It's like Time Travel!

I love commenting on old articles. Hi.

For the guy that was looking for sopwith 5 years ago, it's now available under GNU:
http://sopwith.classicgaming.gamespy.com/

:)

Thinking Different doesn't necessarily mean Thinking better.

Here's my beef with the rotten Apples..

1. They are to heavy. Too much stupid "pretty" hard plastic. Instead of handles, they should make them with WHEELS!

2. There are too many points of failure (design flaws). What if your cat chews through you USB Cable? There goes your mouse and keyboard. And what if you had a CD in the drive without a button? Now you have to pry open the stupid cd bay cover with a nail file to get to the eject button which shouldnt be covered in the first place. Speaking of cats and mice. Wouldn't it be nice to have a wheel on your mouse? (and yes it's also a THIRD button!). I guess mac users aren't as dexterous, or they wear mittens when using their computers.

3. I don't need my computer to be pretty, i need it to be functional. I have seen the Mac "Finder" crash follwed by the black bomb too many times to think MacOS is a reliable system. HMMMM I GUESS THATS WHY OS X IS LINUX BASED. And as far as looks go, check out http://www.FrozenCPU.com. Thats real innovation. Not like the stupid plasitc speaker cover you get with G4's.

4. Scalability, Security, Networking Abilty, Cost Effectiveness and yes Performace. Open Architecture PC's got Proprietary Mac's beat. Know wonder why they own the market.

Once thing I did adopt form the MAC world...I now locate my recycle bin on the lower right corner of my screen. OH yeah, I also don't bother pressing the button on my CD-ROM anymore. I just RIGHT CLICK and choose eject. I wish I had a button on my keyboard which did that...OH WAIT... I DO! It's called programmable easy access keyboards.

P.S. did you know that in the 80's when apple inc. was going chapter 11, Bill Gates gave the company money so they could stay afloat, thereby saving Microsoft the hassle of being considered a monopoly?.. (well for a few years anyway). If they would have used that money to diversify and become competitve..well who knows.

Wow. Scott is a real asshole. I feel the condescension dripping from his articles. If this site wants people to view it as credible, it could at least attempt to appear impartial.

553 I bet u dual AMD atlon 1.733ghz (2100+mp) will kill your lowly g4 dual 800mhz system too shit and and will cost so much less i $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Apple gave us firewire(400mbits) and intel and others are giving us ubs 2.0(480mbits)and it is free now in mostly all new motherboard
u gotta pay for firewire

look if mac freaks are soo prould of what your mac's look like more that the speed u are getting for your money u are all lamers
What the case looks like don't mean shit i have a nice plain case with good hardware u mac lover get a nice flamable case and shit for hardware and hell mac hardware is from the pc example pci bus ,agp bus, ddr sdram

look if mac fraks are soo prould of what your mac's look like more that the speed u are getting for your money u are all lamers
What the case looks like don't mean shit i have a nice plain case with good hardware u mac lover get a nice flamable case and shit for hardware and hell mac hardware is from the pc example pci bus ,agp bus, ddr sdram

my pc don't crash i run win98se i can run it as a server and run games and appz and don't have too reboot it once u gotta play with a few setting so windows don't suck ever drop of your memory and hell if my i want too reboot my computer it takes 30 second from the bois post too windows is load so hell let it bug out i can reboot and start of were i left off faster that most people take too boot there system (*mac or pc)

Ok let me make my 2 cents worth
2 1/2 years ago my school bought mac g3 350
96mb of sdram 6gig hard drive 4meg ATi rage2c vc 17'' big blue colored mointor ingrated sound and of corse the had too buy a superdisk 120mb drive because 3 1/2 inch drives are sooo obcelete and mac's don't put them in there and so they spent 100+ dollars for what was need was a damn old 8 dollar floopy they paid $2500 canadain and it couldn't play hardly any games unless they were fps that use open gl the api in mac's i think it called Rage api (pc is DirectX ) was so damn buggie and still somewhat buggie

