Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, Dposcorp, SpotTheCat
SpotTheCat wrote:EVERY player does upscaling. If you can get a DVD to play fullscreen on an HDTV you are upscaling the DVD to fit the display.
liquidsquid wrote:DVD movies are stored at 480i/60. Through 3:2 pulldown, they deinterlace to a 480p/24 image, IIRC. Even the cheapest player can properly deinterlace DVD movies if they are flagged correctly, with zero loss in quality. Then the upscaler takes over. So, with DVD movies, it's always a progressive to progressive upconversion.Well, there are varying degrees of up-scaling quality. Progressive to progressive up-scaling is cake for most systems. The up-scaling I am mostly concerned with is when you go from interleaved to progressive where different processing techniques have a large impact on quality. There are apparently quite a few different ways to accomplish this, few do it well. You need a lot of processing to not only interpolate in the X/Y direction, but also in the time direction.
liquidsquid wrote:With digital noise reduction, which results in an overall softening of the image/loss of high frequency detail, waxy facial features, and smearing of fast motion.Then the processing to eliminate or reduce compression artifacts is a biggie as well.
liquidsquid wrote:No video processor in the world can add real detail or depth back into a lossy compressed video. At some point you are just shining a turd. A turd with 6 times less resolution, a ton more compression, and a bit less color depth than a true HD source.Good chip-sets can take a lousy over-compressed recording and make it pretty darned impressive again.
derFunkenstein wrote:What do you mean by 'cleanup'? Strictly speaking, upscaling only implies a conversion from lower resolution to a higher resolution.Upscaling implies some sort of image clean-up on the part of the DVD player.
Vrock wrote:liquidsquid wrote:No video processor in the world can add real detail or depth back into a lossy compressed video. At some point you are just shining a turd. A turd with 6 times less resolution, a ton more compression, and a bit less color depth than a true HD source.Good chip-sets can take a lousy over-compressed recording and make it pretty darned impressive again.
Vrock wrote:derFunkenstein wrote:What do you mean by 'cleanup'? Strictly speaking, upscaling only implies a conversion from lower resolution to a higher resolution.Upscaling implies some sort of image clean-up on the part of the DVD player.
liquidsquid wrote:I'm opposed to DNR of any kind, because all the kinds I've ever seen take picture information away along with the noise. If you're saying there's something new out there that doesn't do that, well, I'd love to see it.Vrock wrote:liquidsquid wrote:No video processor in the world can add real detail or depth back into a lossy compressed video. At some point you are just shining a turd. A turd with 6 times less resolution, a ton more compression, and a bit less color depth than a true HD source.Good chip-sets can take a lousy over-compressed recording and make it pretty darned impressive again.
But shiny smooth turds, while they still smell, ARE better to look at than a sharp, square one (ouch!). Think: Old family movies, bad rips of TV shows, You-Tube videos, etc. Some of the processing engines truly are amazing in what they can pull out of a turd. While you cannot add more detail to a single frame, you can intelligently "stack" frames to extract a bit more data. I have seen some demos from chip vendors that simply knock your socks off when you do a side-by-side, though I cannot find a product that actually uses one of these chip-sets (I am under NDA, sorry).
derFunkenstein wrote:I thought you were talking about something else video-processor wise, okay.It has to do something with the neighboring pixels in the interim, though. By "cleanup" I mean that it has to figure out what color each pixel needs to be.
derFunkenstein wrote:Yeah that's true too.And still, not all DVD players upscale, so the post I replied to was still not useful.
derFunkenstein wrote:SpotTheCat wrote:EVERY player does upscaling. If you can get a DVD to play fullscreen on an HDTV you are upscaling the DVD to fit the display.
This is not a useful post. Upscaling implies some sort of image clean-up on the part of the DVD player. That doesn't happen if your progressive-scan DVD player puts out a 480p signal to the TV and the TV just blows up the picture to fit the screen. Or worse yet, you've got an older/non-progressive DVD player that outputs over S-video or something, and now you've got a 480i image that has to be stretched to fit.
Vrock wrote:DVD movies are stored at 480i/60. Through 3:2 pulldown, they deinterlace to a 480p/24 image, IIRC.
Taddeusz wrote:My understanding was that DVD movies are always stored at 480i/60. Is this not the case? I'd be interested in reading anything you can tell me about it.Vrock wrote:DVD movies are stored at 480i/60. Through 3:2 pulldown, they deinterlace to a 480p/24 image, IIRC.
While slightly off topic this is not true most of the time. DVD video is produced using one of two methods. The video can either hard or soft telecined. Hard telecined video is compressed interlaced and the interlaced fields are flagged progressive or interlaced for better reverse telecine. Although some videos are badly flagged or completely lack flagging.
Vrock wrote:My understanding was that DVD movies are always stored at 480i/60. Is this not the case? I'd be interested in reading anything you can tell me about it.