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I'm planning on buying a 1080p LCD screen with the usual plethora of inputs and outputs. I will likely have a computer plugged into the screen (DVI + line-out or L/R RCA), a blu-ray, a digital cable box, and possibly a gaming system. In addition, I'm planning on buying a speaker system. My question is... how should I hook up these devices to communicate with the speaker system? Is it possible to just have all the video and audio cables running to the TV, and then just run the audio-out from the TV to the stereo system receiver? Would this result in a degredation of audio quality/channels (esp. for Blu-Ray)? If instead, the better option is to run the audio cables individually to the audio receiver, how does the system match up each correct audio input to the TV video input? Sorry for these noobish questions (never built a proper home audio system). Also, how much does the new audio capabilities of blu-ray throw a monkey wrench into what sounds system I should get (i.e. taking full advantage of blu-ray specs and getting a sound system that costs more). Is spdif pretty much just the highest standard (i.e. if my TV-out has this, would I be safe to run that to the sound-system for optimal audio?)

Something like this would have the inputs and fully support all Blu-ray sound formats:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120122&Tpk=onkyo%20ht-s6100
And I'd recommend doing as much through HDMI as you can. Pretty much everything can use it nowadays.

It really depends on the outputs you have available on the equipment you mentioned. Where can you get HDMI output and where are you restricted to composite?

I think I can probably get HDMI out on everything I'll be using (Computer, Cable Box, TV itself)... I looked at that Onkyo system and was wondering if there are any other cheaper sound systems out there that have HDMI... tried looking but can't find many sound systems with HDMI under $400.

EDIT: Actually, I can't find anything less than that Onkyo system with HDMI. Would what I said before work? (Have all the inputs for audio and video going into my TV and then just use the spdif-out on the TV to send out the audio for everything?... would this retain all the appropriate channels/etc.)

I've got some of what was once the world's finest stereo audio equipment (exotic stuff, some of it several decades old, but still cream of the crop) that I have connected to my computer on occasion; however, for the most part, I prefer a much simpler solution. I bought a set of Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 self-powered "computer" speakers which I have connected to the audio line-out connection of my television. Works flawlessly.

"The problem with that is you're sending an analog stereo signal to your tv, then trying to send a digital signal to your surround sound receiver. You should get sound, but you're losing channels."

Read this somewhere. Is this true? Would I be losing channels (not having stereo remixing) if I sent audio/video cables to my TV and then sent out spdif from the audio-out of my TV to the receiver?

You will have to be very specific in researching the audio pass-through capabilities of your TV in order to answer this question; or you could just try it. But here's the thing: at very best, the TV can output over optical digital as many channels it's given, assuming that they are either pre-encoded bit-streams such as Dolby Digital or DTS, or possibly but very unlikely send un-encoded PCM streams either as a pass-through or from decoding an encoded stream.

And I'm not trying to confuse you, but the basic logic of 'the device has port X therefore it should be able to output anything that port can handle that I can also input from another port,' doesn't always fly, as many times specific ports have specific functions/reasons for existing/particular uses and are limited to those capacities only. For this reason I expect your optical digital output to only output stereo, unless the source is an OTA Dolby Digital signal.

I really wouldn't suggest relying on the TV optical digital out, but I do suggest trying it if you can without cost to yourself.

As for systems, that Onkyo is the cheapest of the Onkyo systems, and one of the cheapest available, that comes with a full complement of functional 7.1 speakers and a decent receiver capable of powering those speakers effectively, or replacement speakers, and at the same time can handle the advanced Blu-ray audio standards of Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS Master Audio; which are the 7.1 audio standards.

The thing is, 7.1 is pretty rare amongst Blu-rays and pretty much non-existent anywhere else and as such you may very well consider a 5.1 system, which most Blu-ray's are, that can also decode those streams. The Onkyo HT-S6100 is simply the cheapest available system that I'm aware of that supports all options available at a reasonable price and with reasonable quality.

rogelio wrote:

"The problem with that is you're sending an analog stereo signal to your tv, then trying to send a digital signal to your surround sound receiver. You should get sound, but you're losing channels."

