Am I crazy? New SFF build

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Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:15 am

Ok so here is the part list:

SILVERSTONE Sugo SG01-BF Black Aluminum / Steel MicroATX Desktop SFF Chassis Computer Case - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-UD2H LGA 775 Intel G45 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply compatible with core i7 - Retail
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5 - Retail
Western Digital RE3 WD2502ABYS-01B7A0 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

My possible cooling options are this with a larger fan pulling air up. or this with the fan under it blowing air up.

The question is am I crazy for thinking I can keep this cool in a case this small? I was going to add some additional case fans to help get some air into the case.

My other thought is to give it a try and if it doesn't work switch the case to this. I also considered their SG04 but I would run into the same issue of having to use the PSU to be the primary heat heat removal device. It would not be that big of a loss if I had to, but I just vastly prefer SFF cases. But I really want the quad for virtaulization purposes.

Thoughts appreciated.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:36 am

Is there a specific reason you're not getting an i7 CPU? I can't imagine spending 270 on an intel CPU and it not be i7. Sure you're saving $100 with a cheaper mobo and RAM, but that isn't too big of a deal when you're getting into a whole system.

And that hard drive is EXPENSIVE! How about this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136319

Are you planning on running stock?
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:38 am

Are you OC'ing this? I ask because I honestly think you will be fine if you keep everything at stock.

my sister bought that case for her HTPC build. She got an Antec modular PSU and a networking card and a blu-ray drive. I gave her the GeForce 8200 board, an X2-4200, an 80GB drive (she told me she put another 500GB HDD in there). The only thing she doesn't have is the video card. According to her (and she is a stickler for noise) the system is whisper quiet with everything going. She uses the system for alot of movie watching, streaming music and Tivo.

I wouldn't be so worried about the system being cool. The Sugo line are well made cases.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:47 am

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:Is there a specific reason you're not getting an i7 CPU? I can't imagine spending 270 on an intel CPU and it not be i7. Sure you're saving $100 with a cheaper mobo and RAM, but that isn't too big of a deal when you're getting into a whole system.


The only MicroATX board I can find is a DFI board. I am really, really, NOT a fan of theirs. So for now I'll wait. Also the cost for the board and CPU was $300 more.

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:And that hard drive is EXPENSIVE! How about this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136319


Your drive is more expensive, also I don't need 640GB I have 2.5 TB spinning in the basement so all I need is room for games, apps, and the OS. I'm going from 74GB to 250GB I think I'll make it. ;)

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:Are you planning on running stock?


And Yes I am not overclocking. Sorry I simply don't have the time to mess with it. I want a box that runs and runs well. I don't want to have to keep fiddling with it. My OCing days are long past.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:53 am

lex-ington wrote:Are you OC'ing this? I ask because I honestly think you will be fine if you keep everything at stock.

my sister bought that case for her HTPC build. She got an Antec modular PSU and a networking card and a blu-ray drive. I gave her the GeForce 8200 board, an X2-4200, an 80GB drive (she told me she put another 500GB HDD in there). The only thing she doesn't have is the video card. According to her (and she is a stickler for noise) the system is whisper quiet with everything going. She uses the system for alot of movie watching, streaming music and Tivo.

I wouldn't be so worried about the system being cool. The Sugo line are well made cases.


Good news, I know the cases are worth it, I am just concerned that the quad will generate too much heat (couple that with the vid card) and the everything will just get too hot since I won't have enough avenues to evacuate heat. As I mentioned not OCing this.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:58 am

z-man wrote:
Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:Is there a specific reason you're not getting an i7 CPU? I can't imagine spending 270 on an intel CPU and it not be i7. Sure you're saving $100 with a cheaper mobo and RAM, but that isn't too big of a deal when you're getting into a whole system.


The only MicroATX board I can find is a DFI board. I am really, really, NOT a fan of theirs. So for now I'll wait. Also the cost for the board and CPU was $300 more.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131371

As for getting too hot, without oc'ing I bet you'll be ok. Sure you might not get pretty low temps like you might get in a desktop case with better ventilation but the temps will probably be well within spec.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:39 am

MadManOriginal wrote:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131371

As for getting too hot, without oc'ing I bet you'll be ok. Sure you might not get pretty low temps like you might get in a desktop case with better ventilation but the temps will probably be well within spec.


Interesting it didn't come up when I was searching over the weekend. I'll price out the changes and see what I get. But even so I have no issue with the q9550, it will be a massive upgrade over the X2 I have now.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:43 am

If I were you, I'd almost be waiting for AMD's AM3 Quad cores to come out, so you can build up off of AMD's newest socket and DDR3, for more upgrade potential, especially if you're willing to consider mATX. This is the pain of not having Intel's i5 out yet, otherwise it would be getting the nod; it's not like i7 is actually worth the price, overall, unless you have use for it's specific performance attributes, nor is the Q9550 for a new system, in comparison with an overclocked AMD system.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:50 am

z-man wrote:
MadManOriginal wrote:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131371

As for getting too hot, without oc'ing I bet you'll be ok. Sure you might not get pretty low temps like you might get in a desktop case with better ventilation but the temps will probably be well within spec.


