Hmmm....how many of you people here complaining about ATI's blunder have bought an nVidia product?

Seems like a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black here...

The people commonly refered to as nVidiots ruch out to buy the latest, greatest (read: mostly hype) product of nVidia's 6 month product cycle. Heck, every driver release that nVidia releases fixes one problem, but creates another, So how can you bash ATI's driver support when nVidia's is no better. Quality vs Quantity. How many sets of drivers are there for the GF3? How many bugs do they still have?

Then there was the mysterious '50%' increase in performance brought forth by the release of a certain detonator driver, which coincidently appear at the same time as the GF3-killing ATI 8500.

And then, there is the upcoming GF4 MX series. Hmm, lets see. The average user who doesn't really pay attention is going to buy a GF4 MX with a neutered memory architecture, when a GF3 Ti 200 would kick its a$$...

As far as I can tell, this is the first blunder that ATI has really slipped up on, and you guys jump all over them, like they are the problem here. Yet many of you have willingly, time and time again, gave your money to nVidia, who continually pull the wool over the consumers eyes...

But what do I know, I am still enjoying my Voodoo 5....and I bet I am having just as much fun as the next yuppie who spent in excess of $500-$600 dollars on nVidia's latest overclocked incarnation of their last product....

#59

No, nVidia did not effectively buy 100% of 3dfx. If they did, Voodoo users wouldn't have any problem launching and winning a class action suite forcing nVidia to support us. Instead, because 3dfx does actually still exist, nVidia chooses to wash their hands of everything voodoo, and attempt to burry anything that remotely resembles 3dfx....oh, except the famed RGSS FSAA that is still better on a Voodoo 5 then anything including the GF3 Ti 500....

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame nVidia for this. Cut throat business out there, and 3dfx didn't seemed to care what happened to us faithfull Voodoo users. . .In a way, it was actually 3dfx that sold us out, and nVidia made a smart business move, no matter how dirty I think it was...

Did ATI stop supporting FireGL customers upon acquiring the company? Same goes for S3 and VIA....

All in all, I am only trying to say that it is hard to get mad at ATI for this and not getting mad at nVidia for their corporate tactics....

After reading all the conflict and confusion between ATI's Real Clock Speed and OEM Box...I get MAD and I written E-mail Enquiry to ATI to ask "Which OEM is making Radeon 8500 Card with 275 Mhz Clock Speed"... Below is there answer what they replied me...
===========================================
Dear KINTESH PATEL,

Thank you for contacting ATI Customer Service Canada.

Please include the above identifier in all future correspondence
relating to this ticket. Note: The TicketGUID identifier must appear
in the message body, not in the subject line.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
None of our products are advertised or promoted as having a specific
clock speed. The features and specifications for the product list the
functions the product will perform not the clock rate it runs at. We do
not discuss clock speed of our products but we have achieved the target
clock speed for the our products.

With regard to performance, our retail package carries performance
charts and the product in the box will achieve that level of performance
with appropriate drivers and under the test conditions stipulated on the
product package.

ATI does make products for various markets with varying requirements
and price points. OEM and white box products come in many varieties and
one of the factors that may change is the internal speed of the
processor, TV out feature, memory capacity and upgradeability, driver features
and specifications, etc. If you want the performance listed on the
retail package, you must purchase the retail package.

Should you have any further questions, Please feel free to contact us.

Regards,

Kally Prassad
Customer Service Canada
ATI Technologies, Inc.

damn it, just bought an 8500 OEM.. crap.. and its clocked at :
229/229
WTF i got WORSE?

I have a new name for ATi. Mystory Box Men

money making opportunity AND get ATI back -

buy 10 retail cards from best buy and then buy 10 LE's from xyz online retailer. Return the retail boxes with the LE cards in them. Sell the retail cards on ebay for a profit of at least $20 - $30 a pop. I did it, worked like a charm AND I made $300 - enough to buy a gForce - HAHA - fucked ATI 2 times, and on their bill. that's what they get - they cheat me, I cheat them.

ati drivers maybe need some work, but gez, its not ati's fault u bought a 3rdparty radeon card, u should have asked more about it before u bought it.

i was also cheated, got a r7500 and its not the same as a retail boxed one, altho it was sold same as retail boxed part, i returned it, we all got shafted by ati that bought these cards.