HERE my point when i bought my computer a pc of course i paid 1500 bucks canadain of the over that year when that mac was bough i have a intel celron 366 oc too 550mhz on a 100mhz bus a ati radeon 32 ddr ,320 mb sdram ,20gig westren digtail (7200rpm)hard drive ,sblive value sound card,cdrw 12x10x32, 48x cdrom ,and a tyan trinty 371 (intel 440 bx chipset) mother board and a 17" sceptre dragon eye montior that beat the crap out the big blue montior on that mac and i can run ever game i wanted (fps,roleplaying,war games)without a problem and that mac had less hardware but cost 1000+ more couldn't do for shit because mac can't do it multitasking for shit try playing a game in full screen in like quake 3 then minamize it go on the net and burn a cd `at the same time with everyting goin mac will choke with my lowly celron can do it with still runs smooth

and another thing u can run every os win 95 too xp on all pc's ..!!! mac's can't look at all u fools that bought though 10000 dollar power pc's it i had that much too spend on a pc 2 year ago i still have a great system not the best but it would run everything and if microshaft came out with a new os i don't really haft too worrie is it goin too woRK

i know computers are not just for games but hell it better on a pc that a ps2 or xbox or u one button mac lovers

Tasmanian devils are not extinct. Tasmanian WOLFs are extinct.

Macs suck.

I kind of like lesbians.

I cannot believe this. In the space of a few minutes, I have seen no less than three Tech Report discussion boards devoted to platform arguments. Who cares? It seems that everyone is too busy arguing about whose toy is best to actually do anything constructive. Perhaps it would be a good idea to get all this PC stuff in perspective:

Most people use PCs to do something in day-to-day life that would otherwise be a chore. It could be touching up a photograph in Photoshop, or crunching numbers in Excel (personally, I use mine for Matlab - a truly amazing piece of software). If your PC does that with a minimum of fuss, that is really enough.

I work as a PC technician (the guy with the screw-driver and volt-meter), network and server administrator part-time, to make ends meet. I am studying electrical engineering, and had hardly used PCs before starting my degree. Surely it is a testament to the simplicity and power of ALL these PCs that I could learn how they work, what bits should go where, and the ins-and-outs of Windows, Solaris and the MacOS in the space of a couple of years. I was blown away by how easy it is to set up and programme these toys: Intel, MS, Apple and Sun have done a fantastic job to make things so easy for everybody.

I am happy to say that I came into the broiling, seething and hate-filled world of PCs (and low-end workstations) with no prior bias, and I can see hardly any difference between any of them. Sure, some OSs look nicer, different machines are slightly faster at doing some things - but remember, we are only talking about seconds here people.

The one thing that has struck me the most is the difference between the users of PC platforms (which are far more profound than the differences between the machines themselves). I support Windows users and Mac users, ranging from university students to IT managers. The Mac users tend to be the designers and artists, the Windows users tend to be the bean-counters, middle managers and nerds.

The latter category are the most difficult to deal with: they won't let me help them because they insist that they know more than I do. They laugh at me and heap abuse on me if I start talking about Apples, unless I am expressing a hatred of the Mac platform. They spend a lot of time playing video games, and seem to want the newest, best and fastest hardware so that they can play the latest games better than the nerd down the hall.

Computers are an end in themselves for these people - something to lust after if one has "sub-standard" technology, or crow about if the latest machine is sitting on one's desk, brimming over with GHz and the most desirable acronyms.

I have also come across one or two Mac nerds, who are passionate advocates of their platforms. Needless to say, their arguments are lost on me. However, they are usually funny, quirky and generally pleasant, not at all like the Windows nerds.

Those that are like the Windows nerds seem to be the ones posting on this board - I have never seen so much abuse thrown over something so trivial. Why can't these boards be used to talk about bugs and possible uses for the newest IC technology? That is what I thought this site was about.