Read this somewhere. Is this true? Would I be losing channels (not having stereo remixing) if I sent audio/video cables to my TV and then sent out spdif from the audio-out of my TV to the receiver?

I wouldn't expect a TV to take an analog input, except maybe it's own analog OTA tuner, and mix it into a stereo PCM stream and output it over an optical digital interface. It's certainly not impossible, but that's a niche configuration that I doubt they would spend the extra resources to implement, but as always, try it and find out, if you can!

There are so many little details that you need to dig deep in the respective manuals (and may even have to try) to figure out. The linked Onkyo system is about the only option that you can get a real A/V Receiver to help you stay mostly digital, plus some speakers. You simply can't go any cheaper than that without sacrificing something (be it channels, supporting 5.1/7.1 LPCM, new encoding formats used in Bluray, etc.). Save up so you can spend more I'm afraid.

What kind of budget do you have in mind? What components do you have now?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6882120141

This looks to be a cheaper version than this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 20ht-s6100

Though, the cheaper one doesn't have s-video ports. Any other major differences you can discern (to be worth the +$200 value of the latter than the former)?

EDIT:
Oh, and this model also looks interesting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6882120140

It's only $350. Almost same hookups as the $500 above (no s-video ports), but it's a 5.1 and not 7.1 system (and uses clip-type speaker connections versus the rounded screw-on type). What's the deal with 7.1 versus 5.1 with HD television and blu-ray... are there broadcasts and blu-ray movies where the extra 2 speakers will actually be of use? Is it worth it to spring the extra money for the 7.1 versus 5.1?

Sorry for the late reply.

rogelio wrote:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120141

This looks to be a cheaper version than this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 20ht-s6100

Though, the cheaper one doesn't have s-video ports. Any other major differences you can discern (to be worth the +$200 value of the latter than the former)?

EDIT:
Oh, and this model also looks interesting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6882120140

It's only $350. Almost same hookups as the $500 above (no s-video ports), but it's a 5.1 and not 7.1 system (and uses clip-type speaker connections versus the rounded screw-on type).

Go to the products page and you can compare yourself. The S3200 is almost a totally different animal.

From what I can see myself:
- S3200 is 5.1 as you noted, plus power output is less the other two.
- S3200 does not have the "all discrete amp circuitry", meaning it is simply not as good component wise.
- S6100 supports decoding the latest formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, but if you are using a PS3 as the Blu-ray player receiver decoding is not needed.
- S3200 and S5200 has the "GAME surround mode", not terribly useful I think.
- S3200 and S5200 has Audyssey Dynamic Volume, IIRC that's for normalizing volume levels, especially with broadcast HD channels the commercials can be a lot louder than the actual program. So normalizing helps.
- S3200 has one less digital audio in
- S6100 has S-video inputs. No big deal for me. My Pioneer 1018 does not have them either and I am not crying. I use component for my plain DVD player and HDMI for PS3. My VCR does not have S-video and I am not even sure if I want to connect my VCR to the receiver anyway.
- S3200 has only 3 HDMI inputs, the others have 4.
- S6100 has "analog to HDMI upconversion", meaning it can take a 480i/p signal from composite/s-video/component inputs and upscale+convert to the digital HDMI output. This is great for cable management because you will just need 1 cable from the receiver to the TV. Plus if your TV's upscaler is not very good you can let the receiver do the upscaling (up to 1080i for this model I believe, so if you have a 1080p TV set it still needs to do the de-interlacing).
- ** S6100 is a HDMI repeater, meaning it can pass audio over HDMI. The others are just "pass through", meaning you have to run analog/optical/coax audio from your player devices. That automatically excludes the latest digital audio formats I think (DD/DTS 5.1/6.1 is still possible).
- S6100 also has 7.1 multi-channel input (composite), just more options and flexibility.
- S6100 has GUI on-screen display. The lower end model is usually a text-mode thing. My 1018's OSD is being called "Commodore 64 like" for example.
- S6100 seems to have larger speakers, but the S5200 ones are made of wood. Not going to expect miracles out of those, but they should be adequate for blasting out movies and games

rogelio wrote:

What's the deal with 7.1 versus 5.1 with HD television and blu-ray... are there broadcasts and blu-ray movies where the extra 2 speakers will actually be of use? Is it worth it to spring the extra money for the 7.1 versus 5.1?