Originally Posted by coldfish
I was cheated. I had a radeon 32MB DDR, loved it and decided to buy another ATI product.
Heard alot about lower clocked OEM cards so went off to get myself
one that was packed in ATI\'s original retail box.
Got the shock of my life when found out that it\'s actually clocked at 250/500!
ATI, guess what brand I\'ll buy from in future to replace this one? Or rather, what brand would I avoid in future?

ATI sucks... that's all there is to it. Their cards suck, their drivers suck, their developers suck, their support suck, and their user base consists of a bunch of cheap-ass 12-year olds. The only reason it sounds like half of you want them to stay alive is to keep nVidia's prices down. I saw a Radeon 8500 in Best Buy yesterday for $249. That's a significant chunk of change from something that you don't know completely what you're getting, clock-speed wise. I'd rather spend $100 more, and get a GeForce 3 Ti, and be able to run games at resolutions greater than 1280x1024... unlike ATI's "We're better than Nvidia tests," which were all 1024x768 and below. They don't realize that high-end comsume cards like the GeForce 2 Pro and above shine at HIGH resolutions, where hardcore gamers are at, not this 800x600 blocky-as-hell BS they they test at. To Hell with ATI.

I've been waiting a month and a half as well, and I they told me the cards won't ship until Mid-Dec, can you believe that. Dohhh, hopefully I will get mine before Christmas.

C'mon people let's be honest ATi right now has the best chip in the market and even better has the best price whar are we doing here let's hope that Ati stay alive, we need more competition, now that nvidias own 3Dfx.

Has anybody think that without 3Dfx Nvidia Could raise the prices even more, jus think what would happen if ATI go down.

I just buy the All in wonder radeon 7500, i wanted the 8500 but it was still in process to be developed. My radeon 7500 works great and it gives great dvd, and run the Half life really great and i'm it works better that my voodo4, so ATi lie big deal i still paid almost $200 less that if i had with buyed a voodo5.

So let's just hope that ATi improves his drivers, and gain honesty, but with the same prices.

I am not too sure that chinese translation really is good...

Marq

AG70
ever heard of http://babelfish.altavista.com ???
Worked fine on your link!

Oh and hey, Its REALLY FREEE

Whhooop

Marq

Hey guys, I found this chinese website (indicated at www.theinquirer.net

It has some photos about ansiotropic filtering (whatever)

Interestingly it compares a 8500LE with the competition (i.e. Nvidia's best)

So this gives a good indication of what to expect in terms of LE performance, I haven't read all of it yet (and my Chinese is BAD - i.e. non), so dunno about overclocking.

I have read from another place that the LE was easily o/c to 275, dunno if it can go higher.

Here's the link

http://www.gzeasy.com/nparticle.asp?aTitle=RADEON+8500LE%CF%D4%BF%A...

Hope it works, if not goto

www.gzeasy.com

U'll see the ATI article.

Marq

Originally Posted by legion88
#66,

Did you ever check to see if the 8500\'s nearly free anisotropic filtering isn\'t a mere LOD hack (i.e. raises the level of detail instead)?

As more people are buying the 8500, more people are now checking up on its allegedly free aniso filtering. I don\'t have the 8500 so I can\'t check it myself.

ATi tried to fool people with the Quake III scores. Now I guess some are wondering if there is more to this \"free\" aniso than meets the eye. No doubt, higher LOD can make things prettier.