I am very sorry if I have offended anybody, I am unreasonably angry. I suppose that I should keep my beak out of these debates. I am also sorry about the anonymous post. Actually, if you'd like to contact me to personally refute anything I have said, please mail me: willrali@graffiti.net.

Oh, and I forgot to say he uses my PC more than his own Mac.

Damn, this thread isn't gonna die soon.

I have a friend that has a G4 Tower 800Mhz. He is staying with me temporarily, until he gets his job in graphic design- just got out of school. He has been convinced that the MAC is the end all desktop computer in his industry. Funny how my "slow" PC can run Photoshop 6.0, Illustrator 10, and encode Mp3s at the same and his "great" Mac can't seem to run smoothly with these two programs competing for resources on OSX. I have a 2.0 GHz P4 (not the fastest X86, I will admit AMD envy), with an ATI Dual monitor Card, 512 MB RDRAM, 120GXP 60GB Hard drive, two 15 inch LCD monitors, SB live, Firewire, USB. You can run P-shop in one screen, Illustrator in the other, dragging files all over the place and all this still cost less than his under-equipped Mac with half the storage and half the memory.

It's great when you can make simple upgrades for little money, and do it yourself! If you go to Dell's site and Apple's site and equip to computers with equivalent features, the Apple cost way more, not to mention you can build a better-than-dell Pc yourself for less.

What's with moving programs on a mac disk? Does that show any performance increase like Windows Defrag?

Originally Posted by maestri
#534 == Was the whole movie made on a mac, or just parts... I\'ve seen a lot of adds for things that are done on certain systems, software, or hardware.. but only one small aspect was done.... <p> just curious.<p> Maestri

Hello. My name is Filipe Tomaz. I read the porotuner article about the GeForce modification. I did it and it is good ! If you want, in my page is a copy of porotuner article (there is no update for about 1 year, I'm afraid that the page will end) and my modification is different from those presented. The page is:

http://w3.ualg.pt/~ftomaz/nvidia/nvidia.html

I switched to Macintosh back in '94 when I noticed that System 7 was so much smoother and well behaved than Windows 3.1. In that year I was among the first on board with the original PowerPC, 66MHz, complete with NuBus interface...

Then I noted the advent of Windows 95, and worked with this operating system since 1996 at my work (a major defense contractor). This version of Windows addressed many of the refinement issues: Mac Finder-like functionality with OS level file-search function, long file names (heck, even longer than Mac!), icon based everything, even a trash can on the desktop. Heck, for that matter, a genuine desktop!
All that comes from Mac.
But you know that.

I use Windows 2000 at work and I contend with the following Microsoft kludges on a regular basis: system-halting dialogue boxes demanding attention from underneath the active window (not on top, where they should appear).... active windows created with controls outside my active mouse range.....Annoying forgetfulness of apps (particularly Microsoft apps) with regard to performing repeated searches to specific directories (and no, "My Documents" doesn't count).....non-standard location of Windows app primary file functions (inconsistent menuing)....and the latest crap: menu's that change according to what functions you have been using most recently? C'mon! The user interface needs to be CONSISTENT!!!

Regarding the delivery of Mac OS X - you have a slightly revised set of rules for software form/function (the new Aqua interface), with great pain being taken to have this new standard be a significant and (r)evolutionary step beyond OS 9.

I like not re-booting for weeks. I like watching multiple programs starta up simultaneously in the background while enjoying undisturbed and serene control of my foremost application. That doesn't routinely happen to me with Windows.

Sorry about the folks on this forum stating that Macs are behind on networking....I guess you all Certified MS technicians! You would be surprized how many of our IS department folk are Mac users! If a mac sees another computer on it's network guess what happens? An icon appears for that computer. How much easier does it get?

