Does USB really provide the necessary bandwidth for this? Can they guarantee no frame-dropping for _all_ valid bitrates off cable?

But seriously, this looks like a truly stillborn product.

A warning! Just purchased a DELL XPS 420 computer with the ATI TV Wonder digital Cable Tuner. Was told by Dell sells person that I would be able to hook up my cable to the tuner and watch TV on my computer. Come to find out, still need to get the cable card inserted into the Cable Tuner box. Well, bit the bullet and had a COX technician come out to install the cable card and was told that COX has been having a lot of trouble with the Cable Tuner cards so they are no longer providing the cards; maybe in the future.

I was in the process of buying a new Gateway FX530XV in late February when I heard about the upcoming demise of Analog TV Broadcasting. I heard about the ATI tuner under discussion here and began to fairly hound Gateway to make the thing available. but they said "Oh no, we can't do that because we haven't tested it yet and don't know if would work in our system. I was getting Vista Ultimate and tole them that it had been developed in conjunction with Microsoft specifically for Vista Home Premium and Vista Ultimate. This was just a bit before the release of the Nvidia 8000 series video card, but I had specified a Nvidia GeForce 9750GT with its 512 mb of ram. Everything about the computer is HDCP rated including the 24" Gateway monitor and it has a DVI connection to the video card. Actually, I'm more concerned with simply being able to connect the cable straight to the tuner in the computer than being able to receive HD video. The idea of running a digital cable into a converter box before the tuner on the computer just seems a giant step backward. Its bad enough that I'll have to get some other and probably more expensive cable Internet modem, but so far I haven't heard of any direct connect Internet connections in any computers just yet. Clearly with both Gateway and ATI the concept of the customer always being right has come to be that they simply don't give a rat's hindquarters about their customers. You'd think that Gateway might have seen that customer support is somewhat important seeing that it just had to sell itself to Asus to maintain even a partial existence. I know that after the experience I've had over this one simple thing I'll not recommend them to anyone who I care about.

I believe it was right in the beginning of March I heard that from that time forth it would be illegal to sell any equipment for TV reception that was not digital compatible, but this apparently made no difference to Gateway; they were quite willing to sell me a device that would clearly be legislated into obsolescence within the next year and a half. In retrospect, had I known that by early summer Dell. HP, Sony and a few others would be carrying this technology I would have gone with one of them even though the price from any of them for a comparable system would have been higher. All in all the only positive thing that came about in these times was changing from Bellsouth, who after three years of asking them to provide a faster DSL connection refused saying that I was too far out of the service area to get more than a 3mbps connection, even though I live with in a mile and half of Emory University, the CDC and the Atlanta VA. Switching to Comcast got me their standard 6.0mbps connection and online movies from Netflix are much clearer. Had I not been so thoroughly frustrated with the Tuner affair I probably wouldn't have been upset enough to make the change.

Vista validates the driver, the driver validates the hardware, and thus there's a secure path from end-to-end (secure from the copyright holder's pov, of course) so the PC can decompress the content and play it (encrypting it again to transfer it to the monitor). But the whole DVD experience suggests it'll only be a matter of time before cracks are circulating. It will be a little trickier this time around, since more pieces need to be hacked to make the chain work, but I have no doubt it will be done. Of course the HTPC has never taken off with the masses, and it likely never will. What we'll see instead are the closed appliance devices (game consoles, TiVo, cable-boxes) acquire more of the features of general-purpose computers, but without the flexibility (and also, if they're done well, without the complexity or unreliability). None of which will push aside PCs for enthusiasts (anymore than the existence of game consoles has eliminated PC gaming). In fact, if won't even matter for a lot of HD content: not everything is or will be secured. In addition to OTA HD content, the advent of HiDef consumer video cameras means there's going to be a crapload of unsecured HD video on sites like YouTube. And the same pirates who today produce packaged and pressed DVDs and CDs will be churning out the HD goods as well.

Is it just me, or is anything HD a big mess? Where to begin?