AFAIK no HD channel broadcast is 7.1. The most they do is 5.1 Dolby Digital. For Blu-ray there are titles that do contain a 6.1 or 7.1 track (but they will also contain a 5.1 track for maximum compatibility). However just matching channel numbers does not mean the end of the story. My research suggested that some titles record the sound in 5.1 anyway, but use software algorithms to make it 7.1, make them "not real". For those titles using the 5.1 track should sound the same if not better (due to the artificial modifications). The receiver+speakers+room setup is also another story. One school of thought like Airman above insists that 5.1 does not have a "true rear" speaker so you can't exactly hear sound coming from straight back. However, you may not have the room to have 7 speakers anyway or the cost of 2 extra speakers is too much (for people who pick more expensive speakers themselves instead of buying a cheap kit). I would say for a not too large room (IMO I am ok with my 5.1 setup in my 10'x15' room), 5.1 is ok. One interesting thing is that if your receiver is capable of 7.1 output but you have 5.1 speakers. The receiver can be configured to use the 2 vacant channels for other purposes, like bi-amping the fronts (can get the bigger tower fronts) or powering zone B (play some stereo music in another room). Most 7.1 receivers should also funnel the 2 extra channels to the surround speakers, but of course you may lose some of the original intent of the recording/mixing engineers (assuming they did not manufacture the extra channels from a 5.1 source).

If you are buying a set (especially those Onkyo's) anyway, I would suggest focusing on the receiver and not the number of speakers. If you are of the discerning type, you will grow tired of the kit speakers fairly quickly and will be clamouring for upgrades. For the receiver you should get one that contains the inputs that you need now and into the future (unless you are upgrading the receiver as well soon, which sort of defeats the purpose of buying a HT kit in the first place), plus with the features that you need like wattage, format support and upconversion.

What TV set have you chosen? What's the budget for all that stuff?

I'll be shopping at Sams Club for the TV (that lifetime return policy in case it dies is quite appealing). I'm looking for a 42-46" 1080p screen (probably 42"), preferably that can do 120Hz - I'm not planning on spending more than $1000 on the HDTV.

As for audio, my goal is to not spend more than half the cost of the TV (i.e. $500), since I'll also be getting a blu-ray player ($200), and possibly a new monitor (that does 1080p so that I can use clone mode and have a 1:1 between the TV and monitor) along with a new videocard that does HDMI (and carries audio over HDMI) which will probably cost another $350 combined.

It'd be nice if Costco/Sam's Club sold decent receivers/home-theater systems (return policy again... I've had receivers die on me before).

I had a question about the 3200 system:

http://www.us.onkyo.com/zoom.cfm?class= ... =HT-S3200#
(see rear view)

So, it has no HDMI audio passthrough... so I'll have to buy additional sets of cables (to/from the device->receiver and receiver->TV)... however, I'm looking at the image and its layout and I'm a little confused. There are 3 HDMI Ins, and a single HDMI out. Two component (and L/R audio) Ins and one set of component (and L/R audio) outs. Three composite In's (w/L/R) and one out. Two optical audio In's. .... If you have three devices plugged into HDMI In... how do you pass-out optical audio (spdif) for 3 devices (there are only 2 spdif ins, so I guess you'd have to use a digital in)? If I have 3 devices plugged into HDMI and a single HDMI out, how do I set which to display? I'm confused on this. Also, is it possible to assign optical/spdif to a non-HDMI video input (ie. component)... or does component have to pair with RCA?

rogelio wrote:

I'm not planning on spending more than $1000 on the HDTV.

As for audio, my goal is to not spend more than half the cost of the TV (i.e. $500)

Keep in mind that this ratio thing only works after you are past a certain threshold. I spent $1500 on the TV and $800 on the receiver+speaker set this past Boxing Week. It's about half but the receiver and speaker set are the minimum that I was satisfied with the features and quality. Going further lower will mean a bit more compromises than I am willing to accept (and may as well go with a HTIB kit). $500 for a 5.1 audio system IMO is a bit too low. You do get what you pay for. It may be inflexibility down the road, or the speakers may not be good enough for your room and/or your ears, etc. Just be careful.

rogelio wrote:

I had a question about the 3200 system:

http://www.us.onkyo.com/zoom.cfm?class= ... =HT-S3200#
(see rear view)

So, it has no HDMI audio passthrough... so I'll have to buy additional sets of cables (to/from the device->receiver and receiver->TV)...