Windows executes legacy DOS apps using the appropriate emulators. And I watch some of our company's legacy software work inside the old DOS engine....any one of these kludgey old programs can actually bring down the whole OS! With Mac, OS9 programs running under OS X can only affect other programs under the classic (OS9) environment. OS X programs aren't affected. Nice if you can port your mainstay apps (productivity/communications) to the UNIX level strength of OS X. And there are 15,000 programs already available for OS X.

Stability? Once every month or two I might do something stupid like unplug a live Firewire drive before the disk is dismounted....now THAT will bring down OS X, I assure you! But other than that, I currently enjoy one slick OS: powerful, multitasking, smooth, well behaved. And all on a retro model graphite iBook with 466MHz G3 and 320MB RAM.

Regarding upgrades: The vast majority of computer users would no sooner upgrade their computer than upgrade their car. How many people do you know that turbocharge their engine? Or swap out their V6 for a V8? Not many. I'll take the organic wholeness of the Mac. Not the pieced together feel of some basement project, or Michael Dell's latest "surfer elf offerings."

Oh, one last thing. I have read many of the posts on this forum. What's the beef with Photoshop? You have to be crazy to think that Adobe would ignore the most populous platform on the planet. The PC version of Photoshop is fine tuned for that platform. It just so happens that Photoshop is EXTREMELY processor intensive, and makes an easy method for comparing platforms and processors. And still Mac excels, depite it's lowly 133MHz bus...

Most of my friends admit they want PC's because they can get their hands on cheap or FREE software (from their software network) and because of the simple inertia of PC's all around. 95% is a staggering majority. I remain a Mac user because of how slick the entire package is. The wholeness. The unified combination of hardware and software. Plus two years after I buy it it's still worth 50% of what I paid for it on ebay.

Hope this helps you understand Mac.

Let me said:

1.- DLL Hell?, Windows XP is much better in this point.
2.- What's the idea of moving apps. on the same disk?
3.- I have a computer with: DOS 6.20, Windows 95b, Windows 98 and Windows XP.
4.- Windows XP can do that and driver roll back too.
5.- Everybody knows the much better network performance in W2K and XP over MAC,
6.- PLEASE, don't lie. Look again to XP, you love it.
7.- I turn on my computer at morning, I tun off at night, no reboots.

Quality components?, look a 850GB motherboard from Intel.

And, Windows 2000 64 bits is at the coner, can you talk about this in MAC?

I think different, from you.

Within your petty fouram you have left out a number of other computer makers which will kik the ass of MAC's and PC's. How about SUN!!!! You don't see too many people doing benchmark comparrisents against the Ultra Spark III. Apple had the processor listed there in their megahertz myth but there was no spasific facts or benchmarking against the Ultra Spark III. I am a die hard mac person but I also think there is better than the mac. But for value for money and ease of use etc. the mac is the only way to go. It seems that within this forum the PC person won't see past the PC platform because like a tipical PC user they don't think Different and their narrow minds can't see that UNIX and other platforms is where all their PC junk filters down form. Some one like Apple will develope FireWire and all the PC users will take the credit away from apple and clame they pioneered firewire. Also on the Apple side of the forum it seems that the apple fan's won't see past apple. This is my two bob for now.

Originally Posted by patrickarnold
To all Window tech folks, it\'s not you, it\'s not your creative skills in building the fastest most powerful kickass piece of computational hardware, it\'s the system. Apple realized in the early days, that there is no way it was going to beat Big Blue at the game it (IBM) pretty much invented. But then along came a bunch of VERY GOOD licensing attorneys from a small company called Microsoft. Things changed. Apple had to do something to keep Microsoft at bay. They saw what was happening to IBM\'s OS2. They saw how IBM had gotten boxed in by these folks. Amazingly, they were being told what to do by this little snot nosed kid! Jobs wasn\'t about to let that happen to his company. The fact is of course, that they would still have to deal with Microsoft, because \"Everybody\" uses Office. But even still, Apple is one of a very short list of computer platforms that you can use without using Microsoft software unless you freely choose to.

