Well MS with XP finally is hearding us to the pen(Microsoft's home).
MS must have watched the dependency drugs have on peaople.
It slowly watched us with 95 hten 97 then 98 the 2k and now whamm xp. Yes it stands for experience (MS that is) of how dumb we have been.
Once clause in the terms of agreement is that one cannot reverse engineer the programme. Who has the time.
One thing however that I am against is that MS subsequent to installation sneaks in and writes on my hard disk information without my knowledge.
What next ?

To be honest, I have checked this issue with a thin client.
This ClienthwID will only appear when using RDP (5.0), do you guys know that Windows XP has Terminal Services installed and that this means that you can connect this machine from every corner of your network using RDP. Internet Explorer 6.0 has the RDP snapin preinstalled so you can use your browser to connect any (XP) machine in your network, seeing the desktop in your browser. So this explains why this key is in the registry with xp, w2k or ie6. This key is according to me an extra address to distinguis itself on a software level (CAL):
- TCP/ IP = network
- MAC address = hardware
- ClienthwID = software (when license server died)

In a network M$ uses a Terminal Server (TS) that provide Client Access Licenses (CAL), it could be possible that this key will reactivate the CAL on a new license server when the old one has died. This way a company doesn't have to buy new CAL's, I can't prove this but this is what I think what this is for.
Is there anyone who can react on this or disprove this statement?

Kind regards, JohnnyG

Right on, Twofer (#58).
How long B-4 activation=registration? & M$ requires either SS#, CC#, or both? Nrgh...
Incidentally, I support M$ products for a living, and was certified by them to do so. I still recommend M$ solutions to my clients, if it will suit their needs. OTOH, if it doesn't, I tell them so. I am not looking forward to purchasing the WinXP licenses for my clients (who will opt to be penny-wise/pound-foolish, & purchase only 1 CD to go with their 20 licenses), then having to make 19 frickin' phone calls when the ghost installtions roll across the network I've just set up. [First install-no hitch, the other 19....OOPS! already installed!]

When it comes to M$, I try to be positive when neccessary, and negative as required; I praise their successes, & curse their stupidity. This whole activation bull$h17 has me cursing up a storm right now...

Just wondering, don't most software (and hardware for that matter) companies get their profits from selling to OEM's? or System builders like IBM and Dell?

Activation does not equal Registration.

*sigh* I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this, but:

Yeah, it apparently doesn't -- right now. But this scheme of Microsoft's gives them the power to decide if and when you can run your computer -- not you! There's nothing to stop Microsoft from changing their mind, and deciding you have to register to run the OS... or any other damned notion they come up with. Once you hand that control to them, do you think you will ever get it back?

I'm a businessman; there is no way in hell that I am going to let Microsoft or anybody else make the decision about whether or not I can go about my business on my own computers. I am also a free man, and the same statement applies. THAT is the issue -- very simple!

Originally Posted by ViPeR-7
Imanaz :

legally you should already be buying 3 copies, but nobody used to care if you did.

But microsoft is now deciding to enforce it.

Originally Posted by Imanaz
I am planning on buying office xp, and planning on putting it on my 2 computers at home and my laptop. Does this activation scheme mean I will have to buy 3 licenses of Office XP ... or can I still just buy 1 copy of Office XP and put it on all 3 computers?

Activation does not equal Registration..

Activation is manditory, but you have the choice of whether to register with MS and provide personal info...

I only entered my country for activation, which is manditory..

EP

Bill Gates is treading dangerous Constitutional waters.

Not really. The Constitution only controls what the government may or may not do.

Originally Posted by ViPeR-7
2 things..

arent the two points conficting slightly above?

\"It is only when a PID is trying to be cleared on several hundred/thousand configurations that Microsoft would even care\"

- We are targeting the mass warez copies

\"We’ve determined that a crack will be out for this method of activation within one week after RTM, but this is not to stop those guys\"

- We arent targeting the mass warez copies

???

also, Microsoft forgets that the only reason it became popular in the first place, is because of piracy.. everyone ive ever known started on dos or win 3.x with a friend\'s copy. Havent they got enough money? do they really need to screw copies down to 1 copy - 1 comp?

lastly, whatever happened to the actual meaning of a software licence agreement? Licences always meant that the person buys a licence to use the software, not the actual software..
Its perfectly legal to install a program on two machines, as long as only one copy of the program is open at a time. Microsoft are now stopping this.