The correct term you are looking for is "HDMI repeater". As I mentioned above both the 5200 and 3200 are "HDMI passthrough" where you have to use separate cables for audio.

rogelio wrote:

however, I'm looking at the image and its layout and I'm a little confused. There are 3 HDMI Ins, and a single HDMI out. Two component (and L/R audio) Ins and one set of component (and L/R audio) outs. Three composite In's (w/L/R) and one out. Two optical audio In's. .... If you have three devices plugged into HDMI In... how do you pass-out optical audio (spdif) for 3 devices (there are only 2 spdif ins, so I guess you'd have to use a digital in)?

S/PDIF optical and the coax are both digital audio. So you have 3 digital audio inputs on that thing actually.

rogelio wrote:

If I have 3 devices plugged into HDMI and a single HDMI out, how do I set which to display?

You mean switching inputs? That's the basic function of the receiver. You can select the input on the front panel or use the remote. Download the manual or hookup diagram and you can see a bit more clearly. One of the HDMI input is labeled "DVD/BD" so this is the suggested input for your Blu-ray player. The remote/front panel links their respective "BD" button with that input.

rogelio wrote:

Also, is it possible to assign optical/spdif to a non-HDMI video input (ie. component)... or does component have to pair with RCA?

You can see more clearly in the hookup diagrams that the inputs are "assignable", meaning you can link a video signal with another audio signal, such as HDMI video in and optical audio in, or component video in and coaxial digital audio.

So, let's say that I have 4 devices: BD and PC on HDMI and X-Box and Wii on component (and the appropriate assigned audio matched up with those). Consequently, I would have a single HDMI and a single component going out from the receiver into the TV. If I'm using the BD and need to switch to my PC, then I would hit the button on the receiver remote; however, if I'm using an HDMI device (BD) and need to switch to a component device (X-Box), then I have to know that I need to switch the input on my TV from the HDMI input to the component input, AND also make sure that I hit the right option on the receiver (i.e. X-Box and not Wii).

Does this sound right? I guess this would be one advantage of the "HDMI repeater", no? (so that I don't have to remember which devices are on what video connection - HDMI/component/composite - and have to switch them on the TV... in addition to on the receiver).

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to chime in, so I didn't read all of the above posts. To put it simply, I will suggest a method that I used for my parents, to help simplify their setup, but keep the quality.

With my parent's TV, they have a Digital audio out connector, via Optical. With this, it was a simple connection to the TV, using HDMI for their Bluray and the regular audio connectors for everything else. The TV acts as a pass-through for the digital signal, but also converts the analog audio to digital, as well. Therefor, only one connector was necessary for the Audio Receiver.

If you get a TV that has this capability and use all HDMI inputs for all equipment, you could use the TV as the switching mechanism for all of the devices, which is what I would generally suggest for most simple setups. Run the single digital line out to your receiver and then, you are set.

As for quality, unless you buy a good receiver (I consider decent, usually in the $600-$1000 range), you wouldn't notice much of a difference. Also, most receivers do not transfer video as well as they claim and sometimes, not well at all, so using them as the video switcher isn't always a good idea.

So, in essence, if you use HDMI for most things (XBox, PS3, Bluray and so on), and you can get a TV with an optical pass through, then you should be well off, even with a cheaper audio system.

By the way, even if the receivers offer HDMI switching, not all of them offer the audio throughput, meaning that, in some cases, you still need to run a separate audio cable (Sony's are notorious for this).

rogelio wrote:

So, let's say that I have 4 devices: BD and PC on HDMI and X-Box and Wii on component (and the appropriate assigned audio matched up with those). Consequently, I would have a single HDMI and a single component going out from the receiver into the TV. If I'm using the BD and need to switch to my PC, then I would hit the button on the receiver remote; however, if I'm using an HDMI device (BD) and need to switch to a component device (X-Box), then I have to know that I need to switch the input on my TV from the HDMI input to the component input, AND also make sure that I hit the right option on the receiver (i.e. X-Box and not Wii).

