore disk contained a separately install, stand alone, uninstallable DRM program which would install itself to the command and control center of the computer and oversee function and operation on the computer, preventing certain user actions, preventing certain user programs from operating or disrupting hardware operations.
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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:09 pm

updated with Far Cry 2.

my "to buy list" is getting shorter and shorter.
I'll be super annoyed if StarCraft II and Fear 2 come with DRM that prevents me from buying.

EDIT:
actually the "uninstall" thing on Far Cry 2 makes it a grey area for me.. i may still give in to that one.
problem is.. will i always remember to uninstall games before i do a rebuild?
Last edited by danny e. on Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:11 pm

Hoser wrote:
danny e. wrote: I bought COD 4 a while back and still have not played it.


Giev yourself a smack and get that game installed. Even though it's very linear and too short (imo) it's still a great game. The MP is really good too.


meh. it bored me after the first 10 minutes.
I guess I'm more of a "go it alone" player... not into babysitting.. or having people babysit me.
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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:31 pm

Nearly every game for PC comes with Securom or something similar...
unless you're Stardock and have taken a stand against invasive DRM. See Galactic Civilizations 2 or Sins of a Solar Empire
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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:40 pm

You can add Red Alert 3 to this list.
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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:52 am

Owners of Electronic Arts published titles such as Spore and Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 may end up banned from playing their games if they get banned from any EA-moderated forum, according to this post from moderator eaapoc:
Your forum account will be directly tied to your Master EA Account, so if we ban you on the forums, you would be banned from the game as well since the login process is the same. And you'd actually be banned from your other EA games as well since its all tied to your account. So if you have SPORE and Red Alert 3 and you get yourself banned on our forums or in-game, well, your SPORE account would be banned to. It's all one in the same, so I strongly reccommend people play nice and act mature.

Similar threats emerged earlier this year, when Spore forumites were threatened with bans for discussing the title's controversial DRM, though EA later stepped in to clarify that the threat stemmed from an "over-zealous community volunteer" and were "absolutely not true or in-line with EA's moderation policy."

"What if some moderator goes off on a power trip?" asked Shacker Pugnate, who tipped us off to the news. "Does he seriously have the right to block access to software you legally purchased?"

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55647

who cares its a power trip or someone being an ass on the forums.
I'm fairly sure if I went on the "official ford forums" and said fords suck and talked about how they all crashed and burned, they wouldnt come to my house and take my ford away.
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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:47 pm

Dead Space looks promising (hope the PC version's controls are good) but will probably be DRM'd by EA as well. :(
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (do not buy list)

Postposted on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:46 am

STALKER Clear Sky installs Tages DRM. It limits installs, no way to uninstall to get one back and they dont' even TELL YOU how many installs you have used or have left. I had to email them and provide them with some stupid dump file for them to up my install limit while chasing down issues with bad RAM.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (do not buy list)

Postposted on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:25 pm

Dead Space is an awsome game on the pc. After you disable Vsync ingame and force it through the vid drivers. IMO it is worth buying.

Stalker Clear Sky - since its available via Steam then you should not have to worry about an install limit. Plus I thought install limits were limits on the number of pcs it can be installed on not the number of times you can actually install it on 1 machine.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (do not buy list)

Postposted on Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:40 am

anyone know if Stalker Clear Sky actually requires net access for play?
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (do not buy list)

Postposted on Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:16 pm

To add to the list, GRID has SecuROM but AFAIK has no install limits.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (do not buy list)

Postposted on Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:22 pm

NeronetFi wrote:Stalker Clear Sky - since its available via Steam then you should not have to worry about an install limit. Plus I thought install limits were limits on the number of pcs it can be installed on not the number of times you can actually install it on 1 machine.



That's still a limitation. I still install and play games that I purchased back when I had my 386 computer back in the day, and lots of people here do that, too. I still like those games, and play them from time to time. If there was a computer install limit, those games would effectively be dead.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:15 pm

danny e. wrote:08.) Fallout 3: SecuROM - no install limit


Actually, I'd like to point out that Fallout 3 has one of the least intrusive drm schemes I have seen.