Bill Gates is treading dangerous Constitutional waters.

Regarding the Argument:
"If you dont like this (forced registration, snooping in your PC) then don't buy XP. Simple".

That argument holds water if there's a choice of OS's to choose from.
Yes, there is a choice for tekkys (Linux, Unix, BeOS ?).
But Joe 6Pak (tens and tens of millions in number, the overwhelming bulk of MS customers) only knows how to use MS WindowsOS. (Barely).
Where does he go to excercise his freedom-of-choice in OS's? No where.
For the average guy who only knows Windows, there is no possibility for him to follow the facetious Advice ("You dont like it? -- dont buy XP. Simple.").
And, this XP thing is just the beginning. All future Windows OS's will have it.

MS is herding us all into a forced-registration corral.
And in the process, invading our privacy -- our personal PC where we keep tons of personal info.
I accept their word ("we won't pry while we're there -- we're just checking the ID #") like I accept a shark's word.
It's sad to see some tekkys here going along quietly ("It's just a minor inconvenience").
That's the way Freedom-of-Choice goes down the tubes. And with it, our Personal Privacy regarding our "personal papers and effects".

The Founding Fathers were so paranoid about citizens' "personal privacy" -- one of very first things they put in US Constitution 200 years ago was a Clause prohibiting "illegal search or seizure of personal papers and effects".
Your personal computer (your PC) has become today, what your desk in your home was 200 years ago -- the repository of your "personal papers and effects".
Yes, Bill Gates is treading dangerous Constitutional waters.

#40: TwoFer
I wasn't sure, that's why I put the (?). Sorry for mixup.

Originally Posted by mrf582
Ok in the previous posts people said that XP can be \'authenticated\' by internet or if you don\'t have the internet by phone.

--May or may not be true---
XP checks some hardware stuff and does other things to make your system kind of unique and therefore the key will only work on one system
------------------------

Now If i don\'t have internet and I call up MS and get XP install finished how are they going to know that my system is unique... what if reinstall several times a day? what if i go around my neighborhood instally XP for everybody by calling up MS and saying oh i don\'t have internet can you authenticate me.

So this scheme of authentication doesn\'t seem to work.

Am i misunderstanding anything??

-Shinde

You make some good points TwoFer.. I don't agree with the whole privacy issue though... but that's a personal thing

I run NT on my main work desktop, and I get by ok..

Office 2000, mail clients, and even games run great.. and I love the low memory usage... The only app that comes to mind that requires Win 2000 is Exchange 2000, but Outlook 2000 runs on any MS o/s, so that shouldn't trouble the clients much...

Product activation aside, XP is a great product (so far).. I can't wait to have the release build...

If the product activation forces people to 'nix. Good. The more people using Linux, the faster it will become "mainstream".

Personally I haven't had time to play with Linux, even though I have 3 different flavours at home..., so I can't comment on it. Seems to have a reliqious following, so it must have some merits...

I would think that piracy of Windows has helped MS a bit... Joe Sixpack goes to his neighbours house, neighbour has "hacked" copy of Win2000, Joe loves the look and feel of 2000, but feels morally obliged to purchase a legit copy...

or , I only buy one copy of NT, but install it on every PC in my office, a potential client asks me what I run here at the office, I reply that "we're all NT here", its an endorsement of sorts..

anyways, my .02

EP

Originally Posted by mctwin2kman
Azonic,

I have one of those keys in my registry but not both. I just have the HardWare ID. I have Win2K Pro and IE 6 Public Beta Preview. So now I wonder what the hell is going on. But I would think that MS is not just going to add Product Activation on the fly to Win2K. I am sure that would break some sort of law, I mean can you just change that without everyone knowing. It is one thing to add activation to a new OS, but to add it to an already running OS, that people have paid for. That is just plain underhanded. Maybe the keys exist because IE 6.0 is going to be in XP, and that is part of it. I bet it will be useles in 2K, but still will be there. That truly is an invasion when it is added on the fly. Personally I think MS is playing with fire to much with the Justice Department, I mean come on, you can\'t even get MediaPlayer 8.0 unless you buy XP. Not that I care but that has got to send red flags up at the DOJ...

in case you can't read the path.. here it is. fixed.

\\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\MSLicensing

lol, nice job Jer.... my \\ got striped by the comment engine. hopefully you guys can make out the registry path with out the slashes :)

Those of you that think "oh, screw XP, i'll just stick with win2k and avoid this whole mess." may have a surprise coming.. It's looking like MS is laying the groundwork to update win2k to support the same registration process. After installing the IE 6 preview, I had the following registry key added to my win2k pro box here at work.