That sounds about right, and this is precisely why the Logitech Harmony can be such a compelling device. The different paradigm of "activity" you can program all the things that need to be turned on and set up, with one click of a button.

rogelio wrote:

I guess this would be one advantage of the "HDMI repeater", no? (so that I don't have to remember which devices are on what video connection - HDMI/component/composite - and have to switch them on the TV... in addition to on the receiver).

If I have to nitpick there is a small difference. HDMI repeater means that you can also pass audio via the same HDMI cable, so all your HDMI-capable playback devices can be plugged in to the receiver via 1 HDMI cable each, and then another HDMI cable will be connected to the HDMI out of the receiver into the TV. The receiver will process the audio signal (plus driving the speakers/amps) and "repeats" the video signal through HDMI out to the TV. In order to have one and only one HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV though (instead of component+composite video output for the other device), you actually need the upconversion feature. Normally when you get a receiver with HDMI repeater capability you almost always get upconversion. This is different from upscaling where resolution is scaled up. Upconversion is analog input and HDMI out. So for convenience, the question becomes: should I get a cheaper receiver with a Logitech Harmony to help out with all the button pressing, or get a better (read: more expensive) receiver?

krazyredboy wrote:

Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to chime in, so I didn't read all of the above posts. To put it simply, I will suggest a method that I used for my parents, to help simplify their setup, but keep the quality.

With my parent's TV, they have a Digital audio out connector, via Optical. With this, it was a simple connection to the TV, using HDMI for their Bluray and the regular audio connectors for everything else. The TV acts as a pass-through for the digital signal, but also converts the analog audio to digital, as well. Therefor, only one connector was necessary for the Audio Receiver.

If you get a TV that has this capability and use all HDMI inputs for all equipment, you could use the TV as the switching mechanism for all of the devices, which is what I would generally suggest for most simple setups. Run the single digital line out to your receiver and then, you are set.

Not all TV can pass 5.1 audio with its "digital audio out" connector. Plus you can have some issues with the TV lagging with the audio.

krazyredboy wrote:

As for quality, unless you buy a good receiver (I consider decent, usually in the $600-$1000 range), you wouldn't notice much of a difference. Also, most receivers do not transfer video as well as they claim and sometimes, not well at all, so using them as the video switcher isn't always a good idea.

For analog SD video I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. Blowing that stuff up on a HDTV set is not going to be pretty anyway. For the HD stuff, you do need to look for a receiver that either has good upscaling quality (for those 720p/1080i input signals), or a receiver that does not touch the video signal. I bought my Pioneer 1018 receiver the past Boxing Week for $400 Canadian, but regular price it is up in your range.

krazyredboy wrote:

So, in essence, if you use HDMI for most things (XBox, PS3, Bluray and so on), and you can get a TV with an optical pass through, then you should be well off, even with a cheaper audio system.

See the post I link. It may or may not work, especially if you have multichannel audio. And if you think you have enough equipment to discern the new lossless formats from Blu-ray, you will be missing out.

krazyredboy wrote:

By the way, even if the receivers offer HDMI switching, not all of them offer the audio throughput, meaning that, in some cases, you still need to run a separate audio cable (Sony's are notorious for this).

Already covered that above with the passthrough vs repeater discussion.

I read the past thread about the audio lagging. Getting a cheaper sound system (i.e. the Onkyo S3200) and feeding all into the TV and then passing optical audio out from the TV into the receiver would make the setup easier by never having to change anything on the receiver (assuming that I wouldn't be needing/using the new lossless and 7.1 blu-ray features)... but my worry is the lagging. How prevalent/common is this, and is there any way to know beforehand which TV's can successfully pass out 5.1 digital audio (to the receiver). I agree, ideally... it would be better to deal with everything going into the receiver... but I'm wondering if I'll notice much a difference with let's say the Onkyo S3200 (assuming the HDTV I get can do the audio pass-through job... which may be a big assumption).

rogelio wrote:

I read the past thread about the audio lagging. Getting a cheaper sound system (i.e. the Onkyo S3200) and feeding all into the TV and then passing optical audio out from the TV into the receiver would make the setup easier by never having to change anything on the receiver (assuming that I wouldn't be needing/using the new lossless and 7.1 blu-ray features)...