The only way Apple would ever hope to survive would be to control the entire user experience with their computer. So how do you control the entire user experience? You control all the parts. The hardware and the software. You manufacture everything and the stuff you can\'t , you contract with a very select group of companies that share your vision. Sometimes these partners have problems, they can\'t jump that next technical hurdle. You find ways of helping or you find other partners. It\'s business. And you have to conduct this business in numbers that can support thousands of people and their families.

You can be rest assured that deep in the closets at Apple (and IBM and Motorola and Compaq and so on) that there is a computer that screams past everything. But, can you build it? No. At least, not yet. Remember, airbags were first delivered in Cadillacs and then in Escorts. My company paid $10,000 for a CD-R burner 8 years ago and now they are built-in to almost everything!

Hardware is hardware. Software is a connection. It\'s a connection to the user. Be very careful how you tread here. You are touching things inside a person. You mess up there and they will hate you forever. Designers of hardware are rarely very good at designing software. It\'s a physical response versus a mental response from the end user. Many people succumb to using tools that may not be the best or the most intuitive or the prettiest or whatever if they feel that they have no choice, like when their employer tells them that \"...this is the stuff you will use.\" Apple has made the decision to always strive to give people choices. When people feel they have choices, they are much more open to new ideas. When things are restricted, innovation suffers.

The \"Think Different\" idea extents to you, too.

I also have to add, not out of sheer spite, that all this talk about real world performance is all out of place.

How many of us use photoshop. How many run 15 applications at the same time. How many do not have a second to spare. The mac platform is successful because people do not waste their time rebooting their computers and they do not have to deal with 'plug and pray' as on pcs. Granted this is not the pcs manufacturers fault, but i think they gave M$ the room to do what it wanted (Think IBM) and they should suffer for it. Not least because i am not a M$ fan.

If i buy a computer to browse the internet and OCCASIONALLY run photoshop to just play around with my family photos, it is good enough for me for my mac to be 10% faster or slower than a pc, but not for it to crash twice everyday. Tha makes me unhappy and more willing to buy a mac.

I hope some of you have the stomach to go to the apple website and see what you are missing.

Just forget this flaming and jump on the site and see what macs are about. No nonsense computing, to shortcuts. Engineering at its best there. And the cool shapes and all of the Macs. Face it. Four years ago, all pcs were beige. Then came the imac, the G3 and the ibook. Then two more years ad we are starting to see a semblence of aesthetics from pc people. Apple innovates. They have the superdrive standard on some systems. The have dvd creation software on all macs. Who doesn't want a digital camera soon. Apple KNOWS that already.

Do you want more. I will give you more. Apple gave us firewire. They have an OS that uses the best of both worlds. Unix for stability and the traditional Mac GUI, with major improvements ad that looks better than Windows XP. I think this is not a matter of opinion anymore. Aqua rocks. They have the titanium Powerbook now and the snow white ibook. Soon pcs will go colorful and then go snow white like the ibook.

Do you still want to know more. Then go to the Apple site. Go through it well and slowly. Soon all the games available will be released for macs. Plus there are some dedicated mac games also. Apple has 5% of the market share in pcs now. That is big for a single company.

I do have one small beef with apple though. They should allow more companies tp make mac clones and we will see IBM and Motorola really compete to produce the better chips.

Asides that, aple rocks. And apple is here to stay.