\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MSLicensing

within this are 2 keys.. HardwareID and Store.
under the HardwareID key is a ClientHWID binary value entry, containing what i'll assume is a hash of my systems hardware.

Under the Store key, is another key named LICENSE000 which contains 4 binary values named the following: ClientLicense, CompanyName, LicenseScope, and ProductID.

Make of this what you will, but I wouldn't be surprised to see MS start sneaking code like this in through hotfixes and service packs... It may become pretty hard to avoid their licensing scheme.

I wasn't pleased at all to find out that IE6 had added this crap to my system. I guess that's what I get for riding the bleeding edge, but it seems extremely low for stuff like this to be hidden in with another product. Perhaps IE6 requires these entries? But even if that's the case, I still don't like it.

- Az

whoa! does anyone remember lotus123? remember the copy protections they tried using with it?

if you make software to hard to use, people wont use it...

wheres lotus123 now?

elmopuddy and dissonance -- I'd agree with you, if there were really a choice. But I pretty much have to run Microsoft OSes, because I'm a consultant and all my DOD/aerospace clients run MS Office and other apps which are basically MS-platform dependent. In order to reliably exchange information (which includes engineering tools written in these MS-only apps), I have to be 100% compatibile.

I'd be happy to keep on running W2K, just as I was happy with NT4 -- but MS obsoletes their OSes pretty quickly, and their own and others' apps written for the new OS don't work properly with the old ones... and most of my clients do upgrade routinely.

And did you say StarOffice? MS keeps changing file formats and internal workings faster than the competition can generate file-compatible apps. And BTW, I've never seen any app properly translate a heavily-formatted Word document, in either direction: there are always weirdnesses. And my customers often dictate the detailed format of my reports and proposals (basically, because the gov does it to them) -- they won't accept something they have to rework to be able to read and pass on.

Or did you say WINE? Not everything runs under WINE -- and some of my data-analysis routines take many hours to run a single iteration, using most if not all of the resources of a single box while doing it. That's why I run fast dual-proc machines -- and why I can't really afford to slow 'em down with an emulation layer, and especially why I can't afford crashes due to incompatibilites -- a single crash at the wrong time can literally cost me hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of time. (This is also why I'm reluctant to upgrade for mere bells 'n whistles.)

So I really don't have a choice: for my business, I have to run MS apps. And I truly resent the way Microsoft is leveraging their monopoly market position -- they're invading my privacy and shoving me around.

I agree with dissonance...

I couldn't care less if MS know what hardware I am running, or software for that matter...

it seems the people that are the most pissed off about this are the people that weren't planning on buying it anyways..

Personally I find all the conspiracy theories amusing, but hey, to each his own, no one is forcing you to buy XP... Linux is still free, along with a bunch of other OS's

And ya, nothing is unhackable...

Let the flames begin.. (I like XP)..

I've been running Beta 2 for a little while now, hasn't crashed yet, and I haven't had any compatibility probs either... I am amazed at how stable it is... (I remember Beta 2 of NT5, it would hardly install correctly, let alone run)

But then again, I have my MCSE "secret" decoder ring, along with a list of code phrases and keystrokes, so I don't have to use the product activation... So XP will for sure work great for me ;)

peace

EP

AG35 - right on! I've used linux since 95 on/off, and OS/2 warp before win95 even came out! - I've been waiting patiently for M$'s user base to get feed-up. Looks like my prayers may finally be answered ;-).

Gerbil #35 -- either you seriously misunderstood what I said, or I've misunderstood what you said.

31: Forge. "Welcome to Vietnam online".
Right on buddy! I've never gone 'guerrilla warfare" route before, never cracked anyone's stuff, but this copy protection thingy is MS declaration of war on me, no matter what their market weasels claim to contrary.
They're not worried about Daddy letting Janey use his copy of XP for her schoolwork -- they want to get into our PC's and sniff around. Well, they're not going to succeed with this PC user.
Fellow guerrillas, bring on the Cracks!

#4:
And who is www.citrix.com ? I don't know them from a hole in the wall. Couldn't care less that MS is using "same scheme" they're using because as far as I know I don't and never have used anything they're selling.
But what I DO care about is the OS I am using which is sold by a world-monopolpy: Microsoft Windows OS.
That OS, sold by that company, I HAVE to use. A big difference, #4. So, I'm not going to "relax".
I'm not gonna use WinXP. And if I ever do, I'll get a crack.