Interesting it didn't come up when I was searching over the weekend. I'll price out the changes and see what I get. But even so I have no issue with the q9550, it will be a massive upgrade over the X2 I have now.


That was actually the board I had in mind for you. The review I read about it was quite good. Found it in the TR shortbread.

I guess it boils down to what you'll be doing in VM, how much CPU horsepower you'll need to do it, and whether or not you want a future upgrade path.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:57 am

Airmantharp wrote:in comparison with an overclocked AMD system.


Sorry but you missed the previous posts. If you are going to compare my build with and OC'd system then the comparison is rendered invalid. I will state one more time. I do not want to mess with overclocking anything. Those days are long past me and I simply do not want to spend the time or energy. You are not going to convince me otherwise.

Also I am avoiding the AMD platform since I am very tired of chipset issues I have encountered. Sorry but I am going back to the Intel camp since I don't feel like wasting time there either.

I also don't subscribe to the wait until X. If I had done that back in the day I first started buying computers I would have spent the last 19 years still waiting to buy a computer. I have a budget of $900 right now. I will buy as much tech as I can squeeze into it and go from there. Either system will last me a long time. The X2 is pushing 3.5 years now. I expect either the q9550 or the i7 to do the same.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:01 am

You're right, I did miss that- if it's between i7 and the Q9550, well, if you can swing the i7, swing, if not, Q9550- all that's left is to create two competing builds and post so that they can be checked.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:05 am

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:That was actually the board I had in mind for you. The review I read about it was quite good. Found it in the TR shortbread.

I guess it boils down to what you'll be doing in VM, how much CPU horsepower you'll need to do it, and whether or not you want a future upgrade path.


The Gig gets good reviews also. Upgrade paths are also not a concern. It seems about every three years I just get a 'whole' new box anyways. If anything I drop in more ram or in case of the last box replaced a failed vid card (which is the only reason I upgraded it).

As for VM I just want the extra horsepower to run enough things and not bog the system down. I have been doing a lot of virtualization at work and I just want the head room to run 2, 3 maybe 4 OSes at the same time and not have to worry about CPU and RAM for the primary OS.

Also the ASUS MB takes the price $250 over my budget. Since I have to get different RAM and what not. My biggest concern was keeping whatever quad I put in there properly cooled.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:16 am

z-man wrote:As for VM I just want the extra horsepower to run enough things and not bog the system down. I have been doing a lot of virtualization at work and I just want the head room to run 2, 3 maybe 4 OSes at the same time and not have to worry about CPU and RAM for the primary OS.

Also the ASUS MB takes the price $250 over my budget. Since I have to get different RAM and what not. My biggest concern was keeping whatever quad I put in there properly cooled.


Sounds like you want the Q9550 with 8GB of ram. I have two VMs in my Vista64 setup and noticed a nice increase in "speediness" with the extra 4GB. Are you running Vista64?

I don't know if this has changed, but when I created my environments VMServer didn't work in Vista64. Luckily, I was able to use VMplayer. Not sure what software you'd be using, but thought I'd throw that out there in case it's helpful.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:26 am

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:
z-man wrote:As for VM I just want the extra horsepower to run enough things and not bog the system down. I have been doing a lot of virtualization at work and I just want the head room to run 2, 3 maybe 4 OSes at the same time and not have to worry about CPU and RAM for the primary OS.

Also the ASUS MB takes the price $250 over my budget. Since I have to get different RAM and what not. My biggest concern was keeping whatever quad I put in there properly cooled.


Sounds like you want the Q9550 with 8GB of ram. I have two VMs in my Vista64 setup and noticed a nice increase in "speediness" with the extra 4GB. Are you running Vista64?

I don't know if this has changed, but when I created my environments VMServer didn't work in Vista64. Luckily, I was able to use VMplayer. Not sure what software you'd be using, but thought I'd throw that out there in case it's helpful.


I haven't thought about the OS. Obviously with that amount of RAM I have to go 64bit. I may toy around with the idea of server 2008 as the base OS and run everything inside it. My concern would be gaming performance in a VM.

Up in the air really. Plus I know Win7 in on the horizon and I am hoping they keep on with the improvements over Vista.

Funny thing is I am spec'ing the i7 with 12GB of ram since it has to go in, in threes.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:35 am

z-man wrote: My concern would be gaming performance in a VM.
You're thinking about gaming in a VM?
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:54 am

UberGerbil wrote:
z-man wrote: My concern would be gaming performance in a VM.
You're thinking about gaming in a VM?


