Does anybody else make a descent raid MB that is easier to overclock? Sounds like cooling is kinda tough with this one.

Originally Posted by dissonance
Why can I picture Nancy Regan saying \'just say no to linux\'

The poor quality stuff just screws you up. When you dope out on it, you wake up naked on 152'nd street with a 40 ounce in one hand and a puppy in the other.

The good stuff just makes you screws up your head, and makes you makes you like things like Macs and free OS's.

AngryMonkey, it's funny you feel that way about Forge. I was thinking he got some really, really poor quality CRACK.

Forge,

You gotta tell me where you're getting your china white.....cause it is some real real fine smack.

Were you dropped on your head often as a child?

AG#20 - NO, they did NOT crash Damage's box. They installed the ATI gart. This is a LONG standing issue with ATI, and it's one of those things that just bites you in the ass the first time. As I'm sure Damage would tell you, he now knows to run the custom install and deselect the GART install. I also unselect ATI's Cinemaster DVD player, as WinDVD 2.3 works better for me.

As far as Win2k drivers being slow, you've only proven your NV-centric viewpiont. In case you haven't bothered to pull your head out of NV's ass, you might look around and realize that EVERYONE except NV has slower 3D in Win2k!! No one else is willing to take it in the out door like NV to get M$'s Win2k secrets! ONLY NV has Win9X-like speed in Win2k, and NV only got it AFTER they signed on for X-Box!!!! This is a blatant attempt by M$ to design tomorrow's machine! M$ got a sweet deal from NV for X-Box, so they help NV get the very best DX8 and Win2k support possible! Intel bends over and forks over a CPU deal for X-Box, so M$ quietly reports Intel related Windows bugs and gives out broken Via/AMD patches that cripple machines using them!

As the vitriol above might have clued you, I don't use Windows often. I keep around a Win98SE install since it has the best bugs/compatibility rating of any current M$ os. I run linux when I do work, I run Win98SE to do games (and TV stuff, but that's almost games). ATI's Radeon is arguably the very best graphics card to have for linux ATM, as Nvidia's linux drivers have notable issues with no sign of updates any time soon.

I'll post more later, gotta run (at work).

Hey m8!! Lightspeed2000.com hacked around ATI's drivers and made them better. If you've got an early Rage chip or Fury it works wonders.

So let me get this straight, the radeon win2k drivers are slow as hell and crashed Damage's box, BUT they don't suck? I'm soooooooooooooooooo confused.

I say we blame Canada for all bad video card drivers!!!!

Well, kinda. I'm still pissed about losing a weekend to a Win2K reinstall. Had that never happened, I'd have probably actually found time to finish my Radeon review. :)

Thank you, Scott. Edjumacate these NV boyos with me, eh?

I've run a Radeon in Win2K, and it was OK. Except for that time installing new drivers for it rendered my system completely unbootable.

But other than that, all I've seen is relatively slow performance in Win2K versus Win98. NVIDIA wins there, but that's about it. (I did all the testing for a Radeon review, and it's all ready to go, but now DX8 is out plus new drivers, so the whole thing has to be re-done. Ugh.)

Jeezus, guys! I'm telling you I *own* the graphics card in question and have *NO* problems WHATSOEVER! Don't you give me enough credit to realize if the drivers are shite??? I'm saying: I've owned a Rage 128 card, and yes, drivers were always a very sore point, but you could almost always find one that ran right. I'm also saying that ATI's Radeon drivers are a world apart from the R128 ones, and they have quality out the ass!!! If you haven't owned/run a Radeon, *HOW IN HELL WOULD YOU KNOW THE DRIVERS SUCK???????* This is a very, very sad case where Nvidia has deployed some very persuasive and high quality FUD! Radeon's drivers DO NOT SUCK. If you've actually bought a Radeon and run it for more than a week, I'd love to discuss the subject. If all you have is a GF2 and Nvidia's say so on their COMPETITOR'S drivers, then go home.

/me hopes nvidia codes some worthy drivers for the radeon

#12, solidly maintained drivers are now #1 on my checklist for any computer parts. Stability and performance are tied at #2, with price coming in #3.

I don't care if ATI makes God in a video card. If they can't make drivers that work, then I'm not buying.

Quit dreaming. The geforce in a notebook won't exactly set the world on fire. It will only 1/2 the memory bandwidth of a geforce2 mx and most laptop makers are saying that will only offer 8mb of ram with it. Given how memory bandwidth limited the regular geforce2 mx is, I would bet that the laptop version will be at TNT2 speed or slightly slower. I will play quake 3, but it still won't look pretty.

I think the best deal in video cards right now is the good old geforce DDR origional. In most games it will easily push 60 fps and the price has finally dropped to fairly reasonable levels thanks to the geforce2. The real key is that the drivers are fast, stable, and mature. Even the linux drivers have made nice progress (however freebsd support is still sketchy).