While it uses securom, it only triggers when you run the launcher (for config).

The game executable itself does not have Securom - in fact, you don't even need to have the DVD in the drive to play the game, only to change settings.

And no activation/server authentication BS, either.

Thumbs up to Bethsoft.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:52 pm

Voldenuit wrote:
danny e. wrote:08.) Fallout 3: SecuROM - no install limit


Actually, I'd like to point out that Fallout 3 has one of the least intrusive drm schemes I have seen.

While it uses securom, it only triggers when you run the launcher (for config).

The game executable itself does not have Securom - in fact, you don't even need to have the DVD in the drive to play the game, only to change settings.

And no activation/server authentication BS, either.

Thumbs up to Bethsoft.

yeah.. I'm removing that one from the list as I want to focus on more annoying ones...
not against copy protection.. just annoying methods that hurt the consumer. disc checks arent that big of a deal.

game crashes because of DRM is also annoying.. so if the Fallout 3 SecuRom implementation does cause that i might add it back to the list.
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Re: Game DRM thread - annoying DRM (do not buy list)

Postposted on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:18 am

flybywire wrote:You can add Red Alert 3 to this list.


This was/is a huge disappointment to me personally because I just loved and played Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge to death back in the day. If not for the authentication and limited number of installs, I would have bought Red Alert 3 when it first came out, but now I'm not going to buy it at all unless they reverse policy on this.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:11 pm

Well Crysis Wars doesn't work now. Thank you very much SecuROM. Says I'm over my install limit, while I'm still on my first install. Going through the process of getting it re-activated. This is so **** retarded. Because I paid legitimately I can't play, but some a-hole who pirated it is playing just fine.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:25 am

So this list is only for SecuRom DRM?
No one use StarForce and SafeDisc any more?
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:10 am

I blaim the Internet for all these DRM problems, without it most of the wouldn't work! :D
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:58 pm

fpsduck wrote:So this list is only for SecuRom DRM?
No one use StarForce and SafeDisc any more?

no.. i'd include any game that people know of that uses intrusive drm. to qualify for annoying it has to authenticate... so require internet connection in order to simply use the product you bought.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:27 pm

added Dead Space
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:37 pm

that does it.
I'm NEVER going to pay for another game until AFTER it's been out for a while and I know what DRM it's using.

I passed on Bioshock, Far Cry 2, Stalker: Clear Sky, and Crysis Warhead because I knew they all had annoying DRM before I would have purchased.
Unfortunately I made the assumption that FEAR 2 would not.. but alas it will not even install without installing STEAM. what a bunch of fracking retards.
I dont want steam.
I dont want your fracking game to need internet access to run.
I paid 50 bucks for your fracking piece of carp. .. it should work out of the box without a dumb pile of crappy steam account.


if i had the time I think I'd file a huge lawsuit against all game distributors for conspiring to be morons.

Also, the box does not state those requirements.
I think I might just try to return this since I'm completely furious... probably not returnable since it's opened which will make me even more mad.

EDIT: i was wrong. there is fine print on the box that says STEAMing pile of crap is required. drat.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:14 pm

I've decided to simply stop buying any games whatsoever that require an internet connection.
that rules out any game requiring STEAM.

i cant believe the idiocy of people in the decision-making positions of some of these companies.

they should hire me to get DRM done right without stupid internet connection required.
Basically, STEAM means you're paying 40-50 bucks for a game that you can not resell. As is true with some of the other DRM schemes.