Hello, I am new here, but as a certified PC builder and computer user/hobbyist, I feel the need to throw my two cents.
I have been building PCs for 4 years and while this may bias my outlook on computers a little, it does not change the way I view ignorance. I have never encountered ANYONE that denied raw data and truth like a Mac lover. Recently, I had the misfortune of being caught up in the Apple/Wintel war with a quiet, pretty graphic designer. After trying for 30 minutes to explain how computer performance depends on many, many factors, and that no one PC could be effectively compared to an Apple - she was ready to tear my nuts off!! I tried explaining bottlenecks like system bus, RAM speed, video performance, and hard drive performance - she wouldn't hear of it. To her, Apples were THE best machine because she worked in a graphic design dept., and the boss (supposedly wildly successful in his trade) swore up and down that Apples kicked the shit out of any PC in graphic design (Photoshop of course, notice a theme with Apple users?). When I asked her about her PC experience, she admitted that she had started hating PCs back in the Windows 3.1 days.
MY TAKE: I think it is plain evil that there is a proliferation of econo-PCs on the market that give/gave Wintel a bad name. I build good PCs. They are faster than *ANY* Dell, Compaq, or Gateway piece of crap, and from what I have seen, they are faster than any Apples. This girl claimed that PCs lock a hundred times more than an Apple. My PCs don't ever lock-up, and that sometimes includes WEEKS of uptime (mostly 440BX based board systems - what a wonderful chipset!) I challenged this graphic designer to come and see a (real) PC (A real PC being my recent Athlon 1.4/266fsb 512MB PC2100 DDRAM Radeon 64MB DDR and dual Maxtor 7200RPM drives on RAID 0 - with Photoshop, of course!), but she didn't want to because she was already disgusted with the HPs and Compaqs she had seen, and I didn't blame her. What do you expect when you pair a 1.2 gHz P4 with a 5400 RPM 512K cache hard drive and a 4MB onboard video subsystem like HP or Compaq and push it as the 'newest' PC? It plain sickens me and makes my headache because it is all about ripping off Joe Sixpack.
In the end, my graphic designer friend told me she was even more determined to drop $4000 on a new Apple because one more person had tried to tell her it was a sad waste of money
(My rig came in at less than $1000). The funny thing was, I had only tried to explain how subsystem and component quality affect a computers' speed and can create bottlenecks that affect everyday use even with the fastest processor in the world.
Do Apple zealots even listen to facts?
In my experience, sadly, macolytes are brainwashed and tricked into buying their (outdated) computers by a combination of advertising trickery and truly crappy PCs from profit-minded manufactures. Oh, and let's not forget that they LOVE ignorance!

550 made most sense of any of these threads. .02

apple, windows, os2, freeBSD, red hat , Caldera, yellowDog, mandrake, VAX, WHATEVER!!
USE what you want , not what some DICK is telling you what you need Choose your own weapon of choice and make the best of it.
Damn People?

Originally Posted by fairfact
If mHz were the true indicator of computing power then why is it that Celeron and Duron processor-based PCs run considerably slower than their Pentium and Athlon machines running at the same clock rate?
Apple\'s use of Photoshop as the ultimate test of computing power, may be a bit contrived, but Jobs, et.al., are surely right on one point:

Unlike horsepower ratings for autos, mHz clock speeds are not a valid measure of computing performance, particularly when comparing different types of processors and computing structures, e.g. CISC (Intel) and RISC (PowerPC)

I actually have to agree with poster #555 (except for the personal insults); while I appreciate the support, any Mac users (or PC users for that matter) should at least scan through the earlier posts before posting their own defense/attack. (Not saying they should read every single post--that would take forever--but at least get a general feel for some of the topics which have been hashed over).

Also, I invite any PC folk to re-visit the shootout charts; I think you'll find that I've done a very careful and reasonably even-handed re-evaluation of *all* of the comparisons:

http://www.aapltalk.com/shootouts

I also feel that, imperfect as my methods may be, these comparisons do raise some very valid points about the relative merits of raw numbers versus the "whole package". My major point has never been to "prove" that a particular processor is faster than another (that's what sites like the Tech Report are about); my point is that there are dozens of things to consider when buying a new system, ranging from raw number stats to less "measurable" concepts.

--Charles Gaba aka BlueDjinn
Webmaster, AAPLTalk.com

#553 aren't you the fast one, huh ? Read the whole thread before you state what has been said a thousand times already in this thread, you stupid moron.