While there is a certain geek satisfaction when you can do something for the cheap without compromising too much, I would have to say that this time, you get what you pay for. The job of a receiver is like a central hub to managed your devices, why don't you want to press and keys on it (or the remote)? If you don't want the hassle of changing inputs on both the TV and receiver, pay up for the convenience. Either get a better receiver or get one of those Logitech Harmony remotes.

rogelio wrote:

but my worry is the lagging. How prevalent/common is this, and is there any way to know beforehand which TV's can successfully pass out 5.1 digital audio (to the receiver). I agree, ideally... it would be better to deal with everything going into the receiver...

You have to go to sites like AVSforum and/or go to read the manuals of the TV sets to find out more information. And even then it may not be clear. My Panasonic TH46PZ80U manual was not that clear, but from what I gathered it is either stereo PCM or DD5.1 from broadcast DTV. It makes little sense for it to have a DD encoder in there to route your signals, not a TV's job really. Result? Other multichannel sources may get chopped off (or completely not forwarded) to stereo. Read the audio lagging thread and you can see the OP there seemed to get much better sound routing it through the receiver too.

rogelio wrote:

but I'm wondering if I'll notice much a difference with let's say the Onkyo S3200 (assuming the HDTV I get can do the audio pass-through job... which may be a big assumption).

S3200 sounds too low end so you may hear a difference. A combination of lower power, cheaper circuits, and crappier speakers should be in effect. As I said IMO you should probably up your budget a little bit to be a better place in terms of quality and convenience.

That said, the S3200 should theoretically work for your hypothetical setup:

rogelio wrote:

So, let's say that I have 4 devices: BD and PC on HDMI and X-Box and Wii on component

The Wii can't do digital audio AFAIK, so you will be using component video and one of the composite audio input. The XBox using component should be fine on the other component video input while the BD and PC is perfect for the HDMI. As for audio, it should not be hard to get either a BD player or PC with coaxial digital audio output while the other 2 devices take up the optical audio connectors. Using existing BD and PC that only does optical output? Apparently there are converters. Price is not that bad but wait, another giant power brick and extra little power sipping gadget? Well, didn't I have been telling you not to go so cheap? Remember though, with optical/coax digital audio the maximum you can do is either stereo PCM or DD/DTS 5.1. Blu-ray by default should contain a DD/DTS 5.1 track so you should be ok, but whether you can hear the difference between that and the lossless TrueHD/MA depends on a lot of variables that I cannot answer. The geek pride should certainly hurt a bit though.

Haha.

Though, I forgot that I'll also be watching OTA TV... so I assume that would add another set of cables (HDMI/optical out going from the TV into the receiver in addition to the BD/PC).

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/naviga ... pCatg=5728
http://www.panasonic.com/apps/match-mak ... -BT200.pdf

This seems like it'll sufficiently do what I need for much less than other options (buying a BD system + receiver/speakers). It has 2 optical in and 1 analog in - which will work for running 1 spdif from my TV and one from my computer (though, i'd be short an additional digital audio-in if I were to get a gaming system).

Impressions? This system also has that viera-Link (has an ethernet port on the player) and an iPod dock... but I"m wondering about the audio quality and if I will run into problems with having the audio out of sync with the TV (and computer) connected via spdif.

Personally, I would stay away from any of the all-in-one systems. Unless it uses a True Amplifier/Receiver style setup. The quality is never what you want (even if they are cheap) and most of those little digital amps can't handle much on the quality-to-noise front. If I had to recommend one, I would go with one of the Onkyo All-in-one systems, as they typically come with a normal Amplifier/Receiver and fairly decent speakers (to start with) and won't cost you an arm and a leg.

why don't you just buy a blu-ray drive for your htpc? i have seen some on sale recently for under $100...frys.com i think had one earlier. that way it eliminates an entire component and will simplify your whole setup a little bit...