First of all, we all know that we're going to end up at 1080p pretty f'in quick, but when you go shopping for HD sets almost everything is 480 or 720. Anything that will actually do 1080p costs a fortune. Buying a HDTV right now is a sucker's move to start with, but this is a well kept secret. 720p doesn't look too bad, so I might be able to look the other way on this.....

... but then we get to DRM. Oh my. At the very least, I get to pay an extra $5 per month for a DRM box, excuse me, set-top box for each of my HDTVs. At least it includes a PVR, because the DRM gods have decreed that any recording device, especially PCs, will be rendered useless.

Ironically, the best way to get HD content is clearly piracy. I can download practically anything I want to watch DRM free and it costs less than HD cable. Even if I get sued, the cost of a settlement is equal to about 3 years of HD cable service. Starts to look pretty attractive, doesn't it? You bet it does!!!!!

I do think Apple is wise to the situation and they're going to attempt an end run around the cable companies with iTV. Yes, it will still be proprietary and DRM laced, but it's going to offer less restrictions than HD cable, that much I can assure you. Apple is very clever when it comes to striking the balance between freedom and servitude (see iTunes) so expect iTV to be a hit. Devices like this tuner only prove how far from reality the competition has drifted.

Further on down the line, I think we'll see "free" content shot on HD camcorders by independent sources, but that's still a few years down the road after the HD download infrastructure is firmly in place.

Wow. A TV Tuner that makes sure you can't record from it. Well, that just about killed any reason for me to buy one.

Sorry ATI/AMD, I can watch TV on a TV. The only reason I want a TV Tuner is to record for later watchage.

Will this work with my Pansat Satellite receiver? ;P

You guys are missing the point. No one complains that cable is sold on a subscription basis - or that you need a set top box for premium service.

This device simply replaces the set top box. The cable guys have to install it... is this rocket science?

I for one am getting one - if it works with Direct TV satelite.

Plus

I don't think this will be that bad of a an idea. Look at what the cost of hd pvr box cost from a cable company so you have to spend it on a hd digital tuner instead. I personally would love to have the same funtions through my mce pc. But what I dont think is a good idea is that the home computer builder won't be able to use it "at least right away". And what makes it worse is the oem pc builder will charge a premium for these so called hd digital cable ready computers. while all they will have is vista premium and a entry level hdcp capable video card.

This reminds me why I don't spend my money or time watching TV.

Good discussion folks. Let's invite more participants to weigh in...

Please Digg, if you will:

http://digg.com/hardware/ATI_s_TV_Wonder_lets_Vista_PCs_tune_digita...

Ok then... who buys this? It's like a mouse buying a maze for his cheese :P

Wow, the restrictions are unbelievable making this product dead in the water already. The fact that even the internal version only has a USB connector, means they are really serious with the DRM protection on this one.. I trully hope that a universal hack will come out allowing all channels decryption with no subscription. That would teach the cable companies that it's really important to support Linux as well ;) I kid i kid

But seriously, i hope this thing gets cracked asap to teach those gready bastards a lesson.

Adi

FINALLY these cards are getting released! I am looking to build my own PVR when Vista lands. My current home setup is with Digital Cable and I want to build a PVR, that will tune all the premium content I pay for -- including HDTV channels.

What are the current solutions on the market? Nothing, right? At best, I have some tuner card on a PC, connected to my TV and using an ir remote to change channels on a the tuner while the TV hosts the display. If I want to schedule some recording, I have some IR dongle to change channels at the appropriate time.

With this kind of card, I put a PC in place of my digital cable box. It's not a PVR and I can add the Bluray/HD-DVD player, etc -- a one stop shop.

Well, I just looked back at the latest topics and 9 of 10 seems to be connected DRM.

I love to buy DVD's and I have quite a collection at home by now. Yea, they pissed me of with the copy protection scheme, but well, it wasn't awful. At least if the DVD got scratched really bad, I could find a way to copy it to PC to watch without jerks and back it up if I wanted.

Now, I'm looking at the future, and what do I see? I see that I need expensive video card, very expensive monitor, new XXX-ROM drive and Vista to keep spying on me.