Originally Posted by dissonance
I\'d like to pick up a Radeon myself, great DVD playback and outstanding image quality (with the exception of FSAA)... but I can\'t bring myself to run 9x/ME and ATI\'s 2K/NT drivers are notoriously poor. Looks like it will be a GTS for me, at least NVidia has been consistent in its driver updating and optimizing, something that I would have though other vid card companies would have picked up on by now.

I'm just dreaming how cool it would be to have a geforce capable chipset in a notebook one of these days.

Agree #9-

ATI's drivers SUCK period. A big reason i never bought one even though the raedon got semi-favorable reviews.

Forge,
You're killing me here champ.

First, ATI's drivers SUCK ASS for win2k. You have no one to blame for this but ATI. You can accuse MS of being in bed with Nvidia, but I would be too if I had the chance. Nvidia is the hottest girl on the block right now in case you havn't noticed.

If you wanted video in, you should have gone for one of the Asus Geforce cards that have video in, not the ATI all-in-the-pooper. the Asus cards work like a champ, even under win2k. After all, video editing IS fun!

I would just like to note for the record that MS's Via patch has caused nothing but trouble for me. It totally crippled 3D performance in all respects, bringing Win2k D3D and OpenGL down below the beta linux drivers DRI has out. That's just plain pathetic. Granted, lots of folks seem happy with this patch, but I'm far happier without it. I wonder, also... The great majority of people talking about the Win2K->Via 3D patch seem to be running Nvidia accelerators... I'm running a Radeon. I think I'll throw my GF2 in and see what comes of it. Wouldn't MS just love to be finally proven to be the Intel/Nvidia/NT centric bastiches they are?

AMD Athlon 1Ghz @ 1.333Ghz
Abit KT7-Raid Pro v.3 (KT133A chipset)
512Mb PC133 CAS2 Mushkin
5x45Gb IBM 75GXP (4 in RAID5, 1 on ATA/66 controller)
3ware Escalade 6800 RAID
ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder

Win2k Pro Pre-SP2 beta
SuSE 7, modified
Win98SE

Originally Posted by pehowland
Thanks for addressing #2! Paul.

#4:

Thanks for your input on this one. Truth be told, we had every intnetion of putting the proper links into the article, but while we were editing it last night, Apu's Hardware was down, so we couldn't find the right URL.

We'll add the Apu's links and others ASAP.

Thanks,
Scott

Originally Posted by ronald
[Supplement: links \'n stuff]

Abit KT7-RAID product information: http://www.abit.com.tw/english/product/motherboards/kt7-raid.htm

VIA 4-in-1 driver 4.25a (individually or as one package):
http://www.viatech.com/drivers/
http://www.viatech.com/drivers/4in1425(1)a.zip
...but I think Dissonance tested with the 4.24a drivers.

VIA 4-in-1 driver 4.24a (one package):
http://www.viatech.com/drivers/4in1424a.zip

Apu\'s Hardware (for Abit KT7 / KT7-RAID FAQ and custom-made BIOS):
http://www.apushardware.com/
This is the correct URL but they seem to be down at the moment. Server issues, I guess. Try it again later in the day.

The official Abit KT7-RAID UL BIOS can be found here:
http://www.abit.com.tw/english/download/bios%20update/bios-kt7-raid...

Microsoft KB article Q261606 - video hangs when running 3D graphics programs (in Windows 2000 with VIA AGP chipsets):
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q261/6/06.ASP?LN=E...

What really twists me about this articles is:

NO links to the things talked about, i.e. APU Bios. Where is the link to that site? Or Abit M/B? Or how about a link to VIA for the 4 in one drivers?

I dunno maybe I just am spoiled by other sites providing links to the people who supply the equipment, the people who supply the software, and sites that have similar reviews.

I mean really, what bios made by a different site?

Where is this site?

I tried apu.com, apuhardware.com, apushardware.com, and came up negative on sites.

this sounds a little harsh, actually I just wanted to provide some constructive pointers.

I have owned this board for several months and can honestly say it has met and exceeded my every expectation. The softmenu 3 makes great overclocks hassle free, the 3 phase power helps keep the power steady and chip cool, and the onboard RAID works great under win9x/win2k/linux (2.4 kernel), and Be

also thank god for the ISA...before i had cable i was using an isa 56k for ease in other oses (pci modems under linux are a pain in the a##)

The only downside....I'll need a new mobo when DDR comes out :)

Nice review!

However, one correction. You state that Apu's Hardware have a modified BIOS that enables ACPI to be disabled, and that this was created for them by ABIT. This is not true.

I am the author of the modified BIOS, and created it as an example of how the modbin6 tool could be used to modify the BIOS options. ABIT were not involved in any way.

It is important this statement is corrected. The reason ABIT have not enabled this option themselves is that they wish to obtain Microsoft WHQL accreditation for the KT7, and Microsoft will not accredit boards that allow ACPI to be disabled. If your article starts rumours that ABIT are leaking BIOSs with this functionality, it will presumably destroy whatever their plans are with Microsoft.

I would be grateful if you could amend the text accordingly.

Thanks,

Paul

paul@apushardware.com

Originally Posted by ronald
Well done.