I wonder how much the phone operators cost MS?

Originally Posted by dissonance
I defend a company\'s rights to protect its products. Simple.

If you don\'t want XP, don\'t buy it. Activation/authentication is the price of admission, if it\'s too high for you then don\'t buy into it.

I have a grocery card that gets me discounts and automatic coupons at the local grocery chain. Combined with paying by credit card, they essentially know all the groceries I\'ve bought at that store, when I\'ve bought them, and how much I\'ve paid.

Is that an invasion of privacy? Probably, on some level, but it\'s worth the price of admission because I could care less who knows what I eat, or how much, and this saves me time, effort, and money. Yeah, so they know my name, and that I bought broccili last week, on sale to boot. Big deal, I somehow manage to accept that and don\'t feel incredibly violated. Maybe it\'s just me though. I feel the same way about my computer, I could care less who knows what hardware I\'m running, but maybe I\'m naive, or maybe I have more important things to worry about.

As for asking you to go online and register after a reformat, look at the thread. There is a 30 day grace period, during which XP will hound you to activate, but will still let you use the OS - so you can get online. You don\'t want to make a phone call, connect to the internet, and as was said somewhere in these comments, in the time it took you to read the story, you\'d be activated.

Dissonance this is Tech Report website. I can't believe you of all people would defend this outrageous "forced registration": this "copy-pro" requirement.

It won't stop thieves, they'll have an XP-crack on Day One.
Just like gun laws don't stop gun crimes (the crooks just have to pay a little more for them under the counter).

This forced registration outrages me, Joe 6-Pak. I hate registering things.
They then, have your name, damn it -- and I don't like that.
I like my privacy.
The more they violate it, the crankier I get about it. It's why my folks came to this country 150 years ago.
They didn't like snoopers snooping around, recording their names and whereabouts.

Also, it screws me, in another way.
My PC crashes. It's now Belly up. I format h/d. I go to install XP -- and message tells me "go Online" !!
(I ain't online, because I can't get Online, because I ain'tI got no ----- PC, dammit!!)

Then, I should just "call on the Phone"?
If you think Dissonance, I'm gonna obediently meekly call their Phone # (which "might" be toll-free now but you can bet yer butt will be toll-call eventually) --- just to get their "official consent" to re-install the OS, that I paid those leeches a good-size bundle for --- than Dissonance, you better think again.

I'm disappointed, reading your meek acceptance of this outrageous violation of our Privacy, and of this MS attempt to abrogate our Freedom of choice as to wether or not we shall Register the product we paid cash for.

When I look at those two "Violations" against me -- and then TwoFer (?) comes along and gives the "intellectual property rights" argument (i.e. that I should accept those two violations against me -- for sake of protecting Billionaire Bill Gate's "Intellectual property rights") then I reply "Bill Gates can take his Win-Xp and stuff it".

And, if I ever DO someday get it, it will be with an XP-crack.
Something I have never done before with any software.
And they'll be tons more people like me. Enforcing XP copy-pro will be like enforcing Prohibition. Everybody got their booze, and everyone will have an XP-crack.

All Bill will accomplish, with this hare-brained scheme (to get into our PC's and "kinda innocently snoop around") will be to turn millions of law-abiding WinXP users, into millions of law-abiding WinXP users who have an XP-crack.
(It will be available everywhere, everyplace you can think of -- on and off the Net).
Just as Prohibition was unenforcable -- so is Bill's CopyPro.

John Dvorak is right. Here's the rough essence of a remark he made in his collumn:
WinXP copy-pro scheme might not be --- but, it could be --- the first step down the slippery slope to ruination of a once great Company.

#32, we HAVE a choice. Stick with W2K and put pressure on hardware vendors to better support the OS. There is also the option of Mandrake 8.0 + WINE/XWINE... I am hoping to pick up up a copy of Mandrake 8.0 this weekend in fact (downloaded their ISO for the last couple, figure the deserve some cash)..

Linux is getting closer and closer to desktop use. Microsoft is getting more and more abhorrent as Balmer asserts his vision of the company. Be interesting to see when critical mass hits. Either Linux is going to explode or Gates is going to bitch-slap Balmer for running his baby down.

Originally Posted by ---K
AG#32 by accident