It was a thought, didn't say I was going to do it.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:02 am

Though RAM cost may be a problem on an i7, you may be able to save money on a deal or a brand you don't commonly use.

I am compelled, though, to post this deal that there's no retailer near enough me to be able to take advantage of unless I ask someone else to buy it for me: Microcenter's i7 920 for $230. They'll charge you sales tax, but I bet you'll still save ~$45 over Newegg after all is said and done.

And DDR3 runs at lower voltage, so maybe it'll be cooler. :D Seriously, though, you'll definitely run VMs faster with 3 channels.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:04 am

I know my case is not the Sugo SG1, but it lists as an ATX mini tower: here goes-

- Cooler Master Elite 360. The case has one fan on the top.
- Sapphire HD4670 512MB (I am dying to change the fan on this thing to a passive cooling solution - anyone with an idea of waht to use?)
- 8GB DDR2-800
- 2 DVD drives
- OCZ 500W PSU (SATA)
- 500GB HDD (SATA)
- SB Audigy
- Phenom II X4-920. i changed the cooler to an Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro64 and the temps dropped a few degrees.
- Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo. None of the standard length ATX or mATX boards would let me get a second HDD in the drive cage under the opical drives.

I know that the Sugo has the ventilation all around it and the little fan in the side for the drives. That should be sufficient. If not, change the CPU cooler, but I don't think it will have to be something pricey or exotic for the system to stay cool. I also have Vista Home premium 64-bit installed using VirtualBox to run 2 OSes (Windows XP & Fedora 10)
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:09 am

i7's 130W TDP seems a little too high. C2Q and the Phenom II's ~95-100W TDP seems to be the maximum I want to have.

Personally I am itching for a low profile HTPC build as well, and even those TDP numbers concern me. :o
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:19 am

Flying Fox wrote:i7's 130W TDP seems a little too high. C2Q and the Phenom II's ~95-100W TDP seems to be the maximum I want to have.

Personally I am itching for a low profile HTPC build as well, and even those TDP numbers concern me. :o

You know how Intel rates their procs. They all have the same 130W rating, which means, obviously, that the slower ones run at much lower power usage.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:24 am

Flying Fox wrote:i7's 130W TDP seems a little too high. C2Q and the Phenom II's ~95-100W TDP seems to be the maximum I want to have.

Personally I am itching for a low profile HTPC build as well, and even those TDP numbers concern me. :o


This is something that concerns me as well.

And honestly while the i7 would net me some additional performance. I don't see how I am going to complain about the q9550. It is just so woefully underpowered! :roll: :D
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:28 pm

If Server 2008 is your host, you'll definitely want to use Hyper-V. It's very easy and performs well.
I don't know of any one doing 3d acceleration for gaming in VM... you'll probably want to play games on your host.

Server 2008 basically can act as Vista, I'm using it as my workstation
http://www.win2008workstation.com/wordpress/
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:26 pm

I've also been thinking about a new SFF build recently. Either I'll go with the SG01 and build a high-powered system, or I'll get a SG05 and do a really minimalist thing with the Zotac board TR reviewed recently. Anyway, I'm interested to see how your system turns out.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:37 pm

Evaders99 wrote:If Server 2008 is your host, you'll definitely want to use Hyper-V. It's very easy and performs well.


Even if I did I would still use VMware Workstation. Considering I manage a 8 node ESX cluster I already have the tools in place. Not to mention vmdk's transfer much easier.

Evaders99 wrote:Server 2008 basically can act as Vista, I'm using it as my workstation
http://www.win2008workstation.com/wordpress/


I know this, the thread isn't about what I am going to run on it, it is about can I run that hardware in a small box like that and not melt it. :D
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:42 pm

Here's a vote for sadness: Intel also sells low power versions of it's Q9000 series, including a Q9550 called the Q9550S. Here's the link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115210&Tpk=q9550s

The thing is, it's $399!! Would it be worth it to grab one of these instead of putting in the i7 and going through the effort to cool it quietly? Also, the 45nm Intel processors generally self-regulate voltage, especially with P45 boards- but couldn't you just grab a Q9550 and under-volt it?
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:54 pm

With the placement of the CPU socket on that board, I think you might be better off with a CPU cooler setup like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835608007 that would hopefully blow out the side venting of that case. I don't think you'll have issues with heat, but be prepared for noise and lots of dust in your heatsinks and fans. I used a 125W processor in my Shuttle SN26P that used to be my main rig, but that had a slightly better cooling setup than the sugo case.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:12 pm

chasscF1 wrote:With the placement of the CPU socket on that board, I think you might be better off with a CPU cooler setup like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835608007 that would hopefully blow out the side venting of that case. I don't think you'll have issues with heat, but be prepared for noise and lots of dust in your heatsinks and fans. I used a 125W processor in my Shuttle SN26P that used to be my main rig, but that had a slightly better cooling setup than the sugo case.