Originally Posted by legion88
#58,

1. There\'s an uproar because HardOCP made a big deal of it last year.

2. One of their representatives posted (I don\'t remember where, I think it was Rage3D forum) that ATi\'s then-current plan was to sell OEMs and Retails at the same speed. In other words, they planned to do something different with the 8500. That, of course, did not happen. When that \"promise\" was made, the 8500 speed was supposed to be 250MHz. They didn\'t make the decision to go 275 yet.

YOU can use PowerStrip to make your 250 Mhz card become 275 Mhz one... It is so easy and if 275 cards cost $300, LE cost $200 (depends on manufacturer)

# 55, You are fool. Ati right now is the best, their chip's architecture is better than Nvidia's. So, Nvidia suxxxx.

listen i can understand people being upset by this, but

AG 62, don't insult our intelligence. It is not possible that you bought an actual Radeon 8500 and it turned out to be a 250/250 part. NO ONE has had this problem. you are a liar. liar liar liar.

AG 61, you're not really guilty of anything. and you're not a liar. unlike AG 61. BUT, the reason Nvidia hasn't had and never will have this problem is, Nvidia doesn't make a single card. not one. they design them. but you will never buy a card that nvidia actually made, even though nvidia manufactured the chips and was TOTALLY responsible for the board design. won't ever happen. ATi however, makes most of their cards, and hence opted, as they always do, to underclock their OEM/white box cards. since everyone got angry this time, they eventually rebranded the OEM cards as the 8500 LE.

i'm not saying people don't have a right to be annoyed. i used to own ATi stock but sold it after the 8500 release. but it wasn't because of this moronic fiasco. it was because they still don't have their driver team on proper footing. but some of what the posters on this thread are saying. JESUS. get a grip.

Originally Posted by Wazaa
at last here\'s ATI announcement

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/011029/292024_1.html

Originally Posted by Slat
Join the club :)

hay! i just buy one ATI Radeon 8500 retail box and found that it is also running at 250/250 !

give me back my money , ATI !

this card is very slow and got many problem on the drivers!

What a mess on ATi...

You can find several retail cards based under nvidia's TNT2 Ultra/GF2 MX/GTS/Pro/Ultra/GF2 Ti/GF3/GF3 Ti, most with different memory clock settings to nvidia's reference design, are we to blame nvidia? No, isn't nvidia who make most of these cards.

That's because of RAM bandwidth botteneck [b]wors/b] for misinformed users than merely clipping 25 MHz of an OEM card.

[quote]This is NOT something new so why the uproar! [/quote]

Probably because ATI finally produced a card that may be worth buying for a lot of people who previously only considered nVidia (or 3DFX when it was about).

Said people take a gander at ATI's marketing malpractices and start to think WTF?

Sure it's not new, but this time they had the attention of a new market, and they blew it.

Babelhuber - Nvidia owns all 3Dfx trademarks and brand names. They also own the chip designs all the rights to produce them. Nvidia did effectively buy 100% of 3dfx.

Some people just don't learn.. ATI have been producing under-clocked OEM cards since at least the Rage 128 range.. The original Radeon was the same.. 64Mb DDR VIVO OEM was clocked lower than the Retail cards.

This is NOT something new so why the uproar!

AG #48: the nvidia TNT case is was a few years ago, and they learned. all the chips are specified (the geforce 2 pro and gts have different costs, and nvidia wants them with 166/200MHz DDR, nothing else). letīs hope ATI is learning, too.

AG #47: nvidia didnīt buy 3DFx, they bought the patents and the developers, nothing more. they donīt produce 3DFx products, nor do they develop drivers. they donīt own the brand name.

Originally Posted by ---k
Last I heard Nvidia has about 100 Sun workstations doing driver QA simulations 24/7. I don\'t think anyone outside of the bluechip companies like IBM and Intel has that kind of dedication to driver development. Video card companies live and die by the quality of their drivers. I think ATI is starting to realize this and will hopefully kick it\'s QA dept into high gear.

ATI sucks, they need to go home or hire some real programmers and engineers to keep up with Nvidia :)

Unless otherwise specified, go with Nvidia