I dont recall ever actually sellling a game I've played.. but it's the principal of the thing for me. kinda like how i vowed back in 2001 never to buy a Creative product due to their drivers causing issues on AMD boards. I've stuck to it.. and am sure I will continue to.

this one I'm not sure how long i'll last.. it irritates me to no end as I dont mind tossing some money around at games, but really get annoyed at dumb requirements that have no logical reason for existing.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:49 pm

Danny E., I have to agree whole-heartedly with your last two posts. I have given up on modern gaming on the PC entirely and have already disconnected my gaming PC a little while ago. Right now it's just sitting collecting dust. Too bad since it has a Core 2 Duo E6400, 2GB RAM, 9600GT and a 22" widescreen LCD and I was doing good with it. I still enjoy some of the "classics" like SoF 2, Diablo 2, etc., but my laptop runs these games just fine. However, I've decided that the PC gaming industry has stepped on my toes too much now, especially since I'm one who goes out and buys all of my games and supports the industry. For me it's also the principle of it. I know it's unpopular to bash Steam around here (granted people feel religiously about it one way or another), but rather than come up with a "middle ground" that would make everyone happy (if such a thing is possible), I have decided to do the majority of my gaming on the consoles now. First person shooters are better with a keyboard and mouse, but I've done alright with the gamepad and I'm also enjoying more selection of games in general on the consoles. Now I'm hearing that the PC version of F.E.A.R. 2 requires Steam. Sheesh.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:02 pm

So you call the makers of FEAR 2 "idiots" for using Steam, but with games like Mass Effect that essentially limit you more tightly and even give you a 3 install limit, you have nothing to add. If anything, this should make FEAR 2 even more popular, yet you called those guys idiots.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:17 pm

I think it's a bit of a stretch to call steam DRM.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:20 pm

danny e. wrote:i cant believe the idiocy of people in the decision-making positions of some of these companies.
I can't believe the idiocy of some other people.
danny e. wrote:they should hire me to get DRM done right without stupid internet connection required.
I asked how your magic DRM scheme would work almost 5 months ago and have yet to get a reply.
danny e. wrote:Basically, STEAM means you're paying 40-50 bucks for a game that you can not resell. As is true with some of the other DRM schemes.

I dont recall ever actually sellling a game I've played.. but it's the principal of the thing for me.
If you want to pay extra and/or refuse to buy things you want because they won't let you do things you never do anyway, go ahead. It's a pretty silly stance to take, though.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:45 pm

danny e. wrote:I've decided to simply stop buying any games whatsoever that require an internet connection.
that rules out any game requiring STEAM.

Come over to the dark side. :wink:
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:13 pm

mattsteg wrote:
danny e. wrote:i cant believe the idiocy of people in the decision-making positions of some of these companies.
I can't believe the idiocy of some other people.


I don't think any of us needs to resort to name calling now do we?

mattsteg wrote:
danny e. wrote:I dont recall ever actually sellling a game I've played.. but it's the principal of the thing for me.
If you want to pay extra and/or refuse to buy things you want because they won't let you do things you never do anyway, go ahead. It's a pretty silly stance to take, though.



Personally I think Steam is the best DRM (if you do call it DRM) that currently exists. Other forms of DRM pretty much restrict you from re-selling the product, so it's not like it's unique to Steam Games. 3 installs means that there isn't anyone who would buy it because there is a max of 2 remaining, and that's if it's tracked properly. Steam allows unlimited installs to any machine you are currently at with your Steam ID. You could always set up every new game with a unique steam ID, and if you want just see if someone wants to buy the Steam ID....
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:46 am

So.. I got Dirt 2 with my 5850 and gave it a little try. meh. Maybe if I had real controls I'd like it but I've never been a big fan of racing games.

At any rate the game has locked up a few times on me. Once when first starting and once when trying to exit. So I look at task manager and notice the dang game is using SecuROM.
yay. idiots.

At least I didnt pay for this caRp.
Last edited by danny e. on Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Annoying game DRM thread - (buyer beware list)

Postposted on Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:53 am

danny e. wrote:So.. I got Dirt 2 with my 5850 and gave it a little try. meh. Maybe if I had real controls I'd like it but I've never been a big fan of racing games.

At any rate the game has locked up a few times on me. Once when first starting and once when trying to exit. So I look at task manager and notice the dang game is using SecuROM.
yay. idiots.

At least I didnt pay for this carp.

as full disclosure, I'm not sure that the SecuRom is what caused the game to lock up but I really dont care. It's the games fault one way or another.

Also Travis Pastrana is annoying. I want to punch him in the face.
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