These guys are talking about low-profile and mATX cases, would that Noctua fit? I admit it would be perfect if it did, there is none quieter that also comes as an effective all-in-one package for LGA1366.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:19 pm

Could I convince you to get something a little more integrated?

Replacing the case/PSU/mobo/HSF with a Shuttle barebones (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6856101077) is a wash when it comes to price, but I think you might be a lot happier with the total package once you're done. Everything else (CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD) stays the same, and I believe your heat dissipation concerns go away.

Trade-off: two fewer USB ports on the back, and no PS/2 keyboard port.
Gains: more compact system specifically designed to get rid of Quad-core heat.

I'm a SFF maniac, though, and I've been using Shuttles for years. Love 'em.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:29 am

Airmantharp wrote:
chasscF1 wrote:With the placement of the CPU socket on that board, I think you might be better off with a CPU cooler setup like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835608007 that would hopefully blow out the side venting of that case. I don't think you'll have issues with heat, but be prepared for noise and lots of dust in your heatsinks and fans. I used a 125W processor in my Shuttle SN26P that used to be my main rig, but that had a slightly better cooling setup than the sugo case.


These guys are talking about low-profile and mATX cases, would that Noctua fit? I admit it would be perfect if it did, there is none quieter that also comes as an effective all-in-one package for LGA1366.


In a word: no

Here is why. You'll note that the CPU sits right under the PSU. The design calls for the PSU to remove the heat from the sink. My idea, again, is to place a 100 or 120mm fan under the fins to push more air up. Along with a couple of low profile smaller fans along the size to pull more air into the case.

Airmantharp wrote:but couldn't you just grab a Q9550 and under-volt it?


For the same reason I won't overclock. I don't want to fiddle with the system.

I'd rather mess with other things then constantly making sure my hardware is working.

eitje wrote:Could I convince you to get something a little more integrated?


Probably not. I haven't owned a full or mini ATX case in 7+ years. Three of my last four SFF boxes have all been Shuttles.

I've been a little disappointed in their last offering, (could be the nvidia chipset causing most of that.) Plus when I started looking their only i7 option is missing firewire(they seem to be removing it for some reason). Lastly I was looking to try something small yet still have the ability to use another slot. Most shuttles only offer 2 slots which get covered up by the GPU cooler. Thus why microATX was appealing this time around. Plus I blew out 2 PSUs in it. I am going to look around and see what I can find on the Shuttle with a Quad.

Still if I don't go i7 I am looking at that SP45H7, the one you linked has onboard vid which I don't need.

So with all that here we go:

Shuttle Version:

Shuttle SP45H7 Intel Socket T(LGA775) Intel P45 Black Barebone - Retail
SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5 - Retail X 2
Western Digital RE3 WD2502ABYS-01B7A0 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS30 - OEM

Total: $1009.93

My first Version:

SILVERSTONE Sugo SG01-BF Black Aluminum / Steel MicroATX Desktop SFF Chassis Computer Case - Retail
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply compatible with core i7 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-UD2H LGA 775 Intel G45 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-6400C5 - Retail X 2
Western Digital RE3 WD2502ABYS-01B7A0 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS30 - OEM

Total: $949.91

i7 920 Version:

SILVERSTONE Sugo SG01-BF Black Aluminum / Steel MicroATX Desktop SFF Chassis Computer Case - Retail
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply compatible with core i7 - Retail
SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Western Digital RE3 WD2502ABYS-01B7A0 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS30 - OEM
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TR3X6G1333C9 - Retail X 2
ASUS Rampage II GENE LGA 1366 Intel X58 uATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail

Total: $1156.93

If I swap the SG-01 for a TJ08 case instead on the last one.

Total: $1165.94

Hmmm that is only a $10 difference. Maybe I just go with the i7 but I'd have to give up my SFF. Also note these prices are without a HSF. which might change do to the case.
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Re: Am I crazy? New SFF build

Postposted on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:06 am

I looked into that GPU a little, the same one that JAE has (right?). If you're not going to spend the extra $$ to get a 4870 1GB with the reference cooler, this will probably be your best alternative, but it seems based on reviews that the card still both vents into the case as well as radiates heat into the case, specifically from the exposed heat-pipes. This would be fine in a well ventilated case, the Antec 900, but I wouldn't want one (and definitely not two!) in my well insulated Antec P180, and that makes it very hard to recommend for an SFF/mATX solution focused on silence. More than likely you'll be having to use custom profiles to spin up the fan to control the heat, as the card will probably be recirculating it's own hot air to cool itself, causing it to heat up.

If you do want a reference cooler, you might as well spend the extra $10 for the 4890. Otherwise your best solution would be just to grab a GTX260, as they don't have these cooling or noise issues.
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