Guess what, if I see a product like latest 'Install shield', which is constantly connecting to web, installing bloatwares and so on, it's a death sentence for it. I'M NOT INSTALLING JUNK ON MY PC. AND I AM NOT VOTING WITH MY WALLET FOR COMPANIES WHO WANTS TO MAKE ME A BUTTMONKEY.

And you know what suddenly came to my mind after reading this article? If this trend will continue this way after like a month from Vista launch, I will probably look for a way to fund security organizations without braking my local law.

Come to think of it, I wonder if allofmp3 is legal source of purchase in our country... I got to check the laws.

may be a little off topic, but what ever happened to tha TV tuner card ATi has (had ? ) out? Did they stop making it or something, cause i used to be able to find it on the egg, and i can't find it anymore. Cause i think that is a much more preferable solution to this piece of junk.

I'm not sure how this story is relevant to most of the readership here. Very few TR readers buy OEM machines for personal use... this product is directed at the average Dell buyer as an option when purchasing the PC. I'm sure Dell will be able to sell quite a few of these, and Joe Sixpack isn't going to care about the DRM. It doesn't matter what us geeky folk think about it... it's not readily available to us anyways. *shrug*

At first I quickly scanned the article and it just looks like a series of 3 and 4-letter acronyms. Thanks DRM!

Wow...

I wonder if this is heading towards the "mystery box" you will eventually have to purchase in order to use the internet or any software. It will require monthly fees, is un-upgradeable unless you send for a special certified technician which will just exchange it for a new "mystery box", and will have special outputs for "mystery box" only peripherals.

I don't know about anyone else, but this sort of BS makes me want to stick with what I have no matter what new frills are offered. The only people that are going to buy into this stuff are the poor bastards that just want a "mystery box" to read their emails.

Not actually owning things you buy really pisses me off. Big companies are getting to the point where they're saying give us money and we may or may not let you use our product depending upon how much money you give us and how d@#k you will suck for it.

I seriously hope when they start asking us to bend over they offer free KY samples before the monthly subscription.

How ridiculous.

I'll stick to torrents.

Intarweb > silly DRM solutions

Same goes for Vista. All these hacks to pull the rights away from consumers just to watch commercials in high def.

No thanks.

I can see an epic battle up ahead. Pretty soon only those who have not sinned will be able to watch HD.

This is why Cable will eventually die

I foresee the product failing, which will allow the cable companies to claim that there was never really a demand for it in the first place. This will allow them to continue to kill any product that decodes digital cable TV without onerous DRM.

Note to pirates:

Please continue at full steam. Give 110% effort. Pirate everything you can. I don't care enough to go download your wares, but I sure hope that you bring the high-definition content "industry" crying to its knees. I will hope for and toast to your success.

another vote for PATHETIC.
.. sadly, they will get suckers buying it without knowing the details.
I'm sure they wont advertise the infections on the box.

"NOTE: This product does not allow viewing of television without supervision. After viewing a program with this product, you may be asked some personal questions about how you enjoyed the program as well as shown some short advertising material based on your answers. The questions must be answered and advertising viewed or your computer will explode and the police will be notified.
If you would like to record a program with this product you will be asked to bend over and grab your ankles. A remote tracking device will be inserted into a discrete location. This object may feel cold upon insertion."

Geez...thats just retarted...unfortunately there are plenty of retarded people with money to make it fly...damn...can't live with em, can't live without...but still...this is just...wow...they actually send someone to your house to install it...I do believe this constitutes hold on by their balls.

wow... just wow...

This is truly pathetic.

My life is at least twice as good now as it was in 2004.

In 2004 my beautiful 28" widescreen TV blew up, I have not yet replaced it.

I just tried to copy this post and send it to a friend. Thankfully my OCUR complaint PC running Microsoft Vista Ultimate told me that this would be a violation of copy right law and that it was sending a message to the copyright holder informing them of my misbehavior. I'm just thankful they caught me before I committed such